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#1 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:32 AM

At this point I only need for this to do one basic thing. Start Vista (I have 64 bit) from a CD or DVD ROM so I can delete files from my hard drive, and be able to run Ccleaner to update the directory afterwards. Problem is, I'm not sure where to start, and how to do it as I'm brand new to this sort of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'd be fine with being able to start it from a 2 gig USB pen drive as well.

John

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:41 AM

At this point I only need for this to do one basic thing. Start Vista (I have 64 bit) from a CD or DVD ROM so I can delete files from my hard drive, and be able to run Ccleaner to update the directory afterwards. Problem is, I'm not sure where to start, and how to do it as I'm brand new to this sort of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'd be fine with being able to start it from a 2 gig USB pen drive as well.

John


With all due respect :), are you going to use a 64 bit machine to let your mommy play Canasta online? :)

Seriously, is the PC 64 bit?

Which kind of media you have? (I mean the OS install discs, are they a "full" Vista or recovery DVD's?)

My guess is that removing that A.R.C.H.I.E. thingy "ain't gonna be easy", :) meaning that probably you will need a lot more effort than just running CCcleaner.

jaclaz

#3 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:52 AM

She uses it for other games as well, but that's her main "thing"..lol

The computer came "as is" but nothing was mentioned about this insane program when I bid on it. No disc came with, it's an HP with a partition that has the OS on it. I cannot make a recovery disc for that machine due to this program's interference.

Yes, it's a duo-core 4 gig system, and probably more machine than she can use..lol

My personal system came the same way, from another company, so I doubt I could make a recovery disc from it to work on the HP machine (Gateway).

As for making it work, yes it will, if I can bypass the program (with this?) so I can remove the files followed by the registry editor....but only if I can find a way to bypass the program...What it does is reset the computer every few minutes, essentially deleting any changes made to it.

With all due respect, please turn the sarcasm down a bit, as I am asking for help from folks more knowledgeable than myself!

#4 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:57 AM

Also, when I ran Winbuilder 076 to start the process I recieved this log:

Scripts


pePA.com.config Version[4] 5.726 seconds





Warnings


Required Source Image 'winpe.wim' cannot be found at all!



%BaseDir% = C:\Users\CircuitCity\Desktop\
(winbuilder's path is replaced by the variable %basedir% to make the log easier to read)

WinBuilder version [076 ]



pePA.com.config

File [%BaseDir%\Projects\pePA.com\pePA.com.script] Version[4]

RegRead - read specified key from: [HKLM]Section: [SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Environment] Key: [PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE] to variable:: [%Processor_Architecture%] with value: [AMD64]

Run - Processing section: [Locate_winpe] From file: [%BaseDir%\Projects\pePA.com\script.project]
Verifying the correct path to 'winpe.wim'.
IF - File does not exist: [C:\Program Files\Windows AIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim] evaluated string: [If,NotExistFile,"%SourceDir%\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim",Echo,"Required Source Image 'winpe.wim' cannot be found in #$q%SourceDir%#$q!"]
Required Source Image 'winpe.wim' cannot be found in "C:\Program Files\Windows AIK"!
IF - File does not exist: [C:\Program Files\Windows AIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim] evaluated string: [If,NotExistFile,"%SourceDir%\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim",Run,"%ProjectDir%\script.project",Try_another_path]

Run - Processing section: [Try_another_path] From file: [%BaseDir%\Projects\pePA.com\script.project]
Trying to locate 'winpe.wim' in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows AIK".
IF - File does not exist: [C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows AIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim] evaluated string: [If,ExistFile,"%ProgramFilesDir%\Windows#$sAIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim",Set,"%SourceDir%","%ProgramFilesDir%\Windows#$sAIK"]
Run - Processed section [Try_another_path] in file: [%BaseDir%\Projects\pePA.com\script.project]
IF - File does not exist: [C:\Program Files\Windows AIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim] evaluated string: [If,NotExistFile,"%SourceDir%\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim",Message,"Source Directory Example for WinBuilder Paths Tab - 'C:\Program Files\Windows AIK'.",Information]
Message: Source Directory Example for WinBuilder Paths Tab - 'C:\Program Files\Windows AIK'.
IF - File does not exist: [C:\Program Files\Windows AIK\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim] evaluated string: [If,NotExistFile,"%SourceDir%\Tools\PETools\x86\winpe.wim",Exit,"Required Source Image 'winpe.wim' cannot be found at all!"]
Required Source Image 'winpe.wim' cannot be found at all!
Run - Processed section [Locate_winpe] in file: [%BaseDir%\Projects\pePA.com\script.project]

Script time: 5 seconds and 726 miliseconds

Finished processing script: pePA.com.config


Project time: 5 seconds and 772 miliseconds



#5 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:41 AM

With all due respect, please turn the sarcasm down a bit, as I am asking for help from folks more knowledgeable than myself!


It was just part of Rule #12 :):
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules

12. SMILE! :) Life is tough, we all know that, when you enter this board, it will be appreciated that you leave your personal problems behind, asking and replyinq questions or however exchanging informations with a "positive" attitude, TAKE IT EASY :) and enjoy your stay here.


Apart from the joke about 64 bit computing power used to play canasta online, I am serious.

Winbuilder needs some SOURCE files, (the XP/Vista install disks) which you seem not to have.

You may try to build from the WAIK only, but if you want to accept my personal advice, before taking the time to crate a VistaPE (and it is possible that it will take lots of time) you should focus on what you can and cannot do with it.

HP's are reknown for their tricky way to make recovery partitions, and with the way they use tricky programs that can go beserk with even a very small "false step".

There are two possibilities:
  • the recovery partition is a "clean" original HP one
  • the recovery partition is already "integrated" with that A.R.C.H.I.E. program

If the latter, there is probably no way to get over it, without a full new Vista install.
If the first, it may be possible to create the recovery disks and thus make a "pristine" system.

Even if the first case applies, it will be a long and troublesome trip (and it is not to be assumed that we'll ever get anywhere :)) there is an ongoing thread on MSFN about a similar problem:
http://www.msfn.org/...opic=131620&hl=

Long before starting fiddling with that PC, you should create a way back, see this post:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...31620&st=72

jaclaz

#6 allanf

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:00 AM

Also, when I ran Winbuilder 076 to start the process I recieved this log:


That's not VistaPE! That's one of my Projects, pePA.com... :) ...

It needs the Windows AIK as Source:

http://www.microsoft...;displaylang=en

Burn the downloaded .iso to DVD then re-insert it to "autoplay" and run the setup.

However, pePA.com is not supported under x64.

The other project, pe21.003g is supported under x64, and there are some x64 Programs to install. You must be online for the first run, unless you choose cmd Shell and no Programs.

It requires the same Source.

Not all of the x64/x86 Programs (marked with an asterisk) are working under x64.

Regards :)

#7 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:00 AM

The program that ARCHIE is a variation of is called Deep Freeze V6. The problem is, when the computer boots, it runs in a 700 MB virtual drive. Thus, anything that's done to the computer basically vanishes when the system reboots.

I'd origionally hoped to find some sort of DOS style program that would allow me to boot from a CD or Flash drive OR find a way to figure out the password to the Deep Freeze. If this gives you some more information. As for the overall data on the system, the only thing I care about is the OS. The rest of it is crapware that HP installs, and I will end up deleting that in any case.

When I first looked at VistaPE it gave me the impression (I guess incorrectly) that it would boot a version of Vista that wouldn't touch the C: drive, thus allowing the OS to load without actually loading the ARCHIE program. If that were possible, it would then also be possible to delete the 700 MB virtual drive and all the directories for the ARCHIE (Deep Freeze) program, then run the C-Cleaner to delete all references to those programs from the registry..at least that was my theory coming into this.

Does this clarify my thinking a bit? If so, can you think of a way to pull this off? If not, any other suggestions?

As for earlier, I'm tired, tis 2am here, been at this mess for hours, thus apologize for the snapping at you..... :) Oh, and happy belated birthday!

John

#8 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:05 AM

That's not VistaPE! That's one of my Projects, pePA.com... :) ...

It needs the Windows AIK as Source:

http://www.microsoft...;displaylang=en

Burn the downloaded .iso to DVD then re-insert it to "autoplay" and run the setup.

However, pePA.com is not supported under x64.

The other project, pe21.003g is supported under x64, and there are some x64 Programs to install. You must be online for the first run, unless you choose cmd Shell and no Programs.

It requires the same Source.

Not all of the x64/x86 Programs (marked with an asterisk) are working under x64.

Regards :)


One question: Will the cmd Shell allow me to access the C: drive without actually loading anything off of it? And if so, would you be kind enough to walk me through what I need to do? I'll do the downloading and building on my system to use on the other if this is possible. (ok..so that was 2 questions...lol)

John

#9 allanf

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:17 AM

One question: Will the cmd Shell allow me to access the C: drive without actually loading anything off of it? And if so, would you be kind enough to walk me through what I need to do? I'll do the downloading and building on my system to use on the other if this is possible. (ok..so that was 2 questions...lol)

John


Take the advice of jaclaz on board.

No problems walking you through the building of the project.

When the WAIK is downloaded and installed, in the Winbuilder Interface, locate the Sources Tab. Select the WAIK folder as the Source Directory - usually 'C:\Program Files\Windows AIK'.

In the interface for pe21.003g.config, under Configuration, select amd64 if that's the architecture of the machine to be booted. You can select emergeDesktop Dev Shell if you like, or simply cmd. Under Additional Programs select Full Suite x64/x86 Only - or No Programs.

Press PLAY! ... :) ... The final .iso will be <Winbuilder Base>\ISO\pe21.iso. Burn it to CD and boot.

Geez, I hope it works! ... :) ...

#10 allanf

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:21 AM

... and to answer your first question ... :) ...

Yes!

#11 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:30 AM

Turns out all of this was an excercise in futility as the idiots at Best Buy disabled the CD-ROM, thus making all of your collective efforts a moot point :) . I do thank you all for taking the time however!

John

#12 allanf

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:42 AM

Turns out all of this was an excercise in futility as the idiots at Best Buy disabled the CD-ROM, thus making all of your collective efforts a moot point :) . I do thank you all for taking the time however!


Ah, Well!

Best Buy!?

UFD?

#13 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:03 AM

The program that ARCHIE is a variation of is called Deep Freeze V6. The problem is, when the computer boots, it runs in a 700 MB virtual drive. Thus, anything that's done to the computer basically vanishes when the system reboots.


Interesting info. :)

I'd origionally hoped to find some sort of DOS style program that would allow me to boot from a CD or Flash drive OR find a way to figure out the password to the Deep Freeze. If this gives you some more information. As for the overall data on the system, the only thing I care about is the OS. The rest of it is crapware that HP installs, and I will end up deleting that in any case.

There are hacks around, but if I recall correctly only for version 5.00. :)

When I first looked at VistaPE it gave me the impression (I guess incorrectly) that it would boot a version of Vista that wouldn't touch the C: drive, thus allowing the OS to load without actually loading the ARCHIE program. If that were possible, it would then also be possible to delete the 700 MB virtual drive and all the directories for the ARCHIE (Deep Freeze) program, then run the C-Cleaner to delete all references to those programs from the registry..at least that was my theory coming into this.


No, your impression was correct.

Either VistaPE or allanf's pe21 projects will do that, it is recommended to use the pe21, as it is tested and working on x64 (while VistaPE is not).

Does this clarify my thinking a bit? If so, can you think of a way to pull this off? If not, any other suggestions?

Yes, your thinking is perfect :), point I was trying to make is that the procedure is NOT easy, NOT documented, and there are possibly VERY HIGH risks of - while deleting the program - altering the OS in such a way that it will be unbootable/unrecoverable.

Ideally you should make (on an external USB drive for example) a FULL, "dd-like" image of the hard disk before attempting to remove that A.R.C.H.I.E. thingie.

Just in case.

Turns out all of this was an excercise in futility as the idiots at Best Buy disabled the CD-ROM, thus making all of your collective efforts a moot point :) .

Do you mean disabled in BIOS? :)

Is it a laptop or a desktop?

jaclaz

#14 paraglider

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:41 AM

Its quite common to have cd boot disabled in the bios. Usually its just a matter of entering the bios on startup and changing the boot order. Usually it you watch carefully when the machine starts booting it will tell you what key to hit to enter the bios. Sometimes its the <Del> key that you press during the initial POST process to get into the bios.

#15 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:56 AM

HP is usually F1 or F2 and Esc on laptops:
http://www.michaelst...anufacturer.htm

jaclaz

#16 lnfinity

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 06:12 PM

Ended up messing with this thing til about 4:30am before finally getting some sleep. HOWEVER I did make some progress.

The morons at Geek Squad (Best Buy's tech support) didn't disable the F-11 key (assumed they did, so never tried it, until reading jaclaz's post elsewhere that he directed me to..THANKS!) Out of desperation I did a what the hell and found that it worked. Ran the factory default install, and lo and behold no more ARCHIE! He's gone the way of Archie Bunker, and is now extinct!

That being said, still issues.

The computer is a desktop. According to the bios there is no CD-ROM installed. Which tells me that the person I bought the computer from on E-Bay (hey the dude's a power seller with over 3k positive results, and a 100% rating how was I to know) didn't run the clean install as advertised, and didn't test the computer before sending it out.

My thinking at this point is keep the damned thing (CD-WR's are fairly cheap to replace, and how often can you get a duo core 4 gig memory for under $200.00 USD WITH shipping?...lol Needless to say unless the dude forks over either a new DVD or the funds it costs me to replace it, his 100% rating is in the toilet...lol

Thanks to all that have shown an interest in this bit of insanity! Well met to you all!

John

#17 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:13 PM

That being said, still issues.

The computer is a desktop. According to the bios there is no CD-ROM installed. Which tells me that the person I bought the computer from on E-Bay (hey the dude's a power seller with over 3k positive results, and a 100% rating how was I to know) didn't run the clean install as advertised, and didn't test the computer before sending it out.

My thinking at this point is keep the damned thing (CD-WR's are fairly cheap to replace, and how often can you get a duo core 4 gig memory for under $200.00 USD WITH shipping?...lol Needless to say unless the dude forks over either a new DVD or the funds it costs me to replace it, his 100% rating is in the toilet...lol


On this I wouldn't be so pessimistic. :)

Expecially if the DVD is a SATA one, it is VERY probable that the cable got disconnected during shipment.

SATA connectors are usually both loose and lousy. :)

I would check all cable connections before giving up/buying a new drive.

:)

jaclaz




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