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#1 maanu

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 09:35 PM

so in theory this driver is a working alternative to the well known diskless angel driver ? :)

and now there is no size limit in ram booting ? :)

#2 bilou_gateux

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 09:48 PM

so in theory this driver is a working alternative to the well known diskless angel driver ? :)

and now there is no size limit in ram booting ? :)


Yes, it's a working alternative. 3 validated tests.

karyonix (developper): image size?
joakim (advanced user): 2,3Gb
bilou_gateux ("trial and error" user):
With my box (3 Gb), after loading hdd.img (640 Mb) in RAM , i still have 2.4 Gb free RAM under Windows XP
The maximum size of your hdd image depends of your box available RAM.
Successfully created my image at 06:20 PM
Booted hdd.img to RAM and working from it until now 10:48 PM
No crash, no error, nothing. :cheers:

Check it yourself using karyonix how to, don't read my questions and joakim answers to avoid errors. I'm just an user who want to learn more.

#3 joakim

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 12:58 PM

One question for the new version;

Can it handle more than one disk image like;

map --mem (cd)/main.dsk (hd0)

map --mem (cd)/extra.dsk (hd1)

.............

I got som weird BSOD ....CA?

Can supply debug information if interested..


Joakim

#4 karyonix

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 01:25 PM

One question for the new version;

Can it handle more than one disk image like;

map --mem (cd)/main.dsk (hd0)

map --mem (cd)/extra.dsk (hd1)

.............

I got som weird BSOD ....CA?

Can supply debug information if interested..


Joakim

I never test loading from CD before. The error is probably from FiraDisk wrongly calculate sector size (512 or 2048) when image was loaded from CD.
Please check the lines that look like
FiraDisk:   Detected RAM drive class=1 addr=0x3e08e000 len=16450560 bps=512 spt=63 tpc=255
from debug output.
Do the address and length match your (RAM size-image size), (image size).
Thanks.

#5 was_jaclaz

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 01:34 PM

Can it handle more than one disk image like;

map --mem (cd)/main.dsk (hd0)

map --mem (cd)/extra.dsk (hd1)

.............


Wouldn't this be a limitation of grub4dos? :rofl:

OT, but not much :frusty:, what about using the (rd) device of grub4dos (similarly to the hmload DOS tool does)? :frusty:

******************************************************************************
*** About the DOS utility `hmload' ***
******************************************************************************

This program was written by John Cobb (Queen Mary, University of London).

John Cobb's note:

To make use of the ram drive feature I wrote a program `hmload' to load
an arbitrary file to an arbitrary address in high memory. The program
is not very sophisticated and relies on XMS to turn on the A20 line.
(Also one must be very careful to steer clear of any areas of memory
already in use).

Under Linux we generated a disk image `dskimg' (with the kernel and
Initrd and a partition table).

Using this our boot procedure looked something like this:

hmload -fdskimg -a128
fixrb
<unload network drivers>
grub

map --ram-drive=0x81
map --rd-base=0x8000000
map --rd-size=0x400000
root (rd,0)
kernel /kernel root=/dev/ram0 rw ip=bootp ramdisk_size=32768 ...
initrd /initrd
boot

See http://sysdocs.stu.q...ent/GrubForDOS/ for details.

Update 2007-12-05:

Now the MAP command can handle gzipped (rd) image. One can use this
feature with the hmload utility. For example,

step 1. Load the gzipped image under DOS at a relatively low address:

hmload -fdskimg.gz -a16

step 2. Unload network drivers.

step 3. Run GRUB.EXE.

step 4. At the grub prompt, run these commands:

map --rd-base=0x1000000 # set rd-base address to be 16M
map --rd-size=<the accurate size of dskimg.gz in bytes>
map (rd)+1 (hd0) # This will decompress (rd) and place
# the decompressed image at the top end
# of the extended memory. The (rd)+1
# here has special meaning and stands
# for the whole (rd) device. You must
# use (rd)+1 instead of (rd).
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
kernel /kernel root=/dev/ram0 rw ip=bootp ramdisk_size=32768 ...
initrd /initrd
map --unhook
map (hd0) (hd0) # Delete the map; this is needed.
boot


jaclaz

#6 joakim

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 01:53 PM

OT, but not much :frusty:, what about using the (rd) device of grub4dos (similarly to the hmload DOS tool does)? :frusty:


I am not at all familiar with these commands. Would it have to be issued before "map --hook" after first "map --mem"? Or maybe before the first "map --mem", or as a substitute for both "map --mem's"? Would FiraDisk be able to handle this?

Joakim

#7 was_jaclaz

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 02:16 PM

I am not at all familiar with these commands. Would it have to be issued before "map --hook" after first "map --mem"? Or maybe before the first "map --mem", or as a substitute for both "map --mem's"? Would FiraDisk be able to handle this?

Joakim


It was an idea directed to Karyonix, not a "direct" solution to multiple image loading, a possible feature that may in the future be added to Firadisk.

The idea of using the (rd) device is that you can use an arbitrary memory address for it.

Using the map --mem, my guess is that by loading the secoond image you overwrite first one.

Back to the specific problem you posted, I cannot see WHY you need to load two images in RAM at boot time (i.e. why you cannot load the second later through another driver, like IMDISK).

:frusty:

jaclaz

#8 joakim

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 02:40 PM

Back to the specific problem you posted, I cannot see WHY you need to load two images in RAM at boot time (i.e. why you cannot load the second later through another driver, like IMDISK).


There is currently no practical use for it as I can see. It was just raised as a question for the new version that handles multiple virtual drives;

map --mem &#40;hd0,0&#41;/guest.iso &#40;hd32&#41;

map --mem &#40;hd0,0&#41;/hdd1.img &#40;hd1&#41;

map --mem &#40;hd0,0&#41;/flop.img &#40;fd1&#41;

That's the only reason why I asked (but also related to an earlier question about utilizing unmanaged memory (ie, + 3,2 Gb on 32-bit))

Are you (jaclaz) implying that 2 x "map --mem.." disk image to (hdx) is impossible with grub4dos, regardless of OS?

Joakim

#9 Icecube

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:25 PM

Using the map --mem, my guess is that by loading the secoond image you overwrite first one.

No, it doesn't.
Each new mapping uses new RAM and doesn't overwrite the older mapped disk (maybe not if you memory map 2 files to the same drive, but that is stupid anyway if you want to see them both).

If you memory map the UBCD50b12 iso and load programs that use the Freedos image, FreeDos is able to access the memory mapped iso (while it is loaded itself from a memory mapped floppy image).

#10 was_jaclaz

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:49 PM

Are you (jaclaz) implying that 2 x "map --mem.." disk image to (hdx) is impossible with grub4dos, regardless of OS?


No, it was simply a guess, which Icecube quickly deemed as untrue. :frusty:

jaclaz

#11 joakim

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:56 AM

I tried double disk image mapping yesterday with the diskless angel driver like;

map --mem &#40;cd&#41;/main.dsk &#40;hd0&#41;

map --mem &#40;cd&#41;/extra.dsk &#40;hd1&#41;

map --hook

It booted fine, but second disk image gets lost and is non-existant when system has booted. It only proves that grub4dos can in fact work it out, but the driver don't recognize it, and cannot keep it reserved memory.

Joakim

#12 oriensol

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 03:02 AM

A general observation:

I seem to get a warning when I use the 'map --mem /x.img (hdx)' with the images created using mkimg.cmd regarding number of sectors etc., even if I pick the 'canned' numbers from the calculator excel sheet or otherwise. Perhaps I am doing something wrong.

But when I use the hd image created using clonedisk (of erwan.l) I do NOT get any warning for the 'map --mem' command.

#13 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:08 AM

Perhaps I am doing something wrong.


Post an example of a size and geometry that gives you the error. (AND the error the image created with those parameters give).
It is very possible that there is a glitch somewhere in the baches.

:whistling:

jaclaz

#14 oriensol

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:48 AM

@jaclaz

Thanks. I looked at everything carefully - the problem was that I was using 16/63 for geometry whereas I was taking the value from the column that was for 255/63. Now it is fine. Sorry for the post.

By the way, I was/am not able to generate the cmd from the Excel sheet using Office 2007. While I get the link within the Excel, the file doesn't get saved in the current directory, with or without my clicking it.

#15 joakim

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:38 AM

By the way, I was/am not able to generate the cmd from the Excel sheet using Office 2007. While I get the link within the Excel, the file doesn't get saved in the current directory, with or without my clicking it.

What spreadsheet are you referring to? From what you describe it sounds like one I uploaded a few weeks ago (cannot really remember where).

If it's mine, then you should know that it was primarily meant for the usual 63/255 geometry for use together with vdk.

There is something in the macro that prevents the cmd and the descriptor to be generated in current directory (although the link is there in the spreadsheet). You have to save the spreadsheet to slightly different name and then push the buttons one more time and they will be generated in current directory. If you look inside your "My Documents" folder they are very likely there...

Anyways, I will have a new look at jaclaz's mbrbatch to see what actually prevented me from getting it to work (I guess alternative location of, or multiple instances of vdk - could be the problem). This batch should be the preferred way, as it's an AIO solution.

Joakim

#16 oriensol

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 09:06 AM

@joakim

You are correct.

you had written:

I do it manually with the dsfok tools and vdk with the help of a spreadsheet; http://www.mediafire.com/file/yzgt41cgzxt/..._calculator.xls


Thanks for the clarification. Anyway, I am happy with the jaclaz tool :whistling:

By the way, firadisk seems to be fine for the disk images. Waiting for the next version which supports the CD isos fully.

#17 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 04:17 PM

@Karyonix
Sorry for the OT. :whistling:

@oriensol
JFYI:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2959

jaclaz

#18 xclimbing

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 02:23 AM

@ karyonix :

Great work!

I'm the admin of grub4dos Chinese forum. Because of GFW, guys in China cannot download FiraDisk files from the site you gave without a proxy. Can I put your files in my site for a mirror?

the mirror url is: http://nufans.net/grub4dos/FiraDisk/

If there has any problems. please inform me. you can reach me by xclimbing (at) msn.com.

Good luck!

#19 karyonix

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 08:29 AM

@Climbing
You can host the files at your site. Please inform your users that this driver is still in developmental stage. It may not be stable or work as expected. There is no warranty of any kind. Use it at your own risk.

#20 rocketero

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 05:33 PM

I have read a few pages of this issue, but I still don't see clear what is the objective of this mentiones 'hard disk driver FiraDisk'.

apparently seems to me it's to boot images of operating systems into memory.

I have been working with VMWare Workstation for quite a few years now and to me is most similar, as I can create as many operating systems I want, say windows xp, vista, linux, windows 7, all kind of servers, etc.

I can boot several at the same time compared to this solution here where only one can be boot at one time.

it's similar in the way that the operating system booted run from RAM but can use phisicall resources from the computer or from the newtork it's running on.

So please don't jump all over me at the same time. I just want to see an explanation of what and why this is different from what I have been doing for quite a long time.

regards.

#21 was_jaclaz

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 05:46 PM

Well, you don't really need a PE or any other OS directly booting from "external" media as long as your PC (please read as the OS on which you installed VMware) boots allright.

You may need one the day it fails ;) or you get one of those really nasty virii ;), to clean the infection, for recovery purposes or to re-install your "main" OS, which was the reason for which originally the PE (Pre-boot Environment) was conceived for.

Firadisk driver is a possible solution to booting such an "external" Operating System in a rather convenient way.

It is NOT "new" in the sense that similar methods have been devised since the release of Server 2003 SP1, but they either have some limitations (either in capacity or in licensing) or they are oiutright Commercial.

Firadisk also sports several additional features theat a lot of people have been looking for in order to ease the above listed chores.

And of course there are a lot of people, expecially here on boot-land, that fiddle with PE's and other "strange" OS setups just for the fun of it.

jaclaz

#22 bobsobol

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:21 PM

I usually find that booting a VM (while it may ease the number of drivers required on the guest) is not much help for a live disc, thought DOSbox and such can be useful for analysing data on NTFS or e2fs partition with DOS tools and such.

The problem is still booting from Read Only media. The reason is that most OS want to set up virtual memory and write out boot logs and hardware configuration changes at start up, and they can't do that from a CD or DVD normally... if the drive image is loaded into RAM before it is booted, then that is writeable, and booting can proceed normally.

Linux has been doing this for a long time, originally with write protected boot floppies... DOS could do it, because you can fool DOS quite easily, and because DOS will map everything to a RAM disk quite easily. But the NT kernel structure (except the special PE builds) are not designed to operate on ROM media, and do not cope with it well.

The PE imposes some restrictions on applications that can run under it, so being able to run a normal (non-PE) NT kernel from RAM is a great help for getting all your recovery tools running on a machine that has crashed beyond booting from the hard disk, or for forensic investigation of a drive that you *NEED* not to write to, even by booting it up.

#23 DaemonForce

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:29 PM

I still see no point but wow this thread blew up. I guess a majority of people like it for some reason. I'll stick to my Pocket Disc and file filter. :cheers:

I never see the point in the ramdisk. It's an external writable partition. Okay I get that much. Got it.

Uhmmm...When I need write access to the system(READ: CD), what is the point? :loleverybody:

I guess this is another bullet dodged if you just boot from USB but I invest too much in certain things to be doing that.

After reading through again I still don't get it. This mounts and runs a system image?

#24 Zaphod

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:47 AM

Some of us just like the performance from running an OS from a ramdisk. I enjoyed that functionality in my Amiga years ago, and I've been looking for a good way to do it for Windows for years. Looking forward to tinkering with this driver.

Out of curiosity, has anyone attempted to get a similar project running for OSX?

EDIT: I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of booting to an OS image that has been hibernated. What kind of boot times can we accomplish?

#25 led9

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:41 AM

>jaclaz
Please make the working fira-boot-driver for Windows xp 64 bit :loleverybody:




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