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#1 pscEx

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:04 PM

During rebuild, the old forum's title seems to be lost.

Originally at has been something with 'nativeEx' and 'LiveXP'

If you look into the pinned topics, they all are about nativeEx, none about LiveXP.

I think that the title should be at least 'nativeEx and LiveXP' (if not 'nativeEx and derivates like LiveXP')

Peter

#2 MedEvil

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:24 PM

Better watch out or it will be LiveXp and derivates! :cheers:

I'm a annoyed about that too. Isn't there a neutral title that does not favor any of the projects?
Also the new improved forum structure is a mess imo. Without the search there is no hope of finding what one is looking for.

For instance:
-bootland-winbuilder-LiveXP
-bootland-winbuilder-VistaPE
-bootland-winbuilder-projects

Logical would be:
-bootland-winbuilder
-bootland-projects-LiveXP
-bootland-projects-VistaPE
-bootland-projects-...

:cheers:

#3 Galapo

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 09:58 PM

What about "nativeEx-based projects"? Would that be a suitable title?

Regards,
Galapo.

#4 cdob

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:23 PM

Dosn't NaughtyPE deserve a section too?

#5 Galapo

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:05 PM

NaughtyPE would be included under the inclusive "nativeEx-based projects" title if it is accepted.

Else we perhaps stucture as per MedEvil's suggestion:

Logical would be:
-bootland-winbuilder
-bootland-projects-LiveXP
-bootland-projects-VistaPE
-bootland-projects-...


Regards,
Galapo.

#6 MedEvil

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:19 PM

What about "nativeEx-based projects"? Would that be a suitable title?

Sounds good at first, but is actually bad. Cause one would need to know which projects are nativeEx based to make use of that category.

I would eighter don't split between vista and nativeEx based or name them after the used source Vista/Win7 projects and XP/Win2003 projects.

For each project i would suggest a group with two pinned threads. One for general project announcements and stuff like that and one for bug reporting. Both are free from jaclaz regulation to not delete posts. ;-)
The rest is free for support and any other kind of post regarding the project.

The group 'development' is something, i can't quite fit in.
Should we have a group development with subgroups like Vista based, xp based and winbuilder or should the development discussions take rather place inside the project groups?

What i miss anyhow, is a group designated for asking questions/help for new projects/scripts one is working on.


:cheers:

#7 Nuno Brito

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:57 PM

We need an identifiable name and preferably short for each windows platform, that was the only reason why the title was reduced to LiveXP over the latest modifications.

Reading the subtitle:

Projects targeted to build boot disks based on PE environments and NativeEx related projects.


LiveXP is orientated towards the masses and has a quickly recognizable name. NativeEx is used as base for these projects while doubling as test project for more advanced features on newer wb versions.

I think this action has somewhat hurt Peter's feeling and you surely have good to reasons to be proud of NativeEx. It is an outstanding piece of design but we need this section to keep things as understandable as possible for users that most times don't bother to understand or read any piece of documentation.

Would an exclusive NativeEx section be appropriate to discuss completely experimental project research and testings that you want to try out?

There is an interesting alternative which we are also forgetting. At 911cd.net there is a dedicated winbuilder section which could be used as good discussion point with lots of room to promote individual projects.

Unfortunately it does require a good amount of effort on the developer side to break the ice and actually get some relevant feedback against bartPE or Reatogo but it could become an interesting opportunity for more projects to shine.

I remember thuun's and MedEvil's presentations of their projects:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=22425
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=20057

Look on the Reatogo project which is still somewhat popular on 911cd.net even thought it's abandoned for some years now.

It's a project completely outdated by our current standards and is aimed to provide a multimedia experience, isn't this something naughtyPE does far better for quite some time now?

MedEvil, are you up to the challenge of breaking the ice age?

Go get'em! :cheers:


The group 'development' is something, i can't quite fit in.
Should we have a group development with subgroups like Vista based, xp based and winbuilder or should the development discussions take rather place inside the project groups?


Well.. I also think that the root winbuilder section is missing the context to what should be placed there, it's a very confusing situation indeed.

So I guess it should be fine to move all topics from this root section onto the development section and then we can use it for discussing winbuilder.exe amongst any other things related to development that doesn't fit in the other sections.

This way, if you want to discuss the proposal of a new project then the correct space would either be inside the section of the respective platform and if neither is adequate then use the development section.

The project section remains as central presentation to read and write about available projects without fear of getting lost due to excessive postings.

:cheers:

#8 pscEx

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 06:35 PM

I understood.

As already known from the old French Kings, the state policy demands that some individual earnings or successes have to go into the background in order to fullfill the King's ideas.

C'est la vie

Peter

#9 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 07:28 PM

As already known from the old French Kings, the state policy demands that some individual earnings or successes have to go into the background in order to fullfill the King's ideas.

C'est la vie


As I see it, the King :cheers:, besides semi-randomly changing the looks and organization of the Forum, has NO idea about a better layout.

If he actually had it, what you wrote would possibly apply. :cheers:

As I see it, Medevil is almost (not entirely! :cheers:) right.



A suitable tree would be, as I see it:
Winbuilder
Winbuilder->Projects
Winbuilder->Projects>LiveXP
Winbuilder->Projects->NativeEx
Winbuilder->Projects>VistaPE
Winbuilder->Projects>Other Projects

"Project Forge" contains mostly non-winbuilder-related projects, it should be renamed to something else since everywhere winbuilder-projects are calle "projects", to avoid confusion.

Moreover I see a lot of posts/threads that don't really "fit" in any of the other sections, if the topic is open to discussion/suggestions, there are several other parts of the board that need in my view be re-organized logically.

As well, developers have their part of responsability for the CHAOS, at least for me, understanding the differences between the n "NativeEx" based project is a nightmare:
NativeEx_barebone
NativeEx_BSOR
NativeEx_moa_Lite
NativeEx_PuzzleXP
NativePE

Names taken from the nice thingy that Ispy started (and seemingly abandoned :cheers: or that however doesn't seem like "supported" by the actual developers) something that I find vital:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4696
http://ispy.fcpages.com/Projects2.html

If we don't have something like this, possibly bettered and "supported" by everyone, if even yours truly often cannot find what he is looking for :cheers:, how do you think people will find anything or anything useful? ::cheers:

This thread:
http://www.boot-land...?...ic=7209&hl=
though evidently started with the wrong attitude, once cleared of unfriendliness and arrogance, describes what a first time user may experience. :cheers:

We already have the math quiz when registering, do we really need to make user pass the "find something notwithstanding CHAOS" test also? :cheers:


jaclaz

#10 TheHive

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 07:35 PM

A suitable tree would be, as I see it:
Winbuilder
Winbuilder->Projects
Winbuilder->Projects>LiveXP
Winbuilder->Projects->NativeEx
Winbuilder->Projects>VistaPE
Winbuilder->Projects>Other Projects


NativeEx_barebone
NativeEx_BSOR
NativeEx_moa_Lite
NativeEx_PuzzleXP
NativePE

The Native Projects would fall under NativeEx subforum


Dont forget
Winbuilder->Projects>NaughtyPE

#11 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 07:43 PM

The Native Projects would fall under NativeEx subforum

[sarcasm]
Really? :cheers:

I hadn't thought about this opportunity...
[/sarcasm]

I was only pointing out that psc is very prolific in making "different" editions :cheers:, completely failing to create a distinctive name for them....:cheers:



Dont forget
Winbuilder->Projects>NaughtyPE

I didn't, I intentionally :cheers: left it out from the example to see if someone would fall for it.

I actually expected to annoy a bit Medevil :cheers:, but no, you had to peek in it with your big nose.....:cheers:

:cheers:

Just kidding. :cheers:

:cheers:

jaclaz

#12 pscEx

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 07:52 PM

As well, developers have their part of responsability for the CHAOS, at least for me, understanding the differences between the n "NativeEx" based project is a nightmare:
NativeEx_barebone
NativeEx_BSOR
NativeEx_moa_Lite
NativeEx_PuzzleXP
NativePE

Sorry that I contradict. There is no, and never has been a chaos with my projects. Maybe my explanations are too difficult for non-Programmers to understand.
Maybe we need a forum 'Translating programmer's descriptions into something user understandable'

The nativeEx idea is explained at several places, for the first time here.
It is only an 'idea', 'functionality' or whatever you want. And it can cause THOUSANDS of developers to create their own project, based on nativeEx.

Here SOME nativeEx derivates made by me (you mentioned)
nativeEx_BSOR
nativeEx_moa_Lite
nativeEx_PuzzleXP

Peter

Any question, if tomorrow somebody creates a project nativeEx_To_Honour_Jaclaz?
You know that the root idea is nativeEx (using actual language from the source CD, using buildModel for shortcuts, using ...). The rest maybe a more or less useful collection of some scripts.

BTW: LiveXP should have the name nativeEx_LiveXP. That would fit into the logic.

#13 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 08:09 PM

OK, let me try to rephrase. :cheers:

Any of your programs should be named:
BIOS_WINDOWS_XP_SPx_WINBUILDER_NativeEx_something

or more exactly:

BIOS_MBR_bootsector_bootloader_WINDOWS_XP_SPx_WINBUILDER_NativeEx_something

to follow your logic to the extreme....

First time users will only "see" the "BIOS" part and forget all the rest.

I know the concept behind Native, and actually like it and appreciate very much your works :cheers:, but nonetheless pre-fixing anything with "Native_Ex", in my view is superfluous, expecially if they are placed in a "Native_Ex" forum.

It reminds me a little of the old 60's Batman TV movies, where they had the bat-cave, the bat-mobile, bat-this and bat-that, and bat-other.....
http://www.retrojunk..._articles/3339/

:cheers:

:cheers:

jaclaz

#14 pscEx

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 08:12 PM

OK, let me try to rephrase. :cheers:

Any of your programs should be named:
BIOS_WINDOWS_XP_SPx_WINBUILDER_NativeEx_something

or more exactly:

BIOS_MBR_bootsector_bootloader_WINDOWS_XP_SPx_WINBUILDER_NativeEx_something

to follow your logic to the extreme....

First time users will only "see" the "BIOS" part and forget all the rest.

I know the concept behind Native, and actually like it and appreciate very much your works :cheers: , but nonetheless pre-fixing anything with "Native_Ex", in my view is superfluous, expecially if they are placed in a "Native_Ex" forum.

It reminds me a little of the old 60's Batman TV movies, where they had the bat-cave, the bat-mobile, bat-this and bat-that, and bat-other.....
http://www.retrojunk..._articles/3339/

:cheers:

:cheers:

jaclaz

Understood

Peter :cheers:

#15 TheHive

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 10:00 PM

So where is the NativeEx_BatCave_Jaclaz project. Very catchy. Hugh! :cheers:

failing to create a distinctive name for them


What do want NativeEx_PSC_Jaclaz_TheHive_Community_LiveXP. :cheers:




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