Jump to content











Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Let's talk about Virtualization


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 09 October 2009 - 12:16 PM

Hello,

From http://www.colinux.org/ web page :

Cooperative Linux is the first working free and open source method for optimally running Linux on Microsoft Windows natively. More generally, Cooperative Linux (short-named coLinux) is a port of the Linux kernel that allows it to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single machine. For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows 2000/XP, without using a commercial PC virtualization software such as VMware, in a way which is much more optimal than using any general purpose PC virtualization software.

it is a good idea,but I want to do something better. Why ?

For a lot of reasons :

a) Linux has a better file system than Windows.
b) Linux is safer than Windows
c) Wine is good,but it doesn't offer the best compatibility with Windows
d) Virtualization software is good for almost every kind of Windows software (except for games) but it takes too much resources on the computer
e) Linux needs to offer the maximum compatibility for Windows professional applications and for newbies
f) Linux lacks a lot of drivers

#2 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 09 October 2009 - 01:20 PM

I like coLinux, I feel I will like more when it becomes cooperative Windows 2003/XP-x64 :hypocrite:

#3 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 09 October 2009 - 02:40 PM

Jus for the sake of discussing :(:

a) Linux has a better file system than Windows.
-_- Linux is safer than Windows
c) Wine is good,but it doesn't offer the best compatibility with Windows
d) Virtualization software is good for almost every kind of Windows software (except for games) but it takes too much resources on the computer
e) Linux needs to offer the maximum compatibility for Windows professional applications and for newbies
f) Linux lacks a lot of drivers


a. highly debatable :smart:
b. highly debatable :lol:
c. Hmm, ;), but the whole point of WINE is to be able to run Windows apps WITHOUT needing a Windows OS License, I mean what do you want, blood? <_<
d. Sure. :hypocrite:
e. Sure :thumbsup:
f. ...but everyday this is less true....;)

However 2 valid ;) reasons (besides the 4 debatable ones) are more than enough.


Cleared that there are good reasons for such a project, what do you have, besides a possible name for it? :frusty:

Don't want to put you down, mind you :hypocrite: , but I suspect that this would be a very ambitious project, for which lots of knowledgeable resources would be needed, call me cinical, if you like, but I have seen so many projects on SourceForge abandoned in ""1 - Planning" or "2 - Pre Alpha" stage or that never released anything working, that I am a bit skeptical :hypocrite:.

;)

jaclaz

P.S.: anyone wanting to try running colinux, read this:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4283
(just in case)

#4 karyonix

karyonix

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 472 posts
  •  
    Thailand

Posted 09 October 2009 - 05:17 PM

a)
Do you plan to run Windows on Linux filesystem ?
You will need a filesystem driver for it.
- Local fielsystem if Windows is in a separate partition or disk image.
- Network filesystem if you want to share filesystem with host.
Can Windows run from network filesystem ? I don't know.

d)
LinE may need much resource on the computer just like existing virtualization software.
I think it is difficult or almost impossible to adjust amount of guest Windows RAM while guest is running.
You have to pre-allocate guest RAM just like other virtualization software.
Display adapter+keyboard+mouse is another major component. You need guest drivers for them.
Or let Windows take control of the real display adapter+keyboard+mouse, user can still access Linux host by network.
Another possibility is let Windows have its own display adapter separated from host's display but that is what I call "too much resource".

#5 Icecube

Icecube

    Gold Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 1062 posts
  •  
    Belgium

Posted 10 October 2009 - 06:26 PM

Maybe you are interested in the Linux Unified Kernel project, which aims to unify the Linux kernel with the Windows kernel so that even Windows device drivers can be run on this Linux kernel:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=9356

CoLinE,where <Co = Co-operatively and LinE = LinE Is Not an Emulator> could be a method that allows <Windows> to run Co-operatively alongside <Linux> on a single machine. It should allow one to freely run <Windows> on <Linux>, without using DUAL BOOT and commercial PC virtualization software.

LinE is a bad name, because it sounds more like running Linux on Windows like CoLinux.
CoWine would be more correct in my opinion.

#6 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 11 October 2009 - 09:03 AM

CoWine would be more correct in my opinion.


Hmm, it sounds a lot like "Wine Co", which would be a good name for an import/export of grape derivates.....:hypocrite:

:hypocrite:

jaclaz

#7 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:57 AM

Forget the name. I'm studying a way to run Windows in a native way + Linux at the same time. I have almost everything in my mind. It is about mixing a lot of sophisticated techniques.

#8 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10544 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:03 AM

I'm studying a way to run Windows in a native way + Linux at the same time


I use virtualbox for this task. The seamless mode or fullscreen works good enough.

:lol:

#9 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 04:56 PM

HI ALL !!! :lol:

Linux is not jealous. You can replace your current Windows installation with Linux (like I did several years ago and never looked back) or you can set it to run together with Linux....

Options:

1. DualBoot

WindowsDualBoot:
https://help.ubuntu....WindowsDualBoot

Illustrated Dual Boot Site:
http://members.iinet....au/~herman546/


2. Mix

coLinux

http://www.colinux.org/

CoLinux Portable Ubuntu for Windows

http://www.pendrivel...tu-for-windows/

andLinux

http://www.andlinux.org/

3. Virtual


VirtualBox

http://www.virtualbox.org/

4. Linux Unified Kernel

Better than all this in my opinion is Seamless integration
with Linux Unified Kernel....

http://linux.insigma...cn/en/index.php

The official description of Linux Unified Kernel says that:

Linux Unified Kernel is an open source project, we hope that through developing Linux OS to be compatible with Windows applications, more and more people could access to Linux, then use and like it. It's not easy to change one's habits, but the goal is worth our joint efforts.
If you are interested in this project and eager to be one team member of us, please contact us by e-mail with your resume or phone call; if you participate in the part-time development, our open modules are available; if you just are a user of Linux Unified Kernel, your feedback or bug report is also a valuable contribution. No matter which form you choose, we all hope that there will be more open-source enthusiasts and Linux enthusiasts to participate in the development of Linux Unified Kernel project and do his bit to help the development of Linux.

# Using Linux Unified Kernel

You can just run your Windows applications on the Linux Unified Kernel as an ordinary user. We are willing to receive your views and suggestions of Linux Unified Kernel.

# Testing Linux Unified Kernel

You can also use a variety of Windows applications to test Linux Unified Kernel. If you found any problem through testing, you can tell us in the forums, and we will fix it as soon as possible.

Posted Image

Unified Kernel Binary Downloads:

http://linux.insigma...en/download.php

:lol:

#10 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:29 PM

1) I dislike dualboot,because I want to use Linux and Windows at the same time

2) coLinux is good,but I don't want to run Linux on top of Windows. It makes no sense for me,because between them,the less secure is Windows. If your Windows installation is damaged,you can't run Linux (together with Windows) anymore. And again,I like the ext2/3 fs more than the ntfs fs.

3) I don't like so much the virtual machines,because they takes to much resources on your computer and you haven't the maximum compatibility. I'm talking about to play games,for example.

4) Linux Unified Kernel seems to be good,but it is in a early stage. I read all around that a lot of applications crash and I'm sure that you can't play games using it.

I'm studying a project where I can use a native installation of Windows and Linux at the same time. I know,this is not so good,because you have to pay a license to use Windows,but I don't care. I want the maximum compatibility from the two o/s.

#11 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10544 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:40 PM

I'm studying a project where I can use a native installation of Windows and Linux at the same time. I know,this is not so good,because you have to pay a license to use Windows,but I don't care. I want the maximum compatibility from the two o/s.


This is interesting.

When you have reached some conclusions, do share them with us.

I'd really like to know more about this.

:lol:

#12 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:49 PM

Linux Unified Kernel seems to be good,but it is in a early stage. I read all around that a lot of applications crash and I'm sure that you can't play games using it.


I don't play games I don't have time for that...but...more than 300 games are available for Linux today...there is no perfect solution for playing Windows games under Linux....and I don't want start - the "windows is crap" thread here - it is the endless story :lol:

I'm studying a project where I can use a native installation of Windows and Linux at the same time. I know,this is not so good,because you have to pay a license to use Windows,but I don't care. I want the maximum compatibility from the two o/s.


Look into this if you want to pay :

Win4Lin
http://win4lin.com/wp/

:lol:

#13 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:09 PM

No,no,don't worry. I think that Windows is useful as Linux. There is nothing better than something else,in absolute terms. Only what meets perfectly your needs is perfect (for you). I tried win4lin some time ago,it's a crap ;)If there is no perfect solution for playing Windows games under Linux...then you can try to imagine to a good solution and maybe it will born. Imagination is more important than knowledge,said Albert Einstein.

#14 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:17 PM

If there is no perfect solution for playing Windows games under Linux...then you can try to imagine to a good solution and maybe it will born. Imagination is more important than knowledge,said Albert Einstein.


NIce for hard core gamers :lol:

And go ahead, let the imagination ruin the video game - Windows - industry :lol:

#15 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:26 PM

I don't care about the video-games-Windows industries : I want it all and I want it now,as said Freddy Mercury. My goal is to do everything I want at the same time in every place where I am :-)

#16 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:32 PM

I don't care about the video-games-Windows industries : I want it all and I want it now,as said Freddy Mercury. My goal is to do everything I want at the same time in every place where I am :-)


Until software companies start making all of their software standards compatible with Linux , the end-user (me & you ) doesn't stand a chance.

This looks really good but is not free:

http://unigine.com/products/unigine/

P.S.
Gaming is a lot of people's only reason to stay with Windows.

#17 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:47 PM

what is this ? You can play Windows games on linux with it ? Anyway I don't think that gaming is the people's only reason to stay with Windows. At least here in Italy,where I live,there is a reason even more important,it is that many people do not know how to use Windows at all and they believe that Linux is too difficult to understand.

#18 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:18 PM

HI ALL !!! :lol:

Linux is not jealous. You can replace your current Windows installation with Linux (like I did several years ago and never looked back) or you can set it to run together with Linux....


Surely not, but it does has a number of zealots promoting it. :lol:

One of the very few reasons why I never completely "switched" to Linux (and do not intend to do so in the next foreseeable feature) is because people like so much to hijack threads just for saying how good is Linux.

This thread was already started in the Linux section, it already has the aim to hopefully integrate Linux with Windows, the OP obviously knew the adantages (or disadvantages) of Linux from the start, colinux, andlinux, virtualbox and Unified Linux Kernel were already mentioned, so what remains of your posts? :lol:


jaclaz

#19 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:53 PM

Surely not, but it does has a number of zealots promoting it. :lol:


Also, a Linux "zealots" would be horrified with militant Windows "advocates". :lol:

One of the very few reasons why I never completely "switched" to Linux (and do not intend to do so in the next foreseeable feature) is because people like so much to hijack threads just for saying how good is Linux.


Its a matter of opinion and intelligence.


This thread was already started in the Linux section, it already has the aim to hopefully integrate Linux with Windows, the OP obviously knew the adantages (or disadvantages) of Linux from the start, colinux, andlinux, virtualbox and Unified Linux Kernel were already mentioned, so what remains of your posts? :lol:


Double posts, who really cares its not like its a big deal. :lol:


P.S.
"The best software is the one that you know how to use"

for 3 years at major ISP like tech support - I'm sick of any kind of pc & support forums now...

i will back to my audio forum..... dont worry B)

i have peace there.... finally :)

Cheers :lol:

#20 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:16 PM

I would like that everyone suggests NEW solutions for integrating Windows with Linux. Please provide practical ideas,not vague and useless topics.

#21 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:33 PM

Please provide practical ideas,not vague and useless topics.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Even small things, like freedom to choose how the text and background
of a technical board are displayed can and will contribute
to the pursuit of happyness.....


The source for this page has been copied from somewhere in the web, we apologize to the author for the inconveniences.


Logged in as: Mikorist & (bye) :lol:



#22 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:47 PM

This project is not dead. I'm working on it. I've had an idea about how to build it. I'm not a coder,so I can't create new ideas,but I can aggregate more old ideas into a new one. The idea is to allow people to use windows and linux at the same time,without using virtualization,right ? We can do it,trying to achieve two different sub-projects :

1) install Windows into RAM,using Firadisk. At the moment I did it

I think that we could install Windows natively,but I dislike that the less secure operating system is the host of the most secure o/s,that's linux,so I've tought that the only thing I can do is to secure Windows,because Linux can be started from Windows only,viceversa it's not possible.

2) install Colinux on Windows before that it will be mapped into RAM

Now I'm on a midpoint between these sub-projects

I want to create a protected area with only the windows folder inside,because this is the most critical area. Viruses, trojans go there and they alter the correct working of Windows.
The other folders, as users, programdata and program files could be kept outside. Programs can be installed / users can be added as usual,but they will be saved outside the virtual image. Using this way,we will not lose important informations when we reboot the computer and windows will be secured. There are many programs that work without having to write information inside the registry,so we don't have to worry that after having installed them and rebooted the computer,they will stop working.
For all others programs,we can use portable applications.

To use portable applications is the best way to make sure that Windows always work well,because nothing will write informations inside the registry,so it can't be corrupted. Virues no longer make sense to exist,because the most important windows files are untouchable and there aren't files circulating scattered (a portable application is a compact exe files that remains as is when it is installed)

This is a way to use the same installation of windows for long,long time.
I'm waiting for your suggestions.

#23 Marietto

Marietto

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Italy
  • Interests:Computers,movies,read/write,talking about philosophy and religion.
  •  
    Italy

Posted 15 November 2009 - 01:12 PM

Project almost finished :

Windows 7 loaded into Ram + Ubuntu 9.04 native running together.

Attached Thumbnails

  • WinDux.jpg
  • WinDux2.jpg


#24 Mikorist

Mikorist

    ▂ ▃ █ ▅ ▆

  • Advanced user
  • 771 posts
  •  
    United Nations

Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:58 PM

Project almost finished :

Windows 7 loaded into Ram + Ubuntu 9.04 native running together.


Hey, man. Great work! :cheers:


I Am, Back Again - Thanks to Nuno :clap:

#25 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10544 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 02 December 2009 - 02:09 PM

Marietto, why not starting a new topic about windux on our project forge section?
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=64

Today, I've also made available http://w07.net to be used a short URL for Windows 7 projects.

Why not requesting one right now for your project?
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=9884

:clap:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users