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Synaptics-Styled addons manager


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#1 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 02:53 AM

Ok, here's an idea I think you all will like. I propose that a Synaptics-styled addons manager should be added into Winbuilder. I'm thinking that not only could it download different OS builds from WinBuilder, but possibly also different addons, like program scripts, updates to individual program scripts, etc. Heck, maybe it could use the Subversion engine.

So, for those who do not know what Synaptics is, (you'll be forced to learn Linux sooner or later ;)) Synaptics is a package manager which is found in several Linux Distributions. Basically what it does is contact a server, find out what available programs (or packages) are available for download, and at the same time checks for updates, then you can install them with a few clicks of the mouse. It's amazing, and would also be just as amazing, if not more, in Winbuilder.

I hope you guys like it :whistling:

#2 Galapo

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 02:57 AM

I'm wondering how this differs from the current WinBuilder Download Manager? Sounds much the same at first glance.

Regards,
Galapo.

#3 homes32

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 02:08 PM

I'm wondering how this differs from the current WinBuilder Download Manager? Sounds much the same at first glance.

Regards,
Galapo.


Synaptics will check for and download dependencies if needed. I think this is perhaps what TGP1994 is hoping for?????

#4 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:15 PM

Synaptics will check for and download dependencies if needed. I think this is perhaps what TGP1994 is hoping for?????


I actually wasn't thinking that, but now that you mention it, that's an excellent idea. And Galapo, how long has there been a download manager? I don't remember seeing anything like Synaptics in it :whistling:

#5 Galapo

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:59 PM

And Galapo, how long has there been a download manager? I don't remember seeing anything like Synaptics in it :whistling:

For years. The way you described I couldn't see much difference so needed further explanation.

Having dependencies would require a total re-write both of WB itself as well as every existent script. I fear that dependencies is too complicated a web for WB to manage. Besides, in nativeEx-based projects we have Verify which can accomplish dependency checks.

Regards,
Galapo.

#6 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 10:57 PM

For years. The way you described I couldn't see much difference so needed further explanation.

Having dependencies would require a total re-write both of WB itself as well as every existent script. I fear that dependencies is too complicated a web for WB to manage. Besides, in nativeEx-based projects we have Verify which can accomplish dependency checks.

Regards,
Galapo.


I dunno, I don't think it would require a total rewrite. It would be more like an addon. It simply makes an XML file with downloaded addons and their versions, then checks for updates. If there are, it downloads them to the respective scripts folder. And for the dependencies, we'd just have to specify them in the scripts. We'd probably have to make some sort of universal ID system, which I admit, could complicate things.

So wait, I'm confused. You're saying that dependencies are too dificult, but then you say we already have them?

And I guess if the whole dependency thing is too much, I would just be fine with an addon browser build in that automatically checks for updates and downloads what we want.

#7 Galapo

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:09 PM

It simply makes an XML file with downloaded addons and their versions, then checks for updates. If there are, it downloads them to the respective scripts folder.

To me, that sounds exactly what the Download Centre currently does.

And for the dependencies, we'd just have to specify them in the scripts.

Exactly. But there's that word "just" -- "just have to specify them in the scripts". This is no small task! And then the WB Download Centre would require a re-write so as to be able to work with such dependency specification.

So wait, I'm confused. You're saying that dependencies are too dificult, but then you say we already have them?

Yes, but not in the Download Centre, only on a project run. And dependencies are only checked on certain scripts which list dependencies. The web of dependencies given certain selections can get very involved, and I'm not sure if the Download Centre is the best place to manage this given that a user upon download can change script selections thus altering dependencies.

Regards,
Galapo.

#8 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:20 PM

To me, that sounds exactly what the Download Centre currently does.


Exactly. But there's that word "just" -- "just have to specify them in the scripts". This is no small task! And then the WB Download Centre would require a re-write so as to be able to work with such dependency specification.


Yes, but not in the Download Centre, only on a project run. And dependencies are only checked on certain scripts which list dependencies. The web of dependencies given certain selections can get very involved, and I'm not sure if the Download Centre is the best place to manage this given that a user upon download can change script selections thus altering dependencies.

Regards,
Galapo.


This download center you keep mentioning... it isn't the place where you can select weather you want LiveXP, Vista, or w/e, is, it? It wouldn't seem terribly complicated to change then.

And I still don't see why this dependency thing is so complex. A script checks what it needs, asks each of those scripts what they need, and moves on. And so what if a user edits a script? There's so much more that can go wrong by someone editing a script.

#9 Galapo

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:26 PM

I guess I can only speak as the project mantainer of LiveXP. Writing dependencies can be a nightmare. I cannot see how the Download Centre could work any better than the currently available Verify. Like I said, upon download as soon as a user makes a different script selection (not editing a script as you wrote, which is a different thing entirely; we now have in place a certification method to check this) then dependencies can drastically change. The Download Centre cannot predict this.

Regards,
Galapo.

#10 Lancelot

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:40 PM

A script checks what it needs, asks each of those scripts what they need, and moves on.

As galapo wrote, it already exists not in download section but with verify during build.
Here is a test for you:
download livexp from server, select finish\2 Create Image\bootsdi, unselect Drivers\4 Ramdisk\vFiraDisk.Script and Drivers\4 Ramdisk\uWin2k3_RamdiskSys.Script, select an xp(sp2 or sp3) source for the build,
When you hit big blue play button, You will get a warning that you cant build bootsdi because you havent selected either vfiradisk or uwin2k3_ramdisk.sys

And so what if a user edits a script? There's so much more that can go wrong by someone editing a script.

IF user edits the script, it is his responsibility. IF user selects different options on the script it is also checked by verify if required.


I dont have practice with what Synaptics is, so far i remember i downloaded miktex with the way you describe which is the same winbuilder does.
Project administrators organise scripts in a way that when user downloads minimum, recommended, complete or beta, user get all dependent scripts. So no need to check scripts dependencies.
Example:
If i upload a.script dependent on b.script to a server, I will be sure that b.script is has a high or same download priority with a.scrip
*
If a.script have minimum download level than b.script have minimum download level
*
If a.script have recommended download level than b.script have minimum or recommended download level
*
If a.script have complete download level than b.script have minimum or recommended or complete download level
*
If a.script have beta download level than b.script have minimum or recommended or complete or beta download level

I hope you know agree we dont need to check dependencies of scripts during download because all dependent script already there. If not than it is project administrator fault.

What i understand from your describtion is:
On download section selecting a.script automatically select b.script to download. I believe the hard work that should be done for such a task wont have much gain since we already have 4 levels of download which satisfies most user. Well it is up to the development decision but my vote is "not necessary"


Just my idea :whistling:

#11 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:45 PM

Well, I guess if you actually think we don't need dependency checks at all, I'm ok with that. How about just a nice addon browser, that the community can contribute too freely?

#12 Lancelot

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:50 PM

Well, I guess if you actually think we don't need dependency checks at all,

on download section, yes i think that way.

nice addon browser for what ? to check dependencies of script or ?

#13 TGP1994

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:52 PM

on download section, yes i think that way.

nice addon browser for what ? to check dependencies of script or ?


Well, kind of a like a centralized downloads center. Skipping the whole dependency thing, I think it would be nice if we could download script addons for things like programs, utilities, etc., then get updates for them too. I'm not saying things like LiveXP or LiveVista. I'm thinking smaller here.

#14 Lancelot

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:55 PM

TGP1994

I dont get what you mean, we already have centralized download center for scripts and some utilities (like 7z.exe)

Sorry for my bad english if i miss sth, Can you give an example?

#15 TGP1994

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:02 AM

TGP1994

I dont get what you mean, we already have centralized download center for scripts and some utilities (like 7z.exe)

Sorry for my bad english if i miss sth, Can you give an example?


I think what you're saying is the one on this website, am I correct? What I'm saying is one that is build into WinBuilder.

#16 Lancelot

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:07 AM

What is "one on this website" ? Can you give a link ?
What is "one that is build into winbuilder" ?

#17 TGP1994

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:36 AM

What is "one on this website" ? Can you give a link ?
What is "one that is build into winbuilder" ?


What is the one you are talking about? For the website, I'm talking about this. I'm asking for one to be built into WinBuilder.

#18 Lancelot

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:50 AM

So you are talking about the individual scripts, If there is dependency, script author probably write to introduction of the script.

If you want to built one of them with winbuilder, you need to select a project first.

Continuing with LiveXP,

After downloading LiveXP with winbuilder, download an individual script (example) and copy it to a proper location (ex: \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\MyScripts\) and make a build.
ps: most of the scripts on these section already exists in LiveXP project, petter check here for individual scripts.

And a question:
Are you asking invidual scripts centralised distribution through winbuilder download ?

#19 TGP1994

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 01:54 AM

So you are talking about the individual scripts, If there is dependency, script author probably write to introduction of the script.

If you want to built one of them with winbuilder, you need to select a project first.

Continuing with LiveXP,

After downloading LiveXP with winbuilder, download an individual script (example) and copy it to a proper location (ex: \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\MyScripts\) and make a build.
ps: most of the scripts on these section already exists in LiveXP project, petter check here for individual scripts.

And a question:
Are you asking invidual scripts centralised distribution through winbuilder download ?


Yes, and I wanted to eliminate the part where you said

After downloading LiveXP with winbuilder, download an individual script (example) and copy it to a proper location


Where instead, WinBuilder had a built in browser where you could auto download and/or update scripts.

#20 Lancelot

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 02:37 AM

Where instead, WinBuilder had a built in browser where you could auto download and/or update scripts.


Now we are getting to somewhere ;)

The problem is, One should check the scripts if they are still working, and probably would modify scripts if required. Also One should seperate the scripts which are specific to projects (only for LiveXP, only for VistaPe ..... etc)

With the same idea with you I thought "Apps Scripts" server to put common scripts (which works on all project) but there is a problem, Every project have its own folder ! To make a general server we need a kind of folder junction on serverside (I dont know if it is possible or not, This requires Nuno's comment)

Well I like to work on LiveXP, Without having an option currently available, I proceed with LiveXPExtra server ;), which downloads the scripts I verified working (once) for LiveXP
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=7433
and one can still copy scripts after downloading to other projects.

I dont put scripts that i havent tested (and there are many waiting), but this is a nice point to start for a new user :whistling:

Edit: I also update the server time to time when i find time, it is an alive server ;)

#21 dera

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 03:26 AM

Yes,
i think the main problem with the scripts came from
Boot Land > Downloads > App scripts section
i would say those script are so called 'As is'

no guarantee whether currently the script works or not
in which conditions can it work
which WinBuilder version needed
if works in which project can it work
or which version of the project needed

#22 TGP1994

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 08:27 PM

Yes,
i think the main problem with the scripts came from
Boot Land > Downloads > App scripts section
i would say those script are so called 'As is'

no guarantee whether currently the script works or not
in which conditions can it work
which WinBuilder version needed
if works in which project can it work
or which version of the project needed


Ya, I was thinking these scripts would be provided on a project basis, like for Livexp, or different projects. With this script manager thing, (I guess I'll call it that now,) people should have the ability to vote scripts, and report them as broken. Now how awesome would that be?




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