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GRUB4DOS for UEFI


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#276 alacran

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 12:32 AM

About the ext folder:

 

From my post: http://reboot.pro/in...445#entry217826

 

I'm going to answer myself, the ext folder contains a set of the previously called grubutils (external utilities that can be run from grub4dos).

 

On this page on RMPrepUSB site by our fellow steve6375, I found a brief description and info of their use, at least for the MBR version of grub4dos.

 

The page also includes interesting info to make use of this utilities on the creation of Batch files for grub4dos (MBR version).

 

NOTE: It seems the linked page on RMPrepUSB is not very recent and some info could be outdated.

 

It would be good if some of our chinese friends, that come frecuently to this forum, and have more knowledge of the recent developments in grub4dos for MBR and also for UEFI could give us a more complete and updated info.

 

alacran

 

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#277 liuzhaoyzz

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 09:40 AM

JFYI

There are some interesting new improvements on grub4dos-for_UEFI made during the last months, I will comment the last improvements made during 2021, from the info on grub4dos-for_UEFI-2021-02-10, (usual functions are already included on last version of wimb's programs).

This is new changelog_UEFI.txt file translated to English, remarked in blue new 2021 improvements:

Spoiler


The more relevant improvemets are:

Start bootmgfw.efi fine. since 2021-01-09 version.
Correct external commands, since 2021-01-12 version.
Support loading multiple initrd files since 2021-01-12 version.
Support to start a differential VHD has been added since 2021-01-31 version.
Now it shuts down fine (and does not make a false shut down, just to reboot again in a few seconds), since 2021-02-10

And this is new Sample menu.lst translated to English.

Spoiler


There is not a sample to boot differential VHD on the previous Sample menu.lst

Now ntloader can be loaded as an external command to boot WIM and VHD files, using following sample commands:

#Use external command ntloader
#Assuming WIM or VHD is located in (hdx,y), the path is /path/to/winpe.wim
title Start Windows WIM/VHD
uuid (hdx,y)
kernel /ntloader uuid=%?_UUID% file=/path/to/winpe.wim
initrd /initrd.lz1

#Use external command ntloader
#Assuming the system folder is located at (hdx,y)
title Start Windows system
uuid (hdx,y)
kernel /ntloader uuid=%?_UUID%
initrd /initrd.lz1

But I assume we need to have the ntloader external command available, as it do not seems to be embeded in G4E

@ a1ive and/or @ liuzhaoyzz:

Please give us some more info about boot differential VHD, and the use of ntloader external command in G4E.

I remember I read (on wuyou.net forum) a1ive made, (from his version of ntloader used on a1ive's grub2), a new ntloader modified version to be used on G4E.

Also there is now an ext folder into grub4dos-for_UEFI-2021-02-10.7z download, with several files into it, and I would like to know better what is their use?

Thanks in advance.

alacran

alacran,
My friend, I'm sorry I haven't been to http://reboot.pro/for a long time.
Wintoflash's NTLOADER is very simple to start vhd integrated with svbus driver, either directly starting vhd or map --mem.
Let me give you an example menu:
https://liuzhaoyzz.l...com/iGCnjn2d5dg

title WIN7X64-SVBUS (/VHD/SX70211.vhd)-chainloader ntloader-vhd-svbus
find --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /EFI/grub/ntloader | set x=
echo x=%x%
find --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd --set-root /VHD/SX70211.vhd
uuid ()
chainloader %x%/EFI/grub/ntloader uuid=%?_UUID% initrd=/EFI/grub/initrd.lz1 hires=0 file=/VHD/SX70211.vhd

title WIN7X64-SVBUS (/VHD/SX70211.vhd)-chainloader ntloader-vhd-svbus-RAMOS
find --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /EFI/grub/ntloader | set x=
echo x=%x%
find --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd --set-root /VHD/SX70211.vhd
map --mem --top /VHD/SX70211.vhd (hd)
uuid (hd-1,0)
chainloader %x%/EFI/grub/ntloader hires=0 uuid=%?_UUID% initrd=/EFI/grub/initrd.lz1

You only need to modify /VHD/SX70211.vhd, the folder where vhd is located, and the name of vhd, and the rest basically do not need to be modified.
I didn't succeed with the kernel initrd method.
Ntloader: use GRUB4DOS to start VHD/WIM-GRUB4DOS-under BIOS/uefi-worry-free startup forum-Powered by Discuz! http://bbs.wuyou.net...40&extra=page=1

Edited by liuzhaoyzz, 18 March 2021 - 10:35 AM.

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#278 alacran

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 10:51 PM

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@ liuzhaoyzz

 

Thanks my friend, very good info.  No problem for your delayed answer, it is always better late than never.

 

@ All:

 

For your convenience, opening following spoiler, you will find English translation of  a1ive's topic [Original] NTloader: Boot VHD/WIM with GRUB4DOS under BIOS/UEFI, mentioned on previous post by liuzhaoyzz: http://bbs.wuyou.net...40&extra=page=1

 

Spoiler

 

Attached you can find grub4dos-grub2-directory_menu.rar downloaded from liuzhaoyzz's link: https://liuzhaoyzz.l...com/iGCnjn2d5dg

 

This is a1ve's ntloader page in github: https://github.com/a1ive/ntloader

 

You can download a1ve's ntloader last version from: https://github.com/a...ases/tag/latest

 

alacran

Attached Files


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#279 zammibro

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 06:40 PM

Chenall compiled lately a new version of Grub4DOS-for-EFI . Given that, and a simple fact of life that some forum members aren't so advanced and can't read between lines, can someone answer ALL the following questions:

 

1. Did Chenall complile the @yaya2007's version of Grub4DOS, or instead he added @yaya2007's code to his own version of Grub4DOS that he develops for quite awhile and most legacy folks use now?

 

2. Can Grub4DOS-for-EFI be installed instead of regular Grub4DOS on a Legacy BIOS Intel Windows 10 64-bit PC? Once installed, will it boot ISO images with EFI partition, intended for boot on an EFI PC? Or, Grub4DOS-for-EFI is only intended for newer PCs with native EFI support, to add multiboot option to them?

 

3. How exactly step-by-step one can remove present Grub4DOS install on a Legacy BIOS PC C: drive and replace it with Grub4DOS-for-EFI linked above? Will it be equivalent replacement? If not, how one can use one or the other Grub4DOS version when needed?

 

4. "For the record" :), download link in 1st post no longer alive.


Edited by zammibro, 13 May 2021 - 07:07 PM.


#280 steve6375

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 07:05 PM

Grub4dos uefi only boots via uefi.
It only has a similar menu system and commands to grub4dos legacy.
Think of it as an alternative to grub2.
Grub2 can legacy boot or uefi boot, but the boot mechanism is completely different even though the menu structure and commands are similar. The boot files are completely different.
So grub4efi sits in parallel with grub4dos, it can co-exist
but in no way replaces legacy grub4dos.
It should be called grub4efi to avoid confusion as it has nothing to do with DOS and cannot run DOS.

#281 zammibro

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 07:12 PM

And relying on that clarification, how exactly step-by-step one can add it to a hard drive on a legacy Win 10 PC? And not surprising, how one can call it - by adding as a new line to Windows Boot Manager menu? With what parameters? Will Grub4EFI work on a BIOS only PC?

 

 

 

GRUB4DOS now adds experimental UEFI support (by @yaya2007).

 

 

if it doesn't boot BIOS images and drives, why indeed not to change the name to GRUB4UEFI to avoid endless confusion of unsuspecting community? 


Edited by zammibro, 13 May 2021 - 07:20 PM.


#282 steve6375

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 07:22 PM

Uefi boots from a .efi file and from a fat partition.
So you for usb booting, you would create a fat32 partition and copy the bootx64.efi file to the /efi/boot partition.
Any uefi 64 bios will boot from that partition.

#283 zammibro

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 07:29 PM

How about booting with Grub4EFI an EFI ISO from internal hard drive, and NOT from USB thumb?


Edited by zammibro, 13 May 2021 - 07:40 PM.


#284 steve6375

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 07:55 PM

Same thing. Boot from the efi file - load the grub4efi menu - boot using a menu entry.



#285 zammibro

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 08:22 PM

Same thing. Boot from the efi file - load the grub4efi menu - boot using a menu entry.

 

Sorry, this is not a detail instruction a reasonable person would find adequate for a novice using Windows PC. No examples either. By now 12 pages of this topic - and no-one is able to present a clear instruction for a novice, how to add this thing to a Windows PC? Does it require a dedicated FAT32 or EFI partition, located at the internal HDD start? What are the exact Grub4DOS commands, etc.

 

Before discussing VHD boot issues with grub4efi, would it be reasonable to at least explain how to add this to a PC in a concise step-by-step guide anyone can repeat? It will engage a lot more people to the discussion. This is what I consider a sacred duty of any OP presenting a new bootloader or program.


Edited by zammibro, 13 May 2021 - 08:26 PM.

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#286 steve6375

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 08:28 PM

It is not intended for novice users.
It can be booted to in the same way as any efi boot file.
It is best to boot from a usb drive for now.

#287 zammibro

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 11:38 PM

 

GRUB4DOS now adds experimental UEFI support (by @yaya2007).

 

 

Nice to hear that. Can you explain in concise numbered steps using "code formatted" examples as needed, how to add Grub4EFI to a Windows HDD, and boot an EFI Linux ISO with it via Grub4DOS added to Windows Boot Manager menu?



#288 alacran

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 04:34 AM

@ zammibro

 

About:

 

And relying on that clarification, how exactly step-by-step one can add it to a hard drive on a legacy Win 10 PC? And not surprising, how one can call it - by adding as a new line to Windows Boot Manager menu? With what parameters? Will Grub4EFI work on a BIOS only PC?

 

Grub4dos boots only on Bios/CSM machines.

 

Grub4dos for UEFI boots only on UEFI machines.

 

A PC can only boot in accordance with its Bios/firmware, if it is only Bios it will not be capable to boot as UEFI.

 

But many UEFI firmwares let you select to boot as Bios/CSM or UEFI and some (as my Asus) let you select both and during boot (and using F8 Key) I can boot from HD 0 as Bios/CSM and from HD 1 as UEFI or from USB XXX or USB XXX UEFI.

 

The more recent PCs are only UEFI and DO NOT have anymore an option to boot as Bios/CSM, and you are forced to boot on UEFI ALWAYS

 

If we format a USB device (as MBR) with a first partition FAT32 active we can install and use Windows boot manager with BCD files for Bios and also for UEFI, grub4dos, grub4dos for UEFI and also Alive's Grub2 in that device, (see: USB Format Tool and UEFI_MULTI ), so we will be capable to boot with same device on a Bios/CSM PC or on another UEFI PC.

 

If the files you want to boot are:

 

1 - WinPE ISOs or WIM files based on 8.1 or newer, and as long as when made they were prepared to boot on Bios and also on UEFI they will boot on Bios or UEFI PCs.

 

2 - In the case of Linux ISOs mayority of them are capable to boot on a Bios/CSM PC or on another UEFI PC.

 

3 - If you want to boot Windows VHDs on a Bios/CSM PC or on another UEFI PC they have to be 8.1 or newer, for a wimb's program to help you make all things almost automatically see: VHD_WIMBOOT it contains also a PDF file with detailed instuctions.

 

NOTE: Win 7x64 is not fully compatable with UEFI.

 

EDIT:

 

It will be good if you take a look to this Post: http://reboot.pro/in...462#entry218144

 

And just to keep all info together here I quoted additional info from this wimb's post:

Spoiler

 

Hope my comments can make things more clear to you.

 

alacran


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#289 steve6375

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 08:26 AM

Nice to hear that. Can you explain in concise numbered steps using "code formatted" examples as needed, how to add Grub4EFI to a Windows HDD, and boot an EFI Linux ISO with it via Grub4DOS added to Windows Boot Manager menu?

grub4dos cannot be added to the UEFI Windows bootmanager- grub4efi cannot be added either.

 

You need to realise that the UEFI version of Microsoft 'bootmgr'  bootmgrfw.efi will ONLY load Microsoft efi boot files. It will not load other bootloaders such as grub2 or rEFInd or grub4efi.

The BCD can be configured to boot to Windows efi files, Windows .wim files or Windows VHD files - that's it!

 

bootmgfw.efi - the Windows boot manager on systems with UEFI firmware. This file is loaded directly from the Windows Boot Manager entry in the Firmware Boot Menu stored in NVRAM. Typical boot process is Firmware Boot Manager > \EFI\Microsoft\boot\bootmgfw.efi on the EFI System Partition is loaded via the Windows Boot Manager entry > bootmgfw.efi loads the BCD file (path to BCD file - \EFI\Microsoft\boot\BCD).

 

That is why, if you want a Windows+Ubuntu UEFI system, you first install Windows and then install Ubuntu - because Ubuntu will add the grub2 UEFI boot files to the EFI System FAT boot partition and then set the UEFI BIOS boot order to boot to the grub2 UEFI boot file. From the grub2 menu you can then boot to Windows (via bootmgfw.efi) or use a menu entry to boot to the Ubuntu kernel.

So you cannot do what you are asking.

If Windows UEFI has been installed, it will have told the BIOS firmware boot manager to boot from the bootmgfw.efi file on the hard disk.

If you really want to boot grub4efi from a system which already has Windows 10 on it, you could simply copy the grub4efi files to the ESR partition. This would overwrite the \efi\boot\bootx64.efi file with the grub4efi version.

Then to boot to that file, you would need to press your BIOS Boot selection menu key (e.g. F8/F10/F12 or whatever) and select that FAT partition so that it boots from the default boot file (\efi\boot\bootx64.efi) instead of the Windows boot file. OR you could create a separate Primary (if not GPT disk) FAT32 partition just for grub4efi and any ISOs, etc. you want to add.

P.S. You would also need to disable Secure Boot in the BIOS.


Edited by steve6375, 14 May 2021 - 09:16 AM.


#290 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 May 2021 - 09:03 AM

@zammibro

To hopefully clarify further, UEFI in itself is (stupidly) a "primary" bootmanager.

I.e. it allows to choose which (among many) .efi file on device you want to boot, this (it depends on the specific implementation) can be obtained by either adding a .efi file to the NVRAM of the machine (and in this case each time you boot you are prompted to choose a .efi file) or - on the fly - by pressing a key when booting.

Then, once the chosen .efi file is chosen, it all depends on the features it has, grub4EFI and the EFI grub2 allow to "chainload" other files/loaders/etc., the Windows one doesn't.

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#291 zammibro

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 04:55 PM

A PC can only boot in accordance with its Bios/firmware, if it is only Bios it will not be capable to boot as UEFI.

 

 

Wow... Pls add this citation if true to the 1st topic post, thus making it explicitly clear for stupidities like me and the rest of us.

 

Yes, but...  how about booting ISO & VHD UEFI images? They are routinely booted on a BIOS PC from a USB thumb with Grub2 bootloader. Even Hackintosh images are booted with Clover from USB thumb on a BIOS only Intel PC. I boot daily such Linux UEFI images on my BIOS only laptop. Something contradictory to your explanation? If I can boot such images from a USB thumb - then the next logical question is: how to boot them from an HDD on the same BIOS only PC?

 

Yet, there are no miracles no matter how you name it, like Grub4DOS for UEFI - does it even make sense? And further - what is the purpose to develop such program? Hope the purpose is to boot UEFI images from a BIOS only PC, otherwise... what are its perceived & potential advantages compare to existing UEFI volume boot methods?


Edited by zammibro, 15 May 2021 - 05:28 PM.


#292 steve6375

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 05:12 PM

http://www.easy2boot...things-to-know/
Grub4dos for efi is another uefi multiboot manager, like grub2 uefi and syslinux uefi. Many people use grub4dos legacy, so grub4efi uses the same menu system and similar commands.
It is in development, it may be better or worse or just different. There are many makes of car in the world, many operating systems, many makes of TV - why not boot managers?

#293 alacran

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:34 AM

@ zammibro

 

Yes totally agree grub4dos for UEFI name was very bad selected, and even on http://bbs.wuyou.net...read&tid=422652  where the developer started the topic, many people prefer to call it G4E.

 

it was devoped to be used ONLY under UEFI environments, not to boot UEFI images from a BIOS only PC.

 

G4E can't use an equivalent to grldr.mbr (as old grub4dos does on Bios) on UEFI PCs because of UEFI design, so it do not exists, but there are other ways, I will not talk of them as your concern is about Bios only PC.

 

A PC can only boot in accordance with its Bios/firmware, if it is only Bios it will not be capable to boot as UEFI.

 

Bios programs do not have the required code and internal drivers to boot on UEFI environment, Bios programs are very small and older than UEFI firmware, so UEFI was not developed yet when they were written.

 

UEFI firmwares have the required code and internal drivers to boot on UEFI environment, and on the contrary are big enough and can content also Bios code and drivers required to boot on Bios/CSM/legacy mode.

 

But many new OEM PCs are now only UEFI, and there is no more an option to select Bios/CSM/legacy mode, then is when G4E or grub2 can be used as we used before old grub4dos on Bios PCs.

 

From my post No. 288

 

If the files you want to boot are:

 

1 - WinPE ISOs or WIM files based on 8.1 or newer, and as long as when made they were prepared to boot on Bios and also on UEFI they will boot on Bios or UEFI PCs.

 

2 - In the case of Linux ISOs mayority of them are capable to boot on a Bios/CSM PC or on another UEFI PC.

 

3 - If you want to boot Windows VHDs on a Bios/CSM PC or on another UEFI PC they have to be 8.1 or newer, for a wimb's program to help you make all things almost automatically see: VHD_WIMBOOT it contains also a PDF file with detailed instuctions.

 

NOTE: Win 7x64 is not fully compatable with UEFI.

 

The files you are actually booting (using grub4dos) on your Bios only PC, that you think are UEFI only, very possible meet the conditions mentioned on the quote so are bootable on Bios and on UEFI environments, and in your case they are booting on Bios mode, they NEVER could boot as UEFI on a machine that is Bios only, it is not possible, as Bios lacks all required for this.

alacran


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#294 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 09:41 AM

@zammibro

Clover is a different beast, it provides a (partial) EFI implementation to BIOS only PC's.

 

On a normal (older) PC or on a newer one with CSM enabled (Compatibility Support Mode, in practice use BIOS instead of UEFI):
1) Switch on

2) BIOS

3) bootmanager or bootloader making use of BIOS services

4) OS

 

On a normal (UEFI) PC:

1) Switch on

2) UEFI

3)bootmanager or bootloader making use of UEFI services

4) OS

 

On a (older) PC with BIOS and Clover:

1) Switch on

2) BIOS
3) Clover

4) EFI (emulated by Clover)

5) bootmanager or bootloader making use of EFI services provided by Clover

6) OS

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#295 zammibro

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:08 PM

On a (older) PC with BIOS and Clover:

 

So if one installs Clover bootloader to a Legacy BIOS only PC hard disk MBR sector (?) and a drive volume (1st volume formatted as FAT32 of what size - mandatory?), the BIOS only PC will be able to boot images in UEFI mode, including MAC OS (Hackintosh) images?

 

What are the limitations of Clover in this regard, and would it be possible to chainload Grub4DOS UEFI from it to boot Linux UEFI images from the same HDD (and how)? What tool would allow to install Clover in this manner, and add "chainload other bootloaders" options to its CFG or Menu file? I assume, standard things like adding Windows Bootmanager are done automagically, but non-standard like adding G4E would require manual config or a special tool?


Edited by zammibro, 16 May 2021 - 02:22 PM.


#296 zammibro

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:21 PM

they NEVER could boot as UEFI on a machine that is Bios only, it is not possible, as Bios lacks all required for this.

 

I appreciate your detail explanation and concise point of view, however even on this forum folks endlessly developed special drivers and plethora of tools, which enabled boot capabilities long forbidden in Windows of Bill Gates era. Just roll back the time machine to see such categorical statements can be challenged by someone dedicated to the cause any time.  :D



#297 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 04:24 PM

Never used Clover, nor Hackintosh images, however, start here:

https://www.aioboot....loader-windows/

https://www.aioboot....clover-to-grub/

 

:duff:

Wonko



#298 alacran

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Posted 23 May 2021 - 12:18 AM

JFYI

 

I have to recognize that it is in fact possible to UEFI boot on a only Bios PC, by means of AIO_boot + Clover.

 

For detailed info of my tests please see: Testing UEFI booting on a only Bios PC

 

alacran



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Posted 27 May 2021 - 07:54 PM

Hello, spammer.

#300 Tokener

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Posted 19 June 2021 - 11:33 AM

Thank you Sirs

 

I ran into similiar problems like Vortex did @#22:

 

Backed up /EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi file to /EFI/Boot/bootx64_org.efi

Backed up /EFI\Microsoft\boot\bootmgfw/.efi file to /EFI\Microsoft\boot\bootmgfw_org.efi

replaced files as discribed above.

 

my menu.lst (UTF-8)

 

timeout 10
default 0

title Windows 10
chainloader /EFI/Boot/bootx64_org.efi

title ^Ctrl+d commandline
commandline

title [F3] reboot
reboot

title halt
halt

 

G4E stopped at the command line, then I tried some commands - but no boot.

Zwischenablage03.jpg

 

I tried G4E-2020-12 and G4E-2021-01 with no success. In the picture you see the files I tried.

 

What else can I try?

 

Thank you in advance   T.

 

Edit: PC is VirtualBox 6.0 - no SecureMode

Also tried the "Chainloader" and "Configfile" command -> Error 28 (Selected item cannot fit into memory)

Zwischenablage04.jpg

 






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