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#1 lew247

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:46 PM

I'm making a winbuilder disk for use by me mainly to help fix and maintain computers, and possibly I may lend it to a few friends to use as well.

I'll be using winbuilder 078

It has to be simple with all the main programs haveing icons on the desktop, so my friends can use it easily especially if they dont know a lot about computers.

What programs/scripts do people recommend for this purpose?
Preferably freeware ones obviously.
So far I've decided I need
a good antivirus program
a proper file shredded ideally with a choice of shredding options such as 1 pass wipe 7 passes etc (to securely delete any files they shouldnt have or dont want)
A good free space wipe to secure the hard drive without deleting any information needed to keep
I'd like to include Dban (if it isnt classed as warez) but its an isolinux file and I've no idea how to include it in the build.
Or any other good secure wipe program
Obviously xp and vista startup repair included
A good keyfinder that can find the keys for any windows builds on the hard drive (kp keys, vista keys and microsoft office keys preferably) so that If the drive needs to be wiped, the keys can be recovered to reinstall using the original keys

Any suggestions for other programs needed or that would be helpful please?
also if you have a link to any scripts for those programs please

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 02:33 PM

If you plan to "lend" the CD to your friends, you should go for an Open Source or Freeware ONLY solution (please read Linux based).

Redistribution is an infringement of the MS EULA.

Apart from the legal standpoint, something is simply NOT right:

a proper file shredded ideally with a choice of shredding options such as 1 pass wipe 7 passes etc (to securely delete any files they shouldnt have or dont want)

:)
There is NOT any need to do ANYTHING more than a single pass.
Please read these:
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=131832
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=125900
(AND links in them)

Apart from the legal standpoint, something is simply NOT right:

I'd like to include Dban (if it isnt classed as warez) but its an isolinux file and I've no idea how to include it in the build.

Dban is perfectly "kosher":
http://www.dban.org/
as it is BOTH Freeware and Open Source

It is ALREADY part of several "recovery/partitioning/wiping" oriented distro's, and it can be mapped allright from grub4dos through .iso mapping:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5041
http://www.boot-land...?...c=5041&st=2

:)

jaclaz

#3 MedEvil

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:11 PM

It has to be simple with all the main programs haveing icons on the desktop, so my friends can use it easily especially if they dont know a lot about computers.

This sentence alone suggests to not include any tools but rather a bunch of games. To protect the computer from your friends. :)

:)

#4 lew247

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:16 PM

I've searched and CANNOT find anywhere in a microsoft EULA saying I cannot lend it or give it to friends.

By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.
If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.
1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software on your devices.
2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE RIGHTS. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1, certain portions of the software, as described in this Section 2, are provided to you with additional license rights. These additional license rights are conditioned upon your compliance with the license restrictions described in this Section 2 and Section 3.
• Windows Pre-Installation Environment. You may install and use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for purposes of diagnosing and recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for any other purpose, including without limitation as a general operating system, as a thin client or as a remote desktop client.

• ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll, Wimfilter and Package Manager. You may install and use the ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll and Wimfilter and Package Manager portions of the software for recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use these portions of the software for any other purpose, including without limitation for purposes of backing up your Windows operating system.
3. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not
• work around any technical limitations in the software;
• reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;
• make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
• publish the software for others to copy;
• rent, lease or lend the software;
• transfer the software or this agreement to any third party; or
• use the software for commercial software hosting services.

I cannot see anything that says I cannot give it to anyone, and it actually says that I can make a PE disk for the purposes of diagnosing and recovering Windows operating system software which is exactly what I want to do.
I do NOT want to make a permanant operating system, I only want to make a CD that will diagnose and help fix windows installations, including but not limited to having antivirus checking software and other tools to help diagnose and repair windows installations.
It does not say anywhere that I can see that I can only use it myself?


Anyone else read this different to me?

#5 lew247

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:25 PM

This sentence alone suggests to not include any tools but rather a bunch of games. To protect the computer from your friends. :)

:)


My reason for wanting it is I'm the one they usually call to come fix it when they have any problems with their computer such as virus, popups and other things, I think with the right programs I could make the cd so they can fix it themselves and save me going to do it for them.
It also helps teach them that computers are easy to fix wioth a little help

#6 was_jaclaz

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:30 PM

Anyone else read this different to me?


Try searching in the following text for keyword "lend":

By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.
If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.
1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software on your devices.
2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE RIGHTS. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1, certain portions of the software, as described in this Section 2, are provided to you with additional license rights. These additional license rights are conditioned upon your compliance with the license restrictions described in this Section 2 and Section 3.
• Windows Pre-Installation Environment. You may install and use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for purposes of diagnosing and recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for any other purpose, including without limitation as a general operating system, as a thin client or as a remote desktop client.
• ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll, Wimfilter and Package Manager. You may install and use the ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll and Wimfilter and Package Manager portions of the software for recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use these portions of the software for any other purpose, including without limitation for purposes of backing up your Windows operating system.
3. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.
You may not
• work around any technical limitations in the software;
• reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;
• make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
• publish the software for others to copy;
• rent, lease or lend the software;
• transfer the software or this agreement to any third party; or
• use the software for commercial software hosting services.


Heck, in my day "where's Wally" was a lot more tricky.....:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where's_Wally

jaclaz

#7 lew247

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:44 PM

Whoops
Your right :)


However there is no mention of the word SELL?
so theoretically I could sell it to them for the price of the blank cd?

#8 was_jaclaz

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:29 PM

However there is no mention of the word SELL?
so theoretically I could sell it to them for the price of the blank cd?


3. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.



If you SELL something that you do not OWN, you are usually committing a crime (at least morally, different countries may have different laws and punishments, if any, for this), and making your friends commit one of either (you choose):
THEFT
or
SALE or RECEIPT of stolen goods.

(or BOTH) :)
http://legal-diction...onary.com/theft
http://legal-diction...stolen property

Unless they manage to prove they are:
http://legal-diction...ocent Purchaser

It seems to me a rather steeep road to take. :)

:)

jaclaz

#9 lew247

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 07:38 PM

Silly question, but what if you build a cd using winbuilder and DONT use WAIK? say for example you use a vista dvd as the source?

Failing that does anyone know any way to build a repair cd for windows using linux? but still have xp and vista repair/recovery functions, antivirus, file shred, disk wipe, keyfinders and all the other programs that would be needed?

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:34 PM

Since our PE is not a WinPE. The EULA of WinPE does not apply, but the one of the SourceCD one's building from.

In this sense, selling is only possible together with a license.
Giving CD away for free should be legal, using it without holding a license surely not.
The EULA of XP home generally states (or has stated?), that one can install XP to as many computers as one likes to, as long as at any given time there is never more than one computer used /running.

Thus having 1 valid license and testing the build PE in a VM is illegal. :)
Having 1 license and using the PE, once the computer can't start with the default XP anymore, is not.

:)

#11 was_jaclaz

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 06:23 AM

In this sense, selling is only possible together with a license.

You cannot sell something that you don't own, you can only transfer the License (and software).

Giving CD away for free should be legal, using it without holding a license surely not.
The EULA of XP home generally states (or has stated?), that one can install XP to as many computers as one likes to, as long as at any given time there is never more than one computer used /running.

NO. Redistribution is NOT allowed.


Most (read nearly ALL) XP licenses are OEM ones.

They are valid ONLY on the specific hardware they were sold bundled with.

Just think a bit about the matter. why would BartPE be a builder?
Why Winbuilder is a builder?
Why UBCD4WIN is a builder?

Wouldn't be easier build a working CD and make the .iso downloadable, telling users that they can only use it if they own a valid license?

Why Autostreamer got the cease and desist letter?
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2960

Thus having 1 valid license and testing the build PE in a VM is illegal.

Only if you run it under Windows and under the same one, if you run the VM under Linux you are fine.

The WAIK license is in this aspect more "liberal", though you can use it:

solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software on your devices.


jaclaz

#12 lew247

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:46 AM

Since our PE is not a WinPE. The EULA of WinPE does not apply, but the one of the SourceCD one's building from.

In this sense, selling is only possible together with a license.:)


I'm more confused now.

I would prefer not to sell it anyway.
As I said 2st I wanted to give it to people who needed it or could use it (lend possibly but I could just give it)
If I'm using a winbuilder build then that has no licence restrictions?

Could I give it with a licence of some sort, maybe telling them that they cannot use it as an operating system, it can only be used for diagnosing/fixing their computers and they must comply with any licences for any software on the cd?

The idea of having it as a download could be possible, although if their pc is borken to start with then it wont be much help.

#13 was_jaclaz

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 08:16 AM

lew247,
let' clear this part.

You are free to do whatever you want :), including redistributing MS files, in every which way you want/can.

You have been simply warned about the fact that the act of redistributing files:

sell, advertise, auction, bargain, barter, be in business, boost, clinch the deal, close, close the deal, contract, deal in, dispose, drum, dump, exchange, handle, hawk, hustle, market, merchandise, move, peddle, persuade, pitch, plug, puff, push, put across, put up for sale, retail, retain, snow, soft sell, soft soap, spiel*, stock, sweet talk, trade, traffic, unload, vend, wholesale, lend, add, advance, afford, allow, bestow, confer, contribute, entrust, extend, furnish, give, grant, impart, lay on one, lend-lease, let, loan shark, oblige, permit, present, provide, shark, stake, supply, trust, lease,charter, hire, let, loan, rent out, sublease, sublet, distribute, administer, allot, apportion, appropriate, assign, bestow, circulate, consign, convey, cut up, deal, deal out, diffuse, disburse, dish out, dispense, disperse, dispose, disseminate, divide, divvy up, dole out, donate, endow, fork out, give, give away, hand out, issue, lot out, measure out, mete, parcel, partition, pass out, pay out, present, prorate, radiate, ration, scatter, share, shell out, slice up, sow, strew, transfer, assign, bear, bring, carry, cart, cede, change, consign, convert, convey, deed, delegate, deliver, dislocate, dispatch, dispense, displace, disturb, express, feed, ferry, find, forward, give, hand, hand over, haul, lug, mail, make over, metamorphose, move, pass on, pass the buck, post, provide, relegate, relocate, remove, sell, send, shift, ship, shoulder, sign over, supply, taxi, tote, transfigure, translate, transmit, transmogrify, transmute, transplant, transport, transpose, turn over, publish, announce, bring out, broadcast, circulate, communicate, declare, disclose, distribute, divulge, let it be known, print, proclaim, produce, promulgate, publicize, put in print, put out, report, spotlight

you do not own is a clear infringement of most if not all MS EULA's.

:)

jaclaz

#14 MedEvil

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 10:52 AM

You cannot sell something that you don't own, you can only transfer the License (and software).

And if one transfers the license for money it's called selling, if i'm not mistaken.


NO. Redistribution is NOT allowed.

Don't know about Italy, but in Germany i have the right to resell everything in bought, even a license.

Most (read nearly ALL) XP licenses are OEM ones.

They are valid ONLY on the specific hardware they were sold bundled with.

This coupling of products has been ruled to be illegal years ago. Don't know if in Germany or in the EU.
Anyway, it's legal to sell a OEM copy without hardware.

Just think a bit about the matter. why would BartPE be a builder?
Why Winbuilder is a builder?
Why UBCD4WIN is a builder?

Wouldn't be easier build a working CD and make the .iso downloadable, telling users that they can only use it if they own a valid license?

My best guess is different laws in different countries. Or maybe more to the point, since nobody is making money from this nobody ever tryed, if he could really get away with it against M$ wishes.

Why Autostreamer got the cease and desist letter?
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2960

Just because someone threatens you, to sue you, doesn't even mean that he thinks he can really win, just that he thinks he can bully you.
Besides that, i have no idea how this looks legaly, since the software Autostreamer wants to redistribute is never sold and Autostreamer hold no license whatsoever. It has actually no legal claim to anything to fight about, i think.

Only if you run it under Windows and under the same one, if you run the VM under Linux you are fine.

Yep.

:)

#15 was_jaclaz

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 12:34 PM

And if one transfers the license for money it's called selling, if i'm not mistaken.

You are not mistaken, but you are mistaken :).

If you want, transferring the license "is" selling it, but it will happen only once, and you won't have it anymore after the deal. (this is what selling AND transferring means, they are synonyms in this case)

And what you "sell" is not the software (which you do not own) but the License for it.

The topic is about giving, distribute, make available something (actually a copy of it) AND keep the original, which is NOT allowed.


In the particular case of the WAIK license:

• transfer the software or this agreement to any third party;

you cannot even transfer the software OR the license/agreement. :)

The agreement/license, in different countries (and by regional/local Laws/tribunals) may or may not be deemed as either not applicable, void (in which case one must distinguish between void ex nunc or void ex tunc), or not legally binding.

I personally would point on the last two, but without something more than:

This coupling of products has been ruled to be illegal years ago. Don't know if in Germany or in the EU.
Anyway, it's legal to sell a OEM copy without hardware.

or similar apodictic, unreferenced statements, I wouldn't go as far as risking on it.

Legal matters are matters for lawyers, anything which comes from any of us, is just the way we think we understand an agreement, and the way how each of us personally thinks that he/she can decide to ignore it's contents or interpret them as one wishes.

In any case a line has to be drawn: Anglo-saxons and Romans have an alltogether different approach to Law (please read as Common Law vs. Civil Law):
http://en.wikipedia...._(legal_system)

OT, but JFYI:
http://www.msfn.org/...t=0#entry756705


jaclaz

#16 Immortal

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 12:35 PM

Seems to be a lot of "agents" from M$ in this community.
Acting as polices and judges.
Accusing and humiliate people in several ways.
Not only in this thread!
Really sad reading.
That is MY opinion.
Or perhaps it is not allowed to have an opinion in this forum???

#17 was_jaclaz

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 12:50 PM

Or perhaps it is not allowed to have an opinion in this forum???

Sure it is allowed to have an opinion. :)

It would be appreciated however if the opinion would be more accurately targeted/motivated/explained. :)

Specifically, you can have (and express/discuss/debate/argue over) all the opinions in the world, on matters/topics, it is when you start focusing them on people and their opinions that you must be very careful and aware of Rule #7:
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules

7. You are expected to be mature when discussing in threads. Racism, pornography, threatening, profanity, or excessive vulgarity is not tolerated. :) This community is built upon mutual respect. You are not allowed to flame other members. People who do not respect personal opinions and/or personal work will be warned in first instance. If you ignore the warning and keep on flaming, you will be banned without notice.


jaclaz

#18 MedEvil

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 02:35 PM

Besides agreeing that we're no lawyers. (Thank god, else i would have to hate myself! :))

And what you "sell" is not the software (which you do not own) but the License for it.

The topic is about giving, distribute, make available something (actually a copy of it) AND keep the original, which is NOT allowed.

You're actually contradicting yourself here. If the license covers the use of the software, like it is, then one can not use the software without owning a license, but one can distribute the software without the license.

In the particular case of the WAIK license:

you cannot even transfer the software OR the license/agreement. :)

I'm sure that's the way M$ would prefered the world to work, in order to maximize profit. Pretty much as the whole software industry tries for years to get the same kind of protection by the government that hardware has, for their products, but still running it under copyright, to not fall under all the safety any liability regulations.

Don't forget, copyright is what protects books for ages. Do you think, that anyone can tell you, that you are not allowed to sell or give away as a present, a book you've bought? Libraries are even lending them out without being sued!

I wouldn't go as far as risking on it.

That's imo, the main workhorse of the whole 'law business'. Fear.

- Let's say the law states that one can move freeely up to the drawn line in the sand.
- Then a big mighty company comes and says, if anyone get's nearer than 10 feet to that line, we will sue the hell out of him.
- People react by staying 20 feet away to not risk getting sued. Thus not only not making use of their rights granted by the law, but actually cutting it even back way more than anyone has even tryed to force them.

Something like 3-4 years ago, i think. There was a case in Germany, where people got letters from a law firm telling them to pay between 100 and 200 Euro for copyright infringement or the whole thing would go to court and they be sued for 10000 Euro.
It was estimated that about 80 to 90 percent of all people getting this letter payed out of fear of getting sued.
The ones which didn't payed.....well, they didn't had to pay anything cause not a single case went to court.


To truely believe in the 100% rightfulness of M$ EULA, M$ spends itself way too much time in court for my taste. :)

Other examples of similar tactics would be piratebay, attacked for ages, yet still open.
Which proves, that there is a world of difference between what people claim they can do legaly and what they really can do.


;)

#19 Immortal

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 02:50 PM

Besides agreeing that we're no lawyers. (Thank god, else i would have to hate myself! ;))


You're actually contradicting yourself here. If the license covers the use of the software, like it is, then one can not use the software without owning a license, but one can distribute the software without the license.


I'm sure that's the way M$ would prefered the world to work, in order to maximize profit. Pretty much as the whole software industry tries for years to get the same kind of protection by the government that hardware has, for their products, but still running it under copyright, to not fall under all the safety any liability regulations.

Don't forget, copyright is what protects books for ages. Do you think, that anyone can tell you, that you are not allowed to sell or give away as a present, a book you've bought? Libraries are even lending them out without being sued!


That's imo, the main workhorse of the whole 'law business'. Fear.

- Let's say the law states that one can move freeely up to the drawn line in the sand.
- Then a big mighty company comes and says, if anyone get's nearer than 10 feet to that line, we will sue the hell out of him.
- People react by staying 20 feet away to not risk getting sued. Thus not only not making use of their rights granted by the law, but actually cutting it even back way more than anyone has even tryed to force them.

Something like 3-4 years ago, i think. There was a case in Germany, where people got letters from a law firm telling them to pay between 100 and 200 Euro for copyright infringement or the whole thing would go to court and they be sued for 10000 Euro.
It was estimated that about 80 to 90 percent of all people getting this letter payed out of fear of getting sued.
The ones which didn't payed.....well, they didn't had to pay anything cause not a single case went to court.


To truely believe in the 100% rightfulness of M$ EULA, M$ spends itself way too much time in court for my taste. :)

Other examples of similar tactics would be piratebay, attacked for ages, yet still open.
Which proves, that there is a world of difference between what people claim they can do legaly and what they really can do.


:)


Thanks MedEvil.
At least ONE "old" member is NOT agreeing with jaclaz
and have the "guts" of talking back!
Thanks again...

#20 was_jaclaz

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 02:56 PM

Besides agreeing that we're no lawyers. (Thank god, else i would have to hate myself! :))


:)

Some quotes:

A lawyer is a learned gentleman who rescues your estate from your enemies and keeps it for himself.


Once (says an Author; where I need not say)
Two Trav'lers found an Oyster in their way;
Both fierce, both hungry; the dispute grew stong;
While Scale in Hand Dame Justice pass'd along
Before her each with clamour pleads the Laws.
Explain'd the matter, and would win the cause,
Dame Justice weighing long the doubtful Right
Takes, opens, swallows it, before their sight.
The cause of strife remov'd so rarely well,
"There take" (says Justice), "take ye each a shell.
We thrive at Westminster on Fools like you:
'Twas a fat oyster -- live in peace -- Adieu."

http://books.google....Y...;q=&f=false

A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers.



And, back to topic ;):

I don’t know what to say so I’ll just say what’s in my heart…badoom, badoom, badoom.


:)

jaclaz

#21 MedEvil

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 03:58 PM

;) :)

:)




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