316 replies to this topic

[erwan.l]

Hi Voyajer,
The video idea is great.

Looks like your windows is re locking the drive during the restoring : could there be a process nagging back at the volume?
That would be wierd thus as the first I do is to delete the drive layout so starting there you should no longer see the logical drive(s) for this disk.

Looks like I have to re think my logic.

Oddly enough, I did not encouter this issue on my home win7.

I'll work on it asap.

Regards,
Erwan.

[Wonko the Sane]

In fact I wrote a little test app for restoring images to a physical drive, but I don't think we really need another cloning/imaging tool that does basically the same thing as others.

What I meant was just a very basic app to replace ONLY the part about locking/unlocking/unmounting/offline/whatever, i.e. something capable of replacing the "primitive" method by joakim and "do the right thing", sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Something like:

If you have problems under windows 7 or 2008, put the disk offline using diskpart, if you have problems under Vista , delete the Disk Signature.
If you have problems with *ANY* program having direct access to \\.\PhysicalDrive under BOTH Vista and 7/2008, run this nice little app by TheK immediately before the one is giving you the problem.

I personaly need a simple Win32 GUI application capable to do a simple, basic thing: to produce and upload back exact RAW images.
This thread (A tool like this exists? more like clonedisk) didn't help.

Right idea, wrong thread.

Here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=16534
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=100299

A simple Win32 GUI application to make a disk image is curiously named (Roadkil's) Disk Image :
http://www.roadkil.net/
http://www.roadkil.n.../P12/Disk Image


Wonko

[erwan.l]

Hi Voyajer,

Download it again.
Now, after the delete drive layout command, I also send a disk update command.
I also set a tempo of 500ms for the system to acknowledge it.
I expect the first error you get at offset 0 to be gone for good (hope so...).

The second error you get is still "access denied" ?
It is wierd you get at byte offset 192086016 (about 183mb) = sector 375168 = 2931 blocks of 64kb.
Could it be a write error / media issue?

Regards,
Erwan.

[ksanderash]

Wonko

A simple Win32 GUI application to make a disk image is curiously named (Roadkil's) Disk Image

Of course. I know about it. Under Windows 7 it does read, but ...doesn't writes A feel like a there is a problem with direct write on Windows 7



That apps listing I also saw many times. The majority of them are Linux, DOS, and commercial Win32. The minority (1-2 apps) does suit to my needs -- Dubaron DiskImage and Roadkil Disk Image. The last one doesn't work yet (I think abt giving some feedback to author), the first ...doesn't work too!

We have not a one (ok, RM is) working Freeware GUI application to do the job?!

...

Erwan, bonsoir! Tres content de toi voir

Downloaded, checked, have no good news. It gets to writing only if the UFD is freshly inserted. After some read(or write) access (Explorer, CloneDisk itself), it refuses to allow further write image access by CloneDisk. Now I'll get my ass at the second PC, with different OS and flash. (then why the hex-editor and RMPrepUSB do work...)

The second error you get is still "access denied" ?

Yep, error still here, and it's floating. Have a look:



The media is clear of suspicion -- every time after succesful image upload I do MD5 check of many many thousands files on the file system. It's FAT32, btw.

[erwan.l]

Erwan, good evening!

Downloaded, checked, have no good news. It gets to writing only if the UFD is freshly inserted. After some read(or write) access (Explorer, CloneDisk itself), it refuses to allow further write image access by CloneDisk.

Yep, error still here, and it's floating. Have a look:



The media is clear of suspicion -- every time after succesful image upload I do MD5 check of many many thousands files on the file system. It's FAT32, btw.

Very strange... clonedisk starts writing a few hundreds mb so one could thing you are ok but you get access denied later on the way...
I feel this is a combination of removable media and win7 : I did my tests with win7 and fixed media.

I'll test extensively on a usb key to reproduce this behavior.

In the meantime, what you can drive to rule out the driver is to use cfadisk (http://www.etcwiki.o...B_LocalDisk.zip).
The tutoral says that you have to modify the inf file : I did not have to and I simply used the update driver function from the ms device drivers.

/erwan

[Wonko the Sane]

WonkoOf course. I know about it. Under Windows 7 it does read, but doesn't writes

Have you tried under windows 7 to remove the Disk Signature? (which is what we have talked about till now... as working for Vista )

If you write a very simple batch calling MBRFIX, you can save the the Disk Signature, use disk image, and then re-write the disk signature.

Or simply §@ç#ing try the little dirty app by joakim:
http://www.boot-land...?...=8200&st=24

(if it works, consider it a temprary solution until - and IF - TheK releases an app doing it the proper way)


Wonko

[erwan.l]

Wonko, this is basically what I do as first thing when under vista and win7 now : i call IOCTL_DISK_DELETE_DRIVE_LAYOUT which basically wipes away the mbr (and therefore the disk id).

It does indeed make a difference as now voyajer can start writing to his drive but gets access denied a few mbs later.
And these few mbs are random (not a fixed value like sector 63 or else) which makes me think the issue is elsewhere.

As of doing the proper way, is there a proper way? I read a lot of different methods out there

/Erwan

[Wonko the Sane]

Wonko, this is basically what I do as first thing when under vista and win7 now : i call IOCTL_DISK_DELETE_DRIVE_LAYOUT which basically wipes away the mbr (and therefore the disk id).

It does indeed make a difference as now voyajer can start writing to his drive but gets access denied a few mbs later.
And these few mbs are random (not a fixed value like sector 63 or else) which makes me think the issue is elsewhere.

As of doing the proper way, is there a proper way? I read a lot of different methods out there

/Erwan

Yep , but there may be other reasons why specifically Clonedisk doesn't work, that's why I am suggesting to have "something that clears the path" AND then test other apps as a comparison.



Wonko

[ksanderash]

Tried little dirty app, then CloneDisk -- it gets access stable now! I mean, can write at any time, and condition.

But, again, that floating error!

[erwan.l]

Voyajer : give micro hitachi driver a try.
See here : http://www.boot-land...?...&hl=hitachi .
Look for xpfildrvr1224_320.zip on google to find the file.

Once clonedisk starts writing, all it does is read 64kb from source and write 64kb to test in a loop from bytes 0 to last byte.
There is no reason that it gets access denied as this is the natural procedure for any reading/writing software.

/Erwan

[ksanderash]

I heard about this driver, it makes the system think UFD is fixed.

Should I install it, and then... ? Try to write and see that error presence?

[erwan.l]

I heard about this driver, it makes the system think UFD is fixed.

Should I install it, and then... ? Try to write and see that error presence?

yes, i want to see if this influences the error.

/Erwan

[ksanderash]

50% write progress... It seems that disappeared.

[erwan.l]

50% write progress... It seems that disappeared.

interesting
lets cross fingers...

[ksanderash]

Write completed, MD5 passed, no errors.

[erwan.l]

Write completed, MD5 passed, no errors.

Good news so that last error was a driver issue.
It may very well be that your 16gb usb pen was installed with a specific / proprietary driver.

I am glad to see that clonedisk can now write all fine on Win7
There was some bugs to solve : thanks for your feedback!

/Erwan

[TheK]

What I meant was just a very basic app to replace ONLY the part about locking/unlocking/unmounting/offline/whatever, i.e. something capable of replacing the "primitive" method by joakim and "do the right thing", sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Something like:
If you have problems under windows 7 or 2008, put the disk offline using diskpart, if you have problems under Vista scared9.gif, delete the Disk Signature.
If you have problems with *ANY* program having direct access to \\.\PhysicalDrive under BOTH Vista scared9.gif and 7/2008, run this nice little app by TheK immediately before the one is giving you the problem.

OK, I see. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way

When an application locks and dismounts a volume, only this app will have exclusive access to this volume and Vista/Win 7 will allow it to write to any sector of this volume. Every other process will get a "access denied" error when it tries to open the volume or files within the volume. And as soon as this application is closed, the lock is removed and every access to the volume will automatically remout it.

That means every application that is trying to write to sectors of a volume by opening a handle to \\.\PhysicalDrive needs to lock and dismout itself the get exclusive access.

It may work with some tools that only access \\.\PhysiclDrive and not the volumes on it but I need to test this first.


@Erwan did you try to lock and dismount?

[fuwi]

@erwan

The Gui in Tools/FormatEX is truncated/unreadable at the bottom:



fuwi

[Wonko the Sane]

@erwan.l
An idea
If for any reason Windows 7 "polls" the device after you have written to it sector 0 but before the app ends writing, it locks the device AGAIN.

In other words, what happens if instead of copying LBA sectors 0...n you either write:
sectors 1...n;0
or
sectors n.....0

Or simply if you:

• copy first sector of image
  
• 00 out first sector of image
  
• write the whole image
  
• write the temporary copied sector 0

Wonko

[erwan.l]

@erwan.l
An idea
If for any reason Windows 7 "polls" the device after you have written to it sector 0 but before the app ends writing, it locks the device AGAIN.

In other words, what happens if instead of copying LBA sectors 0...n you either write:
sectors 1...n;0
or
sectors n.....0

Or simply if you:

• copy first sector of image
  
• 00 out first sector of image
  
• write the whole image
  
• write the temporary copied sector 0

Wonko

Hi Wonko,
Actually the problem was the driver for this particular usb key : any user level app would have had the same issue.

But you are right, instead of reading / writing 64kb buffers, I could go by sector.
Advantage of 64kb buffers is that they are memory aligned, this being as fast and reliable as it can be whereas using sector size buffers will be real slow.

Today it works as is :
-00 out first sector
-lock volume
-dismount volume
-write from very first byte to very last byte using 64kb buffers
-unlock

Regards,
Erwan

[erwan.l]

@erwan

The Gui in Tools/FormatEX is truncated/unreadable at the bottom:



fuwi

Hi Fuwi,
Thanks, fixed and re uploaded.

Regards,
Erwan.

[Wonko the Sane]

Hi Wonko,
Actually the problem was the driver for this particular usb key : any user level app would have had the same issue.

Sorry, but no.
I mean it may be that but there is no actual evidence that a driver is the culprit.
I suspect - and it is "as" likely - the different status of "Fixed" vs. "Removal".

voyajer could do this test :
uninstall the filter driver (i.e. go back in the same situation as before)

dsfo C:\theimage.bin 0 512 C:\thetempsect.bin

fsz c:\alotof00s.bin 512

dsfi C:\theimage.bin 0 512 c:\alotof00s.bin

i.e. modify the image so that it's first sector is 00ed.
Use clonedisk as before to restore the whole image.

dsfi \\.\PhysicaldriveN 0 512 C:\thetempsect.bin

to check if the problem is the polling in mid-copy...

Today it works as is :
-00 out first sector
-lock volume
-dismount volume
-write from very first byte to very last byte using 64kb buffers
-unlock

That won't be the problem, read my previous post as:
-00 out first sector
-lock volume
-dismount volume
-write from second 64 Kb chunk to very last byte using 64kb buffers
-write first 64 Kb chunk
-unlock


Wonko

[ksanderash]

I'm having some doubts about the driver hypothesis too

I didn't install anything third part. Bare untouched Windows 7 after backup, and a regular JetFlash 600.

[erwan.l]

Oki my theory does not sound popular
And I admit that it is more likely that fixed vs removeable is the issue.

Lets have voyajer test wonko's scenario?

Regards,
Erwan.

[TheK]

Just to prove my concept...

Here is a quick and dirty app that will LOCK and DISMOUNT all volumes on a physical drive, allowing other applications to write to any sector by opening \\.\PhysicalDriveX.

Tested on Windows 7 with a 2GB UFD and CloneDisk (without any special driver requirements), RoadKil's DiskImage and dsfi!

Please note that you can't lock the system drive!

Download: LockDismount v0.1.0.0

Thanks Wonko for pushing me into the right direction