216 replies to this topic

[pscEx]

I delivered a new version of Win7PE 2013.

 

It can create a valid NVDA installation in the PE.

 

Please, take care, that only the Win7PE project can add NVDA right now. WinBuilder itself has currently no support for "impaired people specials", therfore you are sometimes "in the dark".

• Download WinBuilder into a fresh directory and start WinBuilder.exe
• Execute  "Auto"
• Wait for (sorry) long time, maybe one hour or more, until the first project is finished. It does not yet contain NVDA
• Execute "Install NVDA"
• Check http://reboot.pro/files/file/344-nvda and prepare "plugins" accordingly.
• Execute "Build". That will bring you (after some minutes)  an ISO containing NVDA.

Please tell me your experiences, complains,suggestions here.

Also posts to WinBuilder itself are welcome here. I'll copy to the corresponding WinBuilder topic, when applicable.

 

Peter

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

I would like to plea You for one important think.

Would You include winbuilder.exe inside Yours distributable .zip Win7 PE project? And if Winbuilder is written in Java and its GUI is not accessible for blind users for now, what about simply modiffy Winbuilder to support Java accessbridge. Or You would use swing library.

So if You would include winbuilder.exe inside distrituable archive, it would be amazing, it is not very easy to download it from other reboot PRO place.

Thank You, that You did not forget on visually impaired users of NVDA.

[Zimmy]

Installing the Java Access Bridge
http://www.oracle.co...jsp-136191.html
components will help with accessibility in the new version of WinBuilder.  Note, you should add the components to the copy of JAVA included with WinBuilder, not your locally installed copy.

[pscEx]

To avoid misundestandings: WinBuilder is a "managing" program. In my above post the topic is Win7PE. Win7PE is an application which uses WinBuilder to perform some actions which lead into a wanted result.

 

Now some background information:There is a (well known) person Nuno Brito, which invented the idea of WinBuilder. Let's call him "The Architect"

The architect asked me as a person he trusted, to inspect, debug, adjust, improve, ... his source code.

 

In reality that means, that I have the power to change everything in the WinBuilder project.

But due to my "loyal employee" status I'll never publish something passing the architect.

 

Try to get the best from the current Win7PE project, tell the issues, and the architect and me will try to improve everything for use by visually handicapped people.

 

BTW: The "Accessbridge" hint is recorded in my mind!

 

Peter

[egyblind]

hello sirs

 

i'm a blind man from egypt, i never make any projects or Live-cd

please need a live xp cd which support nvda

also a quick tutorial for how i update nvda version and configure it as i use

i need this to use this cd  / dvd  to repair pc problems and installing new windows.

  many thanks for your help

 

Egy-blind

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear sir,

Nice to see You on this forum. The best choice for You is to use The latest MultiPE project. MR Schlang have declared very good will and he modified Winbuilder so play and other buttons can be accessed by using hod keys, no complex NVDA object and onscreen navigations to access those toolbars quickly.

If You will use Multi PE, You have The 100 % probability, that You will use legal platform to build live .iso and bootable USB flash drives.

The topic of MULTIPE can be find here.

http://reboot.pro/to...view=getnewpost

The direct download link of The latest stable build can be find here.

 

http://multipe.exec-...tiPE_latest.zip

The latest MULTIPE will be always downloadable by using this direct link.

You will be able to use Windows XP as installation source. But You have to own USB audio sound cart or USB headset to use NVDA with this live project.

You have The highest probability, that You will get sound support on every computer.

If You want to install Windows Xp on empty or reformatted harddisk, You must use The special setup program ntsetup, i will give You direct download link later, this program is written in Autoid sand enable You to install Windows from running live PE, The data from installation CD will be copied to The special harddrive folder and when You will reboot from running live PE, system will install XP. by using data on harddisk.

But You should have previously prepared autounattend file to install most automatically as possible.

Press ALT+F4 on The last setup screen of XP, system will set default administrator user account, You will recognize this last screen according to The fact, that power button will not force system to shut down, You would had to hold this button for more than 5 seconds or 10 seconds.

Please remember, that You can not install Xp directly from running live PE project based on XP source, installer will not copy files to harddisk first when You will simply run it from installation CD. Data will be copyed to virtual RAM disk in PE.

I have tried winnt32 and some commandline option, but i have got some errors, when i specified my harddisk.

So ntsetup is The most reliable solution.

NTsetup will enable You also to set some Windows Xp tweak, which will be applied to The installation. So discuss with me and i will give You The valuable information.

I have successfully installed XP by using CDS prepared by using Windows unattended CD creator and Nlite, i have uset Ntsetup from running live PE to install Windows Xp installation source, which have been modified by WIndows unattended CD creator.

[pscEx]

Sorry I am writig from mobil. So maybe some mistakes
NVDA 2014.1 errors when startimg from xp pe

Currently latest runnong version is 2013.3

Peter

[TheRookie]

Hello,

I would just like to ask, has anyone made a live CD of win8PE with NVDA or another screenreader?

I have tried and have succeeded, but neither jaws nor NVDA can read the stuff in windows explorer. Sure they run, fine, but don't read anything in explorer which is really sad. If anyone has got NVDA or jaws working in the win8PE please do share with me. I'm sorry for going off-topic.

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Aljo and Peter,

Thank You for Yours programmers effort while making platforms to build live system from Windows 7 and XP sources. It enable blind users to work indepndently with their computers including virus detection and removal.

 

I have may be very strange question.

 

Would be possible to make project, which would build live system by using only WAIK or Windows assessment and deploiment kit?

The goal is to make project, which would not including nothink from official WIndows 7 or 8 sources. So only WAIK components or Windows assesment and installation kit components would be used.

I have found one project, which support only WAIK to build live system, Qdir file manager is being used and pestart as a mini shell to use hod keys to start application according to The name of The .exe or app directory.

The issues are:

Does WAIK or Windows assesment and deploiment kit contain Windows sound service?

Must be really directx used to run NVDA if live project is based on WAIK or windows assessment and deployment kit?

I have found out, that Directx do not have to bee used when running MULTIPE and while choosing XP as source. I Am sure because of it.

The next issue is:

Would WAIK support USB audio device in general? Or only flash drives can be used?

I hope, that somebody of us, because You are The most experienced developers on The reboot pro forums would answer me on my questions.

ALJO, thanks for Yours next variant of live build platform for blind users again.

Peter, very well done, thank You for adding hod keys to activate important gui elements of WInbuilder GUI, i have previously used NVDA object navigation by using on screen navigation and Insert and number 1 to jump on the right toolbar window 32 class name object.

 

Using project without explorer.exe and classic start menu.exe would according to my opinion free some of RAM and user would use portable apps packages available on The net privately to add next apps to his USB stick.

 

I hope, that i did not make somebody of us sad because of my constructive question.

Thank You very much for Yours answers.

With kindness regards.

Janusz chmiel

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear ALJO,

Very well done.

Yoursproject build without issues, NVDa start without error sound warning before Espeak start speaking.

But please would You include old functioning script rather than Rufus? Rufus.exe is amazing tool but i have found out, that .iso images created by WIN PE 7 projects can not be successfully loaded from bootable USB stick.

Old script which have been used HPUSB disk storage format tool worked reliably.

So You have made reliable and stable project, very well done and good job.

I will initiate developers discussion with WIN8.1 PE creators to find The procedure how to support USB audio devices.

I know, that this heavy task must involve whole development team of WIN8 PE project, so i will try to open this question on The WIN8 PE forum, i hope, thazt somebody will find The solution for that.

Thank You very much for Yours professional work.

With kindness regards.

Janusz Chmiel

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

I Am getting the following bug when i try to run MuLTIPE and if XP have been selected as source.

V:\multi Test\Projects\Tools\nativeEx\7z.exe  dialog  V:\multi Test\Projects\Tools\nativeEx\7z.exe

System can not find The specified drive.

So all external .exe tools, which Yours scripts want to call can not be executed, so i have kill winbuilder.exe process from task manager.

Thank You very much for The repair.

[pscEx]

Dear Peter,

I Am getting the following bug when i try to run MuLTIPE and if XP have been selected as source.

V:\multi Test\Projects\Tools\nativeEx\7z.exe  dialog  V:\multi Test\Projects\Tools\nativeEx\7z.exe

System can not find The specified drive.

So all external .exe tools, which Yours scripts want to call can not be executed, so i have kill winbuilder.exe process from task manager.

Thank You very much for The repair.

Sorry, a local path slipped into the upload.

 

I will change as soon as possible.

 

Peter

[pscEx]

Done.

 

Version 74

 

Peter

[pscEx]

Would be possible to make project, which would build live system by using only WAIK or Windows assessment and deploiment kit?

...

Does WAIK or Windows assesment and deploiment kit contain Windows sound service?

...

Must be really directx used to run NVDA if live project is based on WAIK or windows assessment and deployment kit?

"Sound" has been my first worry, too.

 

My projects multiPE XP and Win7 track for WinBulder 82 as well as win7PE for Winbuilder 201x do not need directX.

 

I will check and report.

 

Peter

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

Thank You very much that You are so kind and open heart to the member of visually impaired community.

I will tell You why i think about new special project, which would use WAIK lor Windows assessment and installation kit as source.

 

It would be 100 % legal.

The hydden licensing issues related to The fact, that some projects are including apps build inside to it would be gone, because we would had to only please The author of fast free file manager program, qdir would be good, but C++ developer of this program created menu by using toolbar object so menu items can not be spoken. But free file manager would be The good solution.

So resulted live project would not emulate real Windows operating system installation, so no desktop and no start menu. Only startpe as a necessary shell and some file manager. Pe start would be used to start NVDA by pressing n button after pressing Windows key or CTRL+ESC, because there will be issues with NVDA auto start.

BUt i Am afraid, that we will not be able to use only WIN PE as source, because USB audio sound devices are very probably not supported by WAIK or Windows assessment and installation kit.

And usbaudio.sys is very probably not part of WAIK:

I have found out one project, which have support NVDA but no sound, it was project from Jaunty lovel from year 2008, but may be, that he had included some files from .vista, old WAIK for Vista have been used so new WAIK will not work with his tool.

When i have been used his project, NVDA could be run, but because MR Jaunty Lovel had to write his new shell and file manager in Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0, he totally ignored keyboard so files could not to be navigated by using arrow keys or by typing some first letters of The folder and file names.

But NVDAa could be run and even dialog windows O NVDA could be displayed.

I had to plea my mum to click on NVDA screen reader executable.

But i have tested it with older version of NVDAa, very probably version 2010 or 2009.

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

Thank You very much for Yours programmers work.

Yours project is creating functioning live .iso image if i select XP installation source. I will test it with Windows 7 installation source if USB audio will work.

 

I only have one big question.

Why hostaud must be used?

Why only one USB audio driver and virtualbox audio driver can not be used?

Is it because NVDA autostart depend on hostaud.exe? Or does it somethink with Windows sound service?

I have found out, that sound service is started in one .cmd script.

Why i ask You is that hostaudio can produce dialog windows which prevent NVDA from being automatically started. Aspecially if hostaudio must give user a dialog window to decide which drivers should be installed.

 

I know, that You will stop like me because of my idea but do You think, that hostaudio must be really used? Theoretically, only usbaudio driver could be used, because believe me that it is much more better to support only one reliable sound support than tryiing to support several devices.

I have used other live PE projects including one from Amalux and is driverimport PE script, and i have found out, that autodetection of sound carts is taking some time and is allocating much RAM.

We must accept The fact, that live PE is not standard Windows installation and hardware devices and sound drivers are managet differently while working with them in standard XP or WINDOWS 7 installation.

 

So if we only wanted to support USB audio and virtual box sound drivers.

Must be hostaudio be used to initialize sound service and other WDM sound related modules?

 

YOurs work is perfect, but i want to discuss with YOu because You are one of The most professional member of this forum, Ayou have much programmers experiences.

I would be never able to discuss on sysops forum, because MR Pietroforte from this forum support only professional system administrators. It is his democratic right, but i would not be able to discuss with him about project, which would create Windows live environment based on WAIK or newer PE platform with USB audio and NVDA support.

And this discussion forum is very rare place, where advanced programmers can discuss with users.

I know, that it requires much patience from developers in some cases, apsecially while reading my bad English. May be, that in some times, i can make somebody engry or sad, but believe me that my goal is only to bring 100 % legal and functioning live projects to all visually impaired users and administrators who live in this world.

 

So thank You mr ALJO and Schlang for Yours very big patience with me.

[pscEx]

 

Why hostaud must be used?

Is it because NVDA autostart depend on hostaud.exe? Or does it somethink with Windows sound service?

hostaudio is not a MUST, it is a goodie.

 

Depending on the computer's hardware, for audio support, besides the standard hdaudio drivers, local audio drivers must be installed.

 

Therfore theoretically the user must add an audio driver for his individual sound card.

 

The hostDriver functionality of multiPE looks into the actual host, where the PE is started, (optionally) for audio, video and network drivers, and installs them during PE boot.

 

So in most cases, you do not need to add special audio, video, nic drivers to your PE build.

 

It would not make sence to ask the user for the driver, because hostAud should find the only one which is valid for the host PC.

And you are right, that the hostDriver functionality is not necessary in VirtualBox or similar.

 

The NVDA autostart is historic and not longer performed. I have to fix the script in the next upload (hopefully I remember ...)

 

I know, that it requires much patience from developers in some cases, apsecially while reading my bad English. May be, that in some times, i can make somebody engry or sad, but believe me that my goal is only to bring 100 % legal and functioning live projects to all visually impaired users and administrators who live in this world.

Be sure that I always try to find solutions for visually impaired people and never will refuse a request. But sometimes some things exceed my programmer's experience and knowledge, and google is not always my friend.

 

Peter

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

I know, that You think it very good with all users of MULTIPE.

The problem is, that Host audio can not automatically support all various sound drivers, so best approach is to use included sound driver to The project.

I will give You a example.

NVDA can autodetect all available sound device. In MULTIPE, USB audio driver is included and also VIrtual box related sound driver.

If hostaudio find Soundmax integrated digital audio driver on The host system, will be this device automatically available by Windows sound service and by NVDA?

I have testet hostaudio and it is very good tool, but i was able to use Soundmax only when i have manually confirmed, that thissound driver can be used.

So what i want to tell is,that hostaudio can not always decide in full automated mode, if The founded sound driver can be used.

To confirm my notion, i will look at The sound devices list, if soundmax will be listed and if i can use it with NVDA.

When i wanted to remove hostaudio script, NVDA could not use USB audio eventhough i have tried to start NVDA manually, so i think, that hostaudio script have somethink to do with sound driver and service working.

I will test USB audio support with Windows 7 OS.

[pscEx]

If hostaudio find Soundmax integrated digital audio driver on The host system, will be this device automatically available by Windows sound service and by NVDA?

I have testet hostaudio and it is very good tool, but i was able to use Soundmax only when i have manually confirmed, that thissound driver can be used.

Number one: Yes, but only in PE's where the windows directory is writable, and the driver can be installed.

That is the case with PE on USB stick. With PE on ISO it is not possible.

 

I wrote a tool localDriver which grabs the host's driver and creates a multiPE script to add the driver to the PE build.

You can downolad it at http://reboot.pro/fi...81-localdriver/.

It should be possible to create a multiPE script for Soundmax with localDriver and add it to the multiPE project.

 

Number two: That question is asked by Bill Gates and cannot be influenced by multiPE / hostAudio.

 

Peter

[JanuszChmiel]

Dear Peter,

Thank You very much for Yours professional answer.

So really, i must use projects based on original Windows installation source to get screen reader support and sound support. So i must hope, that powerful Microsoft company will not start strong offense against all developers, who are develop projects based on WIN PE and WIndows 7 sources and against all users of those projects.

 

I have tested Yours well thinket tool for integrating sound driver inside .script file but i can not hewlp myself, i Am getting Windows application crasch report when tryying to build The script.

I do this from XP SP3 professional CZ language with stable non virus infected installation.

But back to hostaudio.exeprogram.

 

Try to imagine The situation, that this module would not be included.

Would be possible to only install USB audio driver and VIrtualbox related sound driver and not tryiing to search The host system?

PE projects canbe also very useful to diagnose empty harddisks, where user do not need to search host system for drivers or NTFS volume is so severely damaged, that ntfs.sys and other NT kernel modules can not access it.

 

In my case, NVDA can not auto start.

Because hostaudio script display dialog window which prompts me to select The driver, it display founded broadcomm extreme network cart.

And because blind user can not interact with dialog when NVDA is not speaking, user must run NVDA by pressing WIndows start menu, pressing p, by pressing a and by pressing m like My nvda.

BUt dialog window of hostaudio exist.

And next issue.

Mountstorpe.exe can not be find by Multipe in X:\i386\system32.

This is long term persisting issue.

And this making issue when changing USB flash disks.

So what is my goal?

 

Because NVDA auto start is not guaranteed, lets go by other way.

Try to force MMULTIPE so it would play welcome startup sound,and shortcut for starting NVDA would be assigned to The shortcut CTRL+ALT+N.

 

Would be possible to include this short cut?

I can send You a .lnk file, which will refer to The NVDA location.

I know, that XP is problematic OS and that it is The miracle, that sound can work in PE 1.0.

I Am very patient and my goal is to have reliable USB audio support and NVDA.

 

And Win 7 source must be SP0 or SP1 X86 source?

I have got severe error stop XXX system thread or process when i have choosen WIndows 7 X86 with SP1, X17 are first 3 letters of The name of .iso image with this Windows7 variant.

[pscEx]

 

Because hostaudio script display dialog window which prompts me to select The driver, it display founded broadcomm extreme network cart.

And because blind user can not interact with dialog when NVDA is not speaking, user must run NVDA by pressing WIndows start menu, pressing p, by pressing a

In my tests I recognised this issue.

 

Since two hours I am trying to suppress the confirmation dialog.

 

I hope that I will have success.

 

 

Would be possible to only install USB audio driver and VIrtualbox related sound driver and not tryiing to search The host system?

To install VirtualBox audio would not help. The audio drivers must match the hardware, and very truelly a real PC has not the VirtualBox sound card integrated.

 

 

Try to force MMULTIPE so it would play welcome startup sound,and shortcut for starting NVDA would be assigned to The shortcut CTRL+ALT+N.

Some days / weeks(?) research to implement, but I will try.

The issue is:

When NVDA starts before the audio system is working, NVDA will not be heareable, even after the audio system works.

 

 

And Win 7 source must be SP0 or SP1 X86 source?

Must be x86. With the CDs I tested there is no dependency from SP0 or SP1. But I do not have CZ. Maybe you can upload anywhere?

 

A lot to do.

 

Let's go on!

 

Peter

[TheRookie]

hi,

I am trying to reply in this topic. But I can't paste the reply which I have written in another editor. Is there like a simple classic layout to the

forum that is useable?

[pscEx]

I do not have an idea what the problems are when posting contents of another editor.

 

I suggest:

Either: Save your text into a plain notepad file and copy here

Or: Attach the document.

Or: Paste into "Quote" or "Code"

 

Peter

[TheRookie]

Hi Peter,

I had written it in notepad and tried to paste.

but it wouldn't paste anything, no matter what I tried!

Sadly the editors of some forum software is quite inaccessible with the screenreaders.

But I will try the attachment method.

[pscEx]

Sadly the editors of some forum software is quite inaccessible with the screenreaders.

 

That seems to be a "feature" of NVDA  or screan readers generally, because they catch some key strokes.

 

I have similar problem when I am in my development IDE and NVDA is running

 

I am sure we find a way ...

 

Peter