63 replies to this topic

[TechnoCrat]

Hi... Long time subscriber to this forum; first time participator in it! I want to know how to create a Recovery Partition with a System Image aka Windows Image with drivers and other settings installed.      

2nd Question:  I also want to know how to hide that Recovery Partition properly and forever. Like it shouldn't show up even if you Re-partition your harddisk like OEM pcs have it hidden!    
  
3rd Question: I also want to know how to stick that HOTKEY functionality forever like OEMs have even if you format or re-partition your hard disk drive. Is there anyway to create such function for that Recovery Partition or is it simply programmed into BIOS at the time of Manufacturing at factory??? Kindly in details I would like to know. Any proper suggestions or help would be courteously appreciated!  

And also do let me know how to use tools like MBR and playing with the boot records and all that stuff. I dont know anything about them in detail!  

Thanks a whole bunch once again!

[sbaeder]

Hi... Long time subscriber to this forum; first time participator in it! I want to know how to create a Recovery Partition with a System Image aka Windows Image with drivers and other settings installed.      

2nd Question:  I also want to know how to hide that Recovery Partition properly and forever. Like it shouldn't show up even if you Re-partition your harddisk like OEM pcs have it hidden!    
  
3rd Question: I also want to know how to stick that HOTKEY functionality forever like OEMs have even if you format or re-partition your hard disk drive. Is there anyway to create such function for that Recovery Partition or is it simply programmed into BIOS at the time of Manufacturing at factory??? Kindly in details I would like to know. Any proper suggestions or help would be courteously appreciated!  

And also do let me know how to use tools like MBR and playing with the boot records and all that stuff. I dont know anything about them in detail!  

Thanks a whole bunch once again!

 

OK - one at a time...

 

On creating a recovery like partition, there is a prety good tool -  http://forums.mydigi...rtition-Creator  that can help you do this as a part of building the OS installation.  There are a lot of posts about the tool, but the basics are to do the partitioning at the start, do the installation, allow you to customize things, then create the snapshot.  NOTE: Win8 has tools that do similar things, but in a different way to allow you to "restore" things.

 

On #2, you can't really hide it "forever".  The tool above will "hide" it, but it will still show up (as will the partions from PC vendors like HP/Dell) if you look hard enough.  Afterall, it is just a partition in the partition table, etc.  NOTE: be careful of it is a GPT or normal partition scheme...

 

On #3, this all depends on the boot loader or BIOS to implement.  Older versions of the tool mentioned above have an option built into the windows boot loader...remember that with a standard win7 (or above) installation, there is a hidden boot partition, which is separate from the "C" drive partition.

 

Boot records and MBR (Master Boot Records) are an advanced topic.  Suffice it to say that they contain the code that is used to load the code that loads the code that is the operating system...Each step loads something more sophisticated and complex...Start by digesting the information above...

 

Good Luck, and Welcome!

 

Scott

[TechnoCrat]

Hi Scott... Thanks a lot for replying  . You really provided useful information and suggestions on my questions, but I want you to elaborate further on some points I am upbringing now!

On #2, you said that a person cant hide the partition forever, even if you observe on the OEM pcs. But I think maybe you are wrong here or maybe I am, because I have a Dell Inspiron Laptop N5010 with windows 7 Home Premium. After using for nearly a year, I formatted the partitions infact Re-partitioned again, and still my Hidden Recovery Partition is there; hidden; even dont show up on new windows installation. I am using windows 8 now. Still its hidden.However I can see that partition in Disk Partitioning utilities like Acronis, Easeus etc only. So maybe there's someway if you can figure it out!

On #3, I get your point you mean, when we are installing windows 7, the setup creates a 100 MB system partition before C: which stores some system files and maybe boot information. Right??? As you mentioned that "this all depends on the boot loader or BIOS to implement", my understanding after your point is that one can do some tweaking in the BIOS for that Recovery Partition Hotkey or some key combination. Right? Or better said one can use that Hidden 100 MB Pre C: system partition to permanently store some tweaked MBR and boot files to create that KEY FUNCTIONALITY as long as that Hidden Partition stays in the DISK PARTITIONING TABLE!

Awaiting reply     

[TechnoCrat]

 

Edited by TechnoCrat, 23 January 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[steve6375]

On my site there are a few tutorials.

The easiest one (tut 89) uses clonezilla and does have hotkey functionality.

Another one based on ImageX can be found here. This one does not have hotkey functionality, but that could easily be added to the menu afterwards. This tutorial is more complicated to implement.

[Tripredacus]

I had done this before for XP embedded and Server 2008 embedded OSes.

http://www.msfn.org/...h-winpe-30-x86/

It was not a 100% implementation for the XPe due to some issue with diskpart that I never solved.

 

Hotkey is handled using Terrabyte Unlimited's free MBR tool.

[TechnoCrat]

On my site there are a few tutorials.

The easiest one (tut 89) uses clonezilla and does have hotkey functionality.

Another one based on ImageX can be found here. This one does not have hotkey functionality, but that could easily be added to the menu afterwards. This tutorial is more complicated to implement.

Thanks a whole lot Steve. Actually I am currently working on your suggestion #2 in my Virtual Machine and so far so good     . Making a backup of Win7 right now. Would let you know after successful restoration of the Image.   

I liked the 2nd process as it gives you far more tweakings with the system files and partitioning structures and give you a good whole new experience.
So the MBR whatever I've used/installed on my C: which is giving me that "Boot Menu containing OS and Recovery Partition", will it be gone if I've re partitioned my HDD from the start while keeping the Drive D containing Bootable WinPE and other files still hidden like my Dell Laptop still has it. My laptop win7 partition is still hidden and set as SYSTEM, BOOT, PRIMARY etc. I can still boot into that drive using the backup DVD I made with Dell DataSafe Local Backup, but that Image of windows after OOBE setup of windows 7 after restart doesn' work anymore saying "A hardware change has occured". Nevertheless what I mean to say is that factory image/partition is still working and that's the thing I want! 

 

I had done this before for XP embedded and Server 2008 embedded OSes.

http://www.msfn.org/...h-winpe-30-x86/

It was not a 100% implementation for the XPe due to some issue with diskpart that I never solved.

 

Hotkey is handled using Terrabyte Unlimited's free MBR tool.

Thank you mate. Will definitely check out your solution too. I like to experiment a lot for greater knowledge!     . Would let you know!

[Wonko the Sane]

Besides the grub4dos and the Terabyte nice free tool, there is also a "built-in" approach (for "later than XP", since no specific Windows version was actually specified) which may (or may not) be an alternative:

http://www.msfn.org/...via-f8-startup/

personally I have not a long enough stick to NOT touch it with, but everyone has it's own likings.

 

What I personally use/like is the good ol' MBLDR:

http://www.msfn.org/...d/page__st__105

the actual issue (but I suspect that is more due of queerness on actual keyboards scan codes than anything else) may be the use of F11 key, but F10 should always work.

 

Wonko

[mr-roboto]

A simple way to accomplish a hotkey-type recovery event (or any event at boot time) is SYSLINUX.  One can craft a simple boot menu with whatever graphic that one desires and some action(s) bound to a function key(s).  Essentially the system boots, loads the custom SYSLINUX menu, which can be configured to timeout and boot the OS as the default operation.  An example of this arrangement is any recent Knoppix live CD.  Even if one isn't "Linux-compatible", Knoppix provides easy-to-use live Linux (no changes to your installed OS) with just about everything one would need to pull this off.  HTH....

[Bass]

I prefer to use grub4dos for hotkey funcionality it allows to map any key you want to use, and you can hex edit the grubinst.exe to get your own custom boot message.

[steve6375]

You can just have a splash screen with no menu at all with grub4dos - see here.

You can also patch grldr using grub4dos to suppress all diagnostic startup messages - see here.

[TechnoCrat]

I prefer to use grub4dos for hotkey funcionality it allows to map any key you want to use, and you can hex edit the grubinst.exe to get your own custom boot message.

will you elaborate further how can I achieve that functionality????

 

You can just have a splash screen with no menu at all with grub4dos - see here.

You can also patch grldr using grub4dos to suppress all diagnostic startup messages - see here.

here are step wise instructions on how to make a custom bootable recovery partition using GRUB4DOS. Please read the menu.lst code thorougly and do let me know how can I hide my Recovery Partition
? I followed the exact steps using 2 partitions but I am unable to hide my recovery partition. However I've made the partition and have successfully made the Image. All I want to get is to Hide that specific RECOVERY PARTITION!
Please read the code below and do let me known what editing/modifications it could need!
 

password 123456
timeout = 30

title Windows XP Professional
hide (hd0,1)
find --set-root /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

title Windows 7
hide (hd0,1)
find --set-root /bootmgr
chainloader /bootmgr

title Restore Menu
password 123456
unhide (hd0,1)
find --set-root /windowspe.iso
map /windowspe.iso (0xff) || map --mem /windowspe.iso (0xff)
map --hook
chainloader (0xff)

Waiting for suggestions! 

 

[Bass]

The method I use is to install grub4dos using grubinst.exe with this parameters:

 

grubinst.exe --duce --mbr-disable-floppy --boot-prevmbr-first --time-out=3 --hot-key=0x8500 --key-name=F11 --boot-file=grldr (hd0)

 

With this when the computer boots you will be prompted to press F11, if they key is pressed then grub4dos is executed if not it will continue to boot to windows.

 

Further details can be found here.

 

This is convenient because some users doesn't like to see a menu when their computer boots and this way they only see the grub4dos menu if F11 is pressed.

 

I use this method combined with the tutorial #81 from steve6375 website and have got very good results i think if you want to create a recovery partition that is a very good way.

 

[TechnoCrat]

The method I use is to install grub4dos using grubinst.exe with this parameters:

 

grubinst.exe --duce --mbr-disable-floppy --boot-prevmbr-first --time-out=3 --hot-key=0x8500 --key-name=F11 --boot-file=grldr (hd0)

 

With this when the computer boots you will be prompted to press F11, if they key is pressed then grub4dos is executed if not it will continue to boot to windows.

 

Further details can be found here.

 

This is convenient because some users doesn't like to see a menu when their computer boots and this way they only see the grub4dos menu if F11 is pressed.

 

I use this method combined with the tutorial #81 from steve6375 website and have got very good results i think if you want to create a recovery partition that is a very good way.

Thanks a lot... Sounds like a good tutorial. I will check it today and let you know. By the way can you tell me the exact parameters on how to hide a partition using menu.lst and grldr? I ve pasted my menu.lst and when I return to windows 7, the recovery partition is still unhidden! Why it is so?

[steve6375]

To change the message, boot from the disk to grub4dos and use the following grub4dos patch command from the grub4dos command shell.

cat --locate=" to start GRUB," --number=1 --replace=" to Restore the Hard Disk Image.\0" (hd0)+20 > nul

Note that the --replace string must not be longer than about 53 characters or you will corrupt the boot code!

 

If you want to entirely suppress the 'Press F10 to start...' message and the Timeout message and just have the 3..2..1..0 countdown displayed, the following grub4dos commands will patch the disk that grub4dos is installed on, to suppress these messages:

cat --locate="Press " --number=2 --replace=\0\0 (hd0)+20 > nul
cat --locate=" to start GRUB," --number=1 --replace=\0\0 (hd0)+20 > nul
cat --locate="Timeout : " --number=1 --replace=\0\0 (hd0)+20 > nul
cat --locate="F10" --number=1 --replace=\0\0 (hd0)+20 > nul
cat --locate="hot-key" --number=1 --replace=\0\0 (hd0)+20 > nul

You can make this into a text batch file - e.g. nostmsg.g4b, by adding the first line of text !BAT , and then run the batch file from the command line by typing /nostmsg.g4b.

[Bass]

To hide the recovery partition you can use DISKPART after booting to WINPE and run the following commands:

 

sel vol D: -> (Change D: for the letter of your recovery partition)

 

set id=27 override

exit

[TechnoCrat]

To change the message, boot from the disk to grub4dos and use the following grub4dos patch command from the grub4dos command shell.

Note that the --replace string must not be longer than about 53 characters or you will corrupt the boot code!

 

If you want to entirely suppress the 'Press F10 to start...' message and the Timeout message and just have the 3..2..1..0 countdown displayed, the following grub4dos commands will patch the disk that grub4dos is installed on, to suppress these messages:

You can make this into a text batch file - e.g. nostmsg.g4b, by adding the first line of text !BAT , and then run the batch file from the command line by typing /nostmsg.g4b.

How to boot into GRUB4DOS as I am literally unaware of LINUX Environment! How is it possible to boot into it?

 

To hide the recovery partition you can use DISKPART after booting to WINPE and run the following commands:

 

sel vol D: -> (Change D: for the letter of your recovery partition)

 

set id=27 override

exit

I know this method and this is just like Right clicking My Computer > Mange and from their Disk Management and Removing the drive letter. And through same process one can assign a drive letter and can modify/see the contents of a particular partition. What I want a long-everlasting solution and I've heard that through GRUB you can hide it permanently. Is this really possible through GRUB?

[steve6375]

Removing a drive letter is NOT the same as setting the partition ID to  27! 

[TechnoCrat]

Removing a drive letter is NOT the same as setting the partition ID to  27! 

Right! As far as I can remember I also read about this same method you talked about "ID=27" and also applied it and in my knowledge it didnt work. But let me check again. Maybe I could have done something wrong back then!
Thank you once again!

[Wonko the Sane]

Just for the record a partiion ID of 17 mean "Hidden NTFS" whilst a partition ID of 27 means "NTFS senseless system (please read boot) partition used by some installs of Windows 7 or later" or, according to some sources, "Windows RE hidden partition"

http://www.win.tue.n...on_types-1.html

 

The grub4dos hide command will make a 07 partition become 17, not 27.

 

It seems to me like different methods are currently "mixed together".

There is NO actual need to unhide a partition to let grub4dos find a .iso on it.

BUT, in the menu you posted the SAME partition hosts BOTH "windows 7" AND the recovery .iso.

 

:cheers.

Wonko

[TechnoCrat]

Just for the record a partiion ID of 17 mean "Hidden NTFS" whilst a partition ID of 27 means "NTFS senseless system (please read boot) partition used by some installs of Windows 7 or later" or, according to some sources, "Windows RE hidden partition"

http://www.win.tue.n...on_types-1.html

 

The grub4dos hide command will make a 07 partition become 17, not 27.

 

It seems to me like different methods are currently "mixed together".

There is NO actual need to unhide a partition to let grub4dos find a .iso on it.

BUT, in the menu you posted the SAME partition hosts BOTH "windows 7" AND the recovery .iso.

 

:cheers.

Wonko

Yeah, you are exactly right. I listed the same partition number for hiding and hiding or better said as same partition number for Win 7 and Recovery Partition! I am working on it right now on in my VM and should post after testing it.
So you're saying if i hide a partition there is no need to unhide it for GRUB as it can already detect it even if its hidden?

Update : I edited my menu.lst with "hide (hd0,2)" as i've 3 partitions stating SYSTEM RESERVED as no.1 and RECOVERY as no.3. But still in WIN7 I can see that RECOVERY partition! I think I've to use that DISKPART ID=27 method to hide it!

Edited by TechnoCrat, 30 January 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[TechnoCrat]

To change the message, boot from the disk to grub4dos and use the following grub4dos patch command from the grub4dos command shell.

Note that the --replace string must not be longer than about 53 characters or you will corrupt the boot code!

 

If you want to entirely suppress the 'Press F10 to start...' message and the Timeout message and just have the 3..2..1..0 countdown displayed, the following grub4dos commands will patch the disk that grub4dos is installed on, to suppress these messages:

You can make this into a text batch file - e.g. nostmsg.g4b, by adding the first line of text !BAT , and then run the batch file from the command line by typing /nostmsg.g4b.

Ok. Do tell me what exact filename and extension should I save these codes as and where shall I put such file to make it work? details would be greatly appreciated!
Applied the set id=27 override method from windows 7 itself and then through WINDOWS PE, and still the RECOVERY PARTITION is visible!

Edited by TechnoCrat, 30 January 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[steve6375]

Ok. Do tell me what exact filename and extension should I save these codes as and where shall I put such file to make it work? details would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

>>You can make this into a text batch file - e.g. nostmsg.g4b, by adding the first line of text !BAT , and then run the batch file from the command line by typing /nostmsg.g4b.

 

Why don't you try reading - isn't it obvious what filename and extension to use (hint: the same one as specified!) and there is a clue about where the file should be put from the last two words!

Post #15 tells you how to run it.

 

As for the type 27 issue - remove the drive letter using Disk Manager. Type 27 will be 'visible' under PE but should not be visible in Explorer under Win7.

It depends on what you mean by 'visible' - do you mean present as a drive letter under Win7?

 

[TechnoCrat]

 

>>You can make this into a text batch file - e.g. nostmsg.g4b, by adding the first line of text !BAT , and then run the batch file from the command line by typing /nostmsg.g4b.

 

Why don't you try reading - isn't it obvious what filename and extension to use (hint: the same one as specified!) and there is a clue about where the file should be put from the last two words!

Post #15 tells you how to run it.

 

As for the type 27 issue - remove the drive letter using Disk Manager. Type 27 will be 'visible' under PE but should not be visible in Explorer under Win7.

It depends on what you mean by 'visible' - do you mean present as a drive letter under Win7?

 

ok. I understand. Thanks.

As for the drive being visible, yes its visible in My Computer with the drive letter and I can browse its contents!

[steve6375]

If the partition was type 27 before you booted Windows, then it would not have got a drive letter. Because you made it an ordinary partition first, Windows gave it a drive letter and so changing it to 27 afterwards had no affect. So use Disk Manager to remove the drive letter assignment.

As explained previously, it is very difficult to truly hide a partition but still make it bootable.