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#1 online

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:19 AM

Is there a way in order to (automatically?) select a different (not EN/US) keyboard layout in the grub4dos's commandline?
If "yes", how could I do that?
Any suggestion appreciated.

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

It's not straightforward.

But it can be done.

See here:
http://diddy.boot-la...ands.htm#setkey

And here for examples:
http://www.lrz-muenc...nhard/grub.html
http://www.lrz-muenc...hard/german.txt
http://osdir.com/ml/...0/msg00169.html
http://manual.sidux....bootman2-it.htm
And man-page:
http://www.gnu.org/s...ode/setkey.html

It could be a nice new section of the Forum, providing "regional" keymaps. :D, but maybe someone already did all the work and it is simply a matter of finding them.

Here is an Italian one (untested by me):
http://groups.google...baeae6c17?pli=1

I have the impression that these key-remappings are not complete/fully tested....

:D

jaclaz

#3 river~~

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 02:24 PM

...
It could be a nice new section of the Forum, providing "regional" keymaps. :D, but maybe someone already did all the work and it is simply a matter of finding them.


the keymap command is the same as in gnu grub, and so it is possible that the work was done a long time ago.

I remember around eight years ago I had a script I'd downloaded that translated the standard linux key board mappings into a set of gnu grub commands. Sadly the machine I downloaded it onto is long dead, and of course, no sign of it now when I googled it (apart from an oblique reference to it in a long resolved bugrep)

Anyone else remember that script and more important, still have it? still know where it is? Want to write it again?? :D

River~~

#4 ktp

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 02:37 PM

I use this script to change between US/French keyboard. It should be not too difficult to adapt them to other keyboards layout.

[codebox]# change to US keyboard (QWERTY) title Change to US keyboard (qwerty) setkey # change to FR keyboard title Change to French keyboard (azerty) setkey less backquote setkey greater tilde setkey ampersand 1 setkey 1 exclam setkey tilde 2 setkey 2 at setkey doublequote 3 setkey 3 numbersign setkey quote 4 setkey 4 dollar setkey parenleft 5 setkey 5 percent setkey minus 6 setkey 6 caret setkey backquote 7 setkey 7 ampersand setkey underscore 8 setkey 8 asterisk setkey backslash 9 setkey 9 parenleft setkey at 0 setkey 0 parenright setkey parenright minus setkey numbersign underscore # no change for equal # no change for plus setkey a q setkey A Q setkey z w setkey Z W setkey caret bracketleft # no equivalent for diaresis => we keep the US braceleft setkey dollar bracketright # no equivalent for pound => we keep the US braceright setkey q a setkey Q A setkey m semicolon setkey M colon setkey bracketleft quote setkey percent doublequote setkey asterisk backslash setkey bracketright bar setkey w z setkey W Z setkey comma m setkey question M setkey semicolon comma setkey period less setkey colon period setkey slash greater setkey exclam slash setkey bar question[/codebox] To set automatically the default keyboard, just put the corresponding grub4dos directives at the beginning of menu.lst, usually after the color/timeout directives.

#5 was_jaclaz

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 05:15 PM

It seems like Mepis has a "wider" menu.lst:
http://www.aiutopc.c...rums/-vt95.html

Here it is in an easier copy and paste format:
title Use a qwerty keyboard with GRUBsetkey y ysetkey Y Ysetkey q qsetkey Q Qsetkey w wsetkey W Wsetkey a asetkey A Asetkey semicolon semicolonsetkey colon colonsetkey z zsetkey Z Zsetkey m msetkey M Msetkey comma commasetkey less lesssetkey period periodsetkey greater greatersetkey slash slashsetkey bracketright bracketrightsetkey backslash backslashsetkey doublequote doublequotesetkey 1 1setkey exclam exclamsetkey 2 2setkey at atsetkey 3 3setkey numbersign numbersignsetkey 4 4setkey dollar dollarsetkey 5 5setkey percent percentsetkey 6 6setkey caret caretsetkey 7 7setkey ampersand ampersandsetkey 8 8setkey asterisk asterisksetkey 9 9setkey parenleft parenleftsetkey 0 0setkey parenright parenrightsetkey minus minussetkey backquote backquotesetkey tilde tildesetkey braceright bracerightsetkey question questionsetkey braceleft braceleftsetkey quote quotesetkey underscore underscoretitle Utiliser un clavier azerty avec GRUBsetkey y ysetkey Y Ysetkey a qsetkey A Qsetkey z wsetkey Z Wsetkey q asetkey Q Asetkey m semicolonsetkey M colonsetkey w zsetkey W Zsetkey comma msetkey question Msetkey semicolon commasetkey period lesssetkey colon periodsetkey slash greatersetkey exclam slashsetkey dollar bracketrightsetkey asterisk backslashsetkey percent doublequotesetkey ampersand 1setkey 1 exclamsetkey tilde 2setkey 2 atsetkey doublequote 3setkey 3 numbersignsetkey quote 4setkey 4 dollarsetkey parenleft 5setkey 5 percentsetkey minus 6setkey 6 caretsetkey backquote 7setkey 7 ampersandsetkey underscore 8setkey 8 asterisksetkey caret 9setkey 9 parenleftsetkey at 0setkey 0 parenrightsetkey parenright minussetkey less backquotesetkey greater tildesetkey numbersign bracerightsetkey backslash questionsetkey bracketright braceleftsetkey braceleft quotesetkey braceright underscoretitle Benutze qwertz Tastatur mit GRUBsetkey y zsetkey z ysetkey Y Zsetkey Z Ysetkey equal parenrightsetkey parenright parenleftsetkey parenleft asterisksetkey doublequote atsetkey backquote equalsetkey plus bracketrightsetkey minus slashsetkey slash ampersandsetkey ampersand percentsetkey percent caretsetkey underscore questionsetkey question underscoresetkey semicolon lesssetkey less numbersignsetkey numbersign backslashsetkey colon greatersetkey greater barsetkey asterisk bracerightsetkey caret backquotesetkey backslash minus
@ktpDid you make the re-mapping by yourself or you found one around?This one seems at first sight different/more complete :D:http://osdir.com/ml/boot-loaders.grub.bugs...0/msg00169.html

@river~~
Was it a bash script, a batch, a python one? Can you remember? Maybe with this info it may be easier to find it.

:D

jaclaz

#6 ktp

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 05:38 PM

@jaclaz
> Did you make the re-mapping by yourself or you found one around?

I found it somewhere around :-). It looks like that I have to take a look at the better one you mentioned.

#7 online

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 07:48 PM

Here is an Italian one (untested by me):
http://groups.google...baeae6c17?pli=1

Just tested: I've copied the entries at the beginnings of the "menu.lst" file (before the default/color entries) and they seem to work.
I've learned that the related entries can be also in a txt file: I've tried this way too and it seems to work too: only a bit longer due to a pair of more confirmations.
Many thanks for your link: only to further customize the entries for my liking.
Nice the idea of a dedicated forum for localized releases: with a bit of time I will try to refine and to share the italian one.

#8 river~~

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:06 AM

It seems like Mepis has a "wider" menu.lst ...

I would improve this as follows: (note that like the original you have to scroll to see it all)

title Use a qwerty-US keyboard with GRUBsetkeytitle Utiliser un clavier azerty avec GRUBsetkey setkey a qsetkey A Qsetkey z wsetkey Z Wsetkey q asetkey Q Asetkey m semicolonsetkey M colonsetkey w zsetkey W Zsetkey comma msetkey question Msetkey semicolon commasetkey period lesssetkey colon periodsetkey slash greatersetkey exclam slashsetkey dollar bracketrightsetkey asterisk backslashsetkey percent doublequotesetkey ampersand 1setkey 1 exclamsetkey tilde 2setkey 2 atsetkey doublequote 3setkey 3 numbersignsetkey quote 4setkey 4 dollarsetkey parenleft 5setkey 5 percentsetkey minus 6setkey 6 caretsetkey backquote 7setkey 7 ampersandsetkey underscore 8setkey 8 asterisksetkey caret 9setkey 9 parenleftsetkey at 0setkey 0 parenrightsetkey parenright minussetkey less backquotesetkey greater tildesetkey numbersign bracerightsetkey backslash questionsetkey bracketright braceleftsetkey braceleft quotesetkey braceright underscoretitle Benutze qwertz Tastatur mit GRUBsetkeysetkey y zsetkey z ysetkey Y Zsetkey Z Ysetkey equal parenrightsetkey parenright parenleftsetkey parenleft asterisksetkey doublequote atsetkey backquote equalsetkey plus bracketrightsetkey minus slashsetkey slash ampersandsetkey ampersand percentsetkey percent caretsetkey underscore questionsetkey question underscoresetkey semicolon lesssetkey less numbersignsetkey numbersign backslashsetkey colon greatersetkey greater barsetkey asterisk bracerightsetkey caret backquotesetkey backslash minus
The difference is that I am using the setkey command without any arguments to clear any previous settings. This removes the need for 'silly' looking lines like setkey Q Q, but more important restores all keys to the default mapping, including any that the script author did not think of, and also including any that may just possibly be introduced in the future. The qwerty-US map then becomes complete without any more lines.I also changed the name of the qwerty-US map, as there is also a need for other qwerty options, as for example the qwerty-UK map which has the same letters and digits as qwerty-US but the punctuation characters are all different. I don't have time right now to add the qwerty-UK map, and I hope someone else posts one before I get time to work it out :D

River~~

#9 river~~

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:29 AM

@river~~
Was it a bash script, a batch, a python one? Can you remember? Maybe with this info it may be easier to find it.

I remember I ran it on a Suse system, so it can't have been a DOS batch file. At the time Suse was still using Lilo as the default loader, so I'd grabbed grub from somewhere (from Suse? from elsewhere?) in order to experiment, and the script probably from somewhere else again. Sorry can't be more help.

Thought: when you install debian with a non-qwerty keyboard, does the debian installer add appropriate lines to menu.lst to swap the keys around? Anyone with a debian (or other major distro) and a non-qwerty board like to look and report? Look for setkey lines near the top of the file /boot/grub/menu.lst -- or maybe even in a separate file grub.conf

River~~

#10 river~~

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 10:55 AM

and here's dvorak by 'donut' (Matthew Mueller) from [url="http://"see%20<a%20href="http://users.dakotacom.net/~donut/programs/index_f.html#grubdvorak""%20target="_blank">http://users.dakotac...ams...rubdvorak"</a>"]here[/url] with minor amendments
# GRUB qwerty->dvorak keymap v1.0 - Matthew Mueller# with minor mods river~~ may 2009title dvorak keyboard# clear any previous mappings:setkey# row 1# (number keys)setkey bracketleft minussetkey braceleft underscoresetkey bracketright equalsetkey braceright plus# row 2setkey quote qsetkey doublequote Qsetkey comma wsetkey less Wsetkey period esetkey greater Esetkey p rsetkey P Rsetkey y tsetkey Y Tsetkey f ysetkey F Ysetkey g usetkey G Usetkey c isetkey C Isetkey r osetkey R Osetkey l psetkey L Psetkey slash bracketleftsetkey question braceleftsetkey equal bracketrightsetkey plus braceright# row 3#a=asetkey o ssetkey O Ssetkey e dsetkey E Dsetkey u fsetkey U Fsetkey i gsetkey I Gsetkey d hsetkey D Hsetkey h jsetkey H Jsetkey t ksetkey T Ksetkey n lsetkey N Lsetkey s semicolonsetkey S colonsetkey minus quotesetkey underscore doublequote# row 4setkey semicolon zsetkey colon Zsetkey q xsetkey Q Xsetkey j csetkey J Csetkey k vsetkey K Vsetkey x bsetkey X Bsetkey b nsetkey B N#m=msetkey w commasetkey W lesssetkey v periodsetkey V greatersetkey z slashsetkey Z question
I especially like the way donut has comments to tell you which part of the keyboard is being mapped. :D

But I was actually looking for that script, no joy yet... :D

River~~

#11 was_jaclaz

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:33 AM

I've learned that the related entries can be also in a txt file: I've tried this way too and it seems to work too: only a bit longer due to a pair of more confirmations.


Yep :D, the .lst extension is just a convention.

You can use allright a "CALL"/"RETURN" with a .txt fle:
In menu.lst:
....

title Enable Italian Keyboard

configfile /keymap_it.txt

....

in keymap_it.txt:
setkey 

setkey backslash backquote 

setkey bar tilde

...

...

configfile /menu.lst

By cleverly using the default features of grub4dos you can even make it automatic.

@river~~
I was having the same idea of going by rows, NICE. ;)

An idea: one could have for example a "base" file for the US keyboard, something like:
##1st row
#setkey backslash backquote
#setkey bar tilde
put it in a spread sheet and have as many columns as langauges/layotus besides, in the above all # are in Column A, "label" "1st row" and "Setkey" commands are in Column B, US is Column C, Italian is Column D, French is column E, etc,
... and have another sheet to concatenate the cells if the value for the selected language/layout is not empty.... or have a separate sheet for each language.

This is something I could start, then any member could download the "base" spreadsheet and re-upload it with a language/layout added.

:D

jaclaz

#12 was_jaclaz

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:04 PM

First attempt attached. :D

Please NOTE:
  • keys that are MODIFIED by ALT Gr are NOT properly mapped
  • NO provision is made for exchanging keys

The "US" column should be kept unmodified.
The "IT" column is made by simply typing (with IT mapping ;)) each key in a given ROW, first "plain" and then with SHIFT (and then again with ALT Gr where relevant) modifier (of course exception made for keys like TAB, SHIFT, CTRL, etc.)

Once the "regional column" is filled you just copy and paste the relevant cells in "B" column into notepad or other plain text editor.

:D

jaclaz

P.S.: Preliminary sheet removed, a (hopefully) better one uploaded on post #21 below.

#13 river~~

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 07:01 PM

I read this link that jaclaz posted earlier
http://osdir.com/ml/...0/msg00169.html
In it, Michel Bouissou makes the following comment:

The French AZERTY keyboard cannot be perfectly emulated, because the French
AZERTY keyboard has an "AltGr" key instead of the right "Alt" key, and this
"AltGr" key permits obtaining a 3rd character from many keys
...
Also, the french keyboard has a key "< >" that cannot be remapped in grub,
because when booting in american QWERTY mode, it produces exactly the same
(other) characters as another key, which doesn't allow it to be individually
remapped.


Ive been thinking about this - that last issue arises as US keyboards do not have
key 86 (its between Z (W, Y) and the left shift key on european keyboards), and so if we
ignore the AltGr characters (like grub does) then there are two characters fewer
on a US keyboard. The missing characters from a UK perspective are notsign and
sterling.

It is not a problem in Linux as the keys are mapped from the key
numbers, not from existing letters.

It is a problem in grub (both flavours, gnu- and -dos).

shift+key86 and shift+key52 (shift+dot) both give '>'
unshifted key86 is the same as shift+key51 (shift+comma)

Non-Americans cannot correct their key 86 in grub without
making their keys 51 and 52 follow the same mapping, so to fix one
key we automatically have to break another one. It is not just an issue for the
French but for the whole of Europe.

In the UK, for example, I want to leave keys 51 and 52 as they are,
but want to have bar and backslash on key 86.

So, even if we ignore the AltGr characters every European keyboard has a problem.

edit: suggestion for new command is now withdrawn on grounds of pragmatism (see jaclaz's following comment)

I still wonder how much work it would be for grub to be tweaked to add two new recognised characters, sterling and notsign, and to place these on key 86. This would allow users from other parts of the world to use these new character names
to map their board properly for all the plain and shifted characers.

River~~

#14 ktp

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 07:05 PM

@jaclaz
I played a little with the spreadsheet: it looks very interesting and is effectively easy to customize the keyboard. Hopefully it will be completed for other layouts by forumers.

#15 was_jaclaz

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 07:16 PM

river~~, ;)
as a general rule, once established the theory :D one must be pragmatical. ;)

Any user using accented or "regional" characters in filenames should be ;) - my stance would be that of the cats I posted here:
http://www.boot-land...?...=8052&st=16

EXPECIALLY if not only he managed to use "unmappable" characters, but he also made two of them :) in such a way that even using TAB autocompletion the "doubt" cannot be resolved.

Then, since it would be simply unproductive (not to use another more appropriate English world - hint begins with "s", ends with "d", it's 6 letters long) to write a poem in the grub/grub4dos interface, you ONLY need the keys that are used in grub4dos commands.

You don't need @[{]}£§ symbols/characters. (and several other ones).

I will make a list of all non 0-9 a-z A-Z characters used in grub4dos commands, and add a RED cell beside them in the spreadsheet.

:D

jaclaz

P.S.:

@jaclaz
I played a little with the spreadsheet: it looks very interesting and is effectively easy to customize the keyboard. Hopefully it will be completed for other layouts by forumers.

Yep, but for the moment just play with it, it is a "preview", the formatting/settings may change in later release, not yet time to actually use it in the intended way. And expecially for the QWERTY vs. AZERTY exchange, a solution needs to be found. ;)

#16 river~~

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:06 PM

as a general rule, ... one must be pragmatical ...

yes, I need to be reminded of that sometimes :D

Any user using accented or "regional" characters in filenames should be ...

I agree about accented characters in filenames. I don't even like people who include spaces ("c:\Program Files")

BUT

There is a bit more of a case for regional characters in langauges with >26 letters in the alphabet. Why should those users be stuck with rules that are (for them) relating to a foreign script. Tab completion is no help if the unproducable character is at the start of a filename, or is the first distinguishing character, or when you use the find command.

The symbol keys that I can think of that I use in grub commands are at least | / - = & and what I was most thinking about is to make these available to everyone in his/her normal keystrokes, imho there should not need to be special instructions to type this or that character differently.

I am not totally sure that there is no keyboard that uses AltGr for any of | / = - &

And I wouldn't write a poem in grub but I can imagine someone wanting to enter a grub password, and wanting to do it in their own alphabet not a foreign one -- and passwords are just where you need the keyboard to be right as you can't see your mistakes.

It clearly wasn't pragmatical to suggest a new keycode command in grub - obviously that is never going to be a priority and I'll edit that out/down. But to add two new character names to a list, and change two entries in an existing table may not be so much work for the benefit of making grub4dos more adaptable.

R~~

#17 was_jaclaz

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

It clearly wasn't pragmatical to suggest a new keycode command in grub - obviously that is never going to be a priority and I'll edit that out/down. But to add two new character names to a list, and change two entries in an existing table may not be so much work for the benefit of making grub4dos more adaptable.


Sure ;), and besides, if you see in grub4dos_readme.txt, how you can map (for "hot-keys") any key using it's scancodes "Keyboard BIOS Scan Code/ASCII code tables" I am pretty sure that the basic support for it is already in the code.

My guess is that the setkey command with it's totally unintuitive syntax:
Command&#58; setkey &#91;to_key from_key&#93;
(while in all the languages in the word you use "do something from_source to_target)
is a relic of the "old" legacy GRUB, and at the time the good GRUB guys thought it to be smart to give "human readable" form to the non-alphanumeric keys.

So, should any of the good grub4dos guys happen to be interested in the thing, I would suggest leaving setkey as is for backwards compatibility and add a new command, something along the lines:
keyremap from_code to_code [--exchange] [--onlyshift] [--onlynoshift] [--allmod]

For the QWERTY to AZERTY the command would be:

keyremap 1071 1E61 --exchange --allmod
keyremap 1177 2C7A --exchange --allmod

And would take care of "a A w W". :D

And I wouldn't write a poem in grub but I can imagine someone wanting to enter a grub password, and wanting to do it in their own alphabet not a foreign one -- and passwords are just where you need the keyboard to be right as you can't see your mistakes.

Bad example. ;)

You type a sequence of keys in a given order along the letters printed onto them.(in grub4dos interface and on your own "regional" keyboard)
There is NO need whatsoever that the character printed are the same as the ones on the keys pressed.
You simply save the output of what you typed as your password.
When you want to acces the system yuo type on the same keyboard the same sequence of keys, and grub4dos will grant you the access.
The only problem is when you wnat to access that grub4dos protected using another "region" keyboard.

All in all rather unlikely, roughly at a probability factor of

two to the power of two hundred and sixty-seven thousand seven hundred and nine to one against.



:D

jaclaz

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 03:36 PM

You can use allright a "CALL"/"RETURN" with a .txt fle:

In menu.lst:
....
title Enable Italian Keyboard
configfile /keymap_it.txt
....


in keymap_it.txt:
setkey
setkey backslash backquote
setkey bar tilde
...
...
configfile /menu.lst


Sure ;), it is just what is in a your previous link: here's why I was talking about "the pair of more confirmations" (and that I do not need and I do not like).
That's: then you have first to select your "Enable Italian Keyboard" from the Menu screen and then you have to return on the Menu screen again and select a wanted application (even for editing the related entries) and/or the commandline.

By cleverly using the default features of grub4dos you can even make it automatic.

Really, in order to automatically "load" a localized layout it is enough to add in your "menu.lst" the "setkey" entries before the "default/color" existing first entries.

I've refined and customized them at the best of my liking

"menu.lst" example for Keyboard Italian Layout (customized)
setkey backslash backquote

setkey bar tilde

setkey doublequote at

setkey backquote numbersign

setkey ampersand caret

setkey slash ampersand

setkey parenleft asterisk

setkey parenright parenleft

setkey equal parenright

setkey quote minus

setkey question underscore

setkey tilde equal

setkey caret plus

setkey bracketright braceleft

setkey asterisk braceright

setkey plus bracketright

setkey braceleft semicolon

setkey braceright quote

setkey at colon

setkey numbersign doublequote

setkey less backslash

setkey greater bar

setkey minus slash

setkey semicolon less

setkey colon greater

setkey underscore question



color blue/green yellow/red white/magenta white/magenta

timeout 30

default /default

and it seems to me that they work so fine. :D

Btw: I think that using the text file and the "return" line could be useful only if you want to "load" different layouts from the same built supposing to use it with different keyboards, otherwise doing the double more confirmation is annoying and useless (imo). :D

#19 was_jaclaz

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:58 AM

Online,
what I was trying to say was that you can use the default feature of the grub4dos menu.lst to automate the call and return, i.e. avoiding the confirmations. :D

This would provide, by simply adding to the "initial" default a configfile statement pointing to the wanted "external" set of keys, to add any language using separate .lst or .txt files.

:D

jaclaz

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 04:52 PM

what I was trying to say was that you can use the default feature of the grub4dos menu.lst to automate the call and return, i.e. avoiding the confirmations.

Sorry for misunderstanding. :D

This would provide, by simply adding to the "initial" default a configfile statement pointing to the wanted "external" set of keys, to add any language using separate .lst or .txt files.

I see, but in my opinion it seems only a different way to obtain the same result.
Sure, a more versatile way (though needing "some" file more), but probably useful only if you suppose to use your built with different languages, or am I wrong?
Just for further learning, please may you suggest the way you are thinking about (using the default grub4dos features) and also a need in which (not supposing to use different layouts) using separate txt files would be a preferable way?
Actually I still like the simplest and straight-line way to copy few entries (my language related, just as already posted above) at the beginning of my "menu.lst" rather than to use a separate txt file (even without any confirmation). :D

#21 was_jaclaz

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 12:57 PM

@online

I'll see what I can come up with, about the "CALL" and "RETURN".

Your re-mappings have a couple of keys "inverted" between "plain" and "Shift", and some mappings are just "personal".

Can you try reviewing the worksheet and see how it "behaves" with the addition of your "personal" mappings?

@ktp
Try playing with the attached worksheet. ;) I find it a satisfactory result. ;)
It would be nice if you could play "lab rat" and produce a FR re-mapping through the use of the sheet.

@all

Please even if you do not plan to release a local keyboard re-mapping, do check the spreadsheet, I am curious to know your ideas on the contents of the sheet "Thoughts".

:)

jaclaz

Attached Files



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Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:28 AM

I'll see what I can come up with, about the "CALL" and "RETURN".

Will see... ;)

Your re-mappings have a couple of keys "inverted" between "plain" and "Shift

Nope.
Please, may you report which key exactly would be "inverted"?
As far as I can see there are not. :)
Sure, since in my previous post I've named them as "customized", some of themselves have been just customized and better described below.

some mappings are just "personal".

Please, just read above and then the following:
1)
ì
key (plain) is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
~
2)
£
(shift) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
&#96;
(please, note that it is not "quote", but instead "backquote")
3)
è
(plain) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
&#91;
that in IT kb is obtained with Alt_Gr key that is not available under grub4dos
4)
é
(shift) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
&#93;
please, note that it is a customization due just to a sort of corresponding: with the same key plained/shifted you can obtain
&#91; &#93;
while with the other key you can regularly obtain
+
(plain) or
*
(shift) rather than
&#93;
with a not-existing Alt_Gr feature)
5)
ò
(plain) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
{
(please, note that it is obtained only with Alt_Gr not-existing feature
6)
à
(shift) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
}
(please, note that it is obtained only with Alt_Gr not-existing feature)
7)
§
(shift) key is not matching in US-EN language or in grub4dos features, so I've placed
>
that also will match with > key on IT kb
8)
ù
(plain) key is not matching in US-EN language, so I've placed
<
that also will match with < key on IT kb
9)
Shift+ò
obtains
@
that from an IT kb is reachable only with Alt_Gr+ò (not existing in grub4dos features)
10)
Shift+à
obtains
#
that from an IT kb is reachable only with Alt_Gr+à (not existing in grub4dos features).

All the other keys (IT kb related) are matching the corresponding Plain/Shift function.
So, it seems to me that except the stated customization there is no "inverted" key. :)

Can you try reviewing the worksheet and see how it "behaves" with the addition of your "personal" mappings?

Yes. ;)

#23 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:18 PM

The "inverted" mappings are:

setkey at colon
setkey numbersign doublequote


in the spreadsheet they re-map as:

setkey at semicolon
setkey numbersign quote


It seems more "natural" that the @ and # are without "Shift" and that the {} (which are normally Alt Gr+Shift) remain under "Shift".

Of course it's just an opinion ;), and the only character you will ever use will probably be #.

About the "Call and Return", it is doable, but it's overly complex, and definitely NOT advised.

However, since it uses a nice trick, here it is (it may be useful for something else :)):

menu.lst:
timeout 0

color black/cyan yellow/cyan



default &#40;fd0&#41;/default



title Italian Keyboard

configfile &#40;fd0&#41;/keybit.txt



title find and load IO.SYS of Windows 9x/Me

find --set-root /io.sys

chainloader /io.sys

write --offset=8 /menu.lst 0

savedefault 0



title List menu.lst

cat &#40;fd0&#41;/menu.lst

pause --wait=5 Press a key...



title List keybit.txt

cat &#40;fd0&#41;/keybit.txt

pause --wait=5 Press a key...

keybit.txt:

setkey backslash backquote

setkey bar tilde

setkey doublequote at

setkey backquote numbersign

setkey ampersand caret

setkey slash ampersand

setkey parenleft asterisk

setkey parenright parenleft

setkey equal parenright

setkey quote minus

setkey question underscore

setkey tilde equal

setkey caret plus

setkey bracketright braceleft

setkey asterisk braceright

setkey plus bracketright

setkey braceleft semicolon

setkey braceright quote

setkey at colon

setkey numbersign doublequote

setkey less backslash

setkey greater bar

setkey minus slash

setkey semicolon less

setkey colon greater

setkey underscore question



default &#40;fd0&#41;/default

savedefault --wait=0 1

write --offset=8 &#40;fd0&#41;/menu.lst 9

configfile &#40;fd0&#41;/menu.lst

It is intended for a floppy booting DOS.

When you boot you have timeout 0, thus the configfile command is immediately executed, the timeout is reset to 9, and the default item (IO.SYS of DOS) is pre-selected.

:)

jaclaz

P.S.: A general note:
it seems like re-mapping also affects non-numeric keys of numeric keypad. ;)

#24 online

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:43 PM

The "inverted" mappings are:

setkey at colon

setkey numbersign doublequote
in the spreadsheet they re-map as:
setkey at semicolon

setkey numbersign quote

So you intended "inverted" compared to your spreadsheet not to the real keyboard.
I confirm that on the real IT kb all "my" keys are remapped without any "Plain/Shift" reversal. ;)

It seems more "natural" that the @ and # are without "Shift"

Maybe it seems more logical, rather than more "natural": since if I want to obtain "@" or "#" on my IT kb then I must press two keys ("Alt_Gr+ò" or "Alt_Gr+à"); here's why I choose to use "Shift+ò" or "Shift+à": because there are just two keys to press and I am just used to do that (so, in this manner it appears really more natural). ;)

and that the {} (which are normally Alt Gr+Shift) remain under "Shift".

This is more natural, here I agree (for the same reasons just above described): so it seems to me that both of us have inverted something... :)

Of course it's just an opinion

Yep. :)

#25 online

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 05:03 PM

@jaclaz

Well, I just thought about those keys and since they are the same two physical keys for four functions I think that is more logical to use your suggestion. ;)

So, it appears to me that "@" and "#" as "Plain", and "{" and "}" as "Shift would be more convenient.

Thanks for your other described attempts. :)


Btw: it would be a nice thing if other dudes of other languages would try to find and then to post them related layouts. ;)




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