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[project] PWBoot <Latest version: 3.0.2>

usb windows boot full pwboot vhd patch

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#176 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:07 AM

Since you can put an "internal" hard disk into an external USB case, the disk drive inside an USB enclosure can be as fast as an internal disk drive (it can actually be the same disk drive).
The bottleneck is obviously in the interface.
USB (2.0) is much slower than what you can get with a direct IDE or SATA connection.

Amalux clearly does not use diskmod. (or at least this is what emerged from the last - very tiring I must say :( - exchange of info)
I personally don't use (meaning day by day use) Windows 7, and definitely not installed in an external USB.

About paging file (and the use of it and the opportunity of it) there are historically two "school of thoughts".
I personally belong to the one that finds it unneeded if *enough* RAM is available.
The other one is made by people that think that a pagefile is needed anyway.

Obviously the *enough* in the above can vary greatly. :whistling:

Talking of this usually ends in the usual FAT32 vs. NTFS, Dracula vs. Mickey Mouse, Godzilla vs. King Kong kind of pointless discussion where everyone - mostly fanboys without the minimal idea of what they are talking about - simply SHOUT how their idea is better. :( (and just for the record the revived dinosaur can kick ass of the overgrown chimpanzee with one hand tied behind his back ;))

In this cases, the only sensible advice is:

Do the right thing!



:cheers:
Wonko

#177 amalux

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:08 PM

@amalux
#7 is irrelevant if you ignore #5, otherwise it becomes relevant, in the context of the request of having the pagefile on the same USB disk..

I understand how these mis-understandings happen; just to set the record strait, I was not responding to SuperJMN's question about DiskMod (of which I know very little). I was responding to his original, main issue of how to install Windows 7 to the USB device and the issues that followed; ultra-low graphics, Windows service not started etc. which have nothing to do with DiskMod (evidenced by the fact, his first two posts, describing in detail his issue, make no mention of DiskMod or a pagefile). I was able to reproduce his exact issues, using his method of install on hardware that works fine without DiskMod. His mention/question of DiskMod only came later, after I had successfully diagnosed/reproduced his issue and suggested an alternative installation method that turned out to work fine (all without DiskMod).

Thanks for you thorough testing. I opted by the method you commented and it worked like a charm. The point of having a Windows installation that can be booted up its to have an autonomous ext. HDD that can help you fix your computer when it's broken or simply make your Windows installation portable (for work, for example). In my case, I also wanted to make the same Windows partition able to host a paging file. This isn't permitted by the OS by default, so I had to follow the instructions to use DiskMod. It was a bit tricky, but it worked in the end.

Are you using DiskMod? What about your drive specs? my unit is a Toshiba 2.5 USB 2.0 with 30 MB/s sequential read/write time. Not quick, I would say :) A paging file definitely helps.

He clearly asked me about DisMod after his original question/issue had been resolved! I admit to not answering him on the DiskMod question, other than the fact I don't use it, because I didn't think it was pertinent to the earlier question, I didn't know much about it and because I was also looking into a second issue raised by OldFart and didn't want to get the two posters issues confused. Your assumption that both posters issues were pagefile related has been a huge part of the problem.

Regarding the second (unrelated) issue of OldFarts pagefile, I admit I wasn't sure why my USB installation retained a pagefile while his did not but I didn't have immediate access to my USB drive (at work) as I mentioned, so I put that on hold. Meanwhile, another confusion was developing regarding OldFarts description of his install method. Everything he described, installing to SATA connected drive, removing said drive for reconnection as external USB device etc. is exactly what one would do if they still had an internal, working drive. His assumption I would know there was no internal drive for that computer caused more mis-understandings.

Meanwhile, your only contribution up to this point had been to post a link without explanation as to how this would help or even which issue was being addressed. Something like: "The problem may be, there's no internal drive available, DiskMod forces the pagefile to USB disk." along with the link could have saved untold time and effort sorting through the wreckage later (this assumes, for the moment, you really knew the issue was a missing/unusable internal drive). Your continued insistence that "to have a pagefile on a USB disk you *need* something" (like DiskMod) wasn't helpful without including the key (missing throughout the discussion) piece of information; 'to have a pagefile located on a USB disk you *need* something' would have been infinitely more useful.

I'm still not sure you understand, having a pagefile doesn't mean the pagefile.sys is located on the same drive! I have a pagefile, it works fine; it just happens to be located elsewhere. Again, assuming you knew the issue was no internal drive available for the pagefile, a little explanation of this fact would have gone a long ways towards avoiding this marathon length runaround. By the time you finally began explaining yourself (in post #159), it was already too late to avoid much of the embitterment confusion.

I'm glad everything seems to have been worked out and I, for one, have learned something important about pagefiles (location, location, location) and now know what DiskMod does. In the future, when asked about pagefiles on USB, my first question will be, do you need it located on the USB drive ;)

#178 amalux

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

  • Do you use the DiskMod method?
  • What are the specs of your USB drive? (the one from which you boot Windows).

1. No, but may in the future (especially if USB is stand-alone drive for PC).
2. I will test and post for you when I get back to the office.

:cheers:

#179 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:53 PM

@amalux
Yep :), everything is cool and fine. :fine:

Part of the misunderstanding was born because I was in a hurry and not even being very sure IF the issue was related to having the pagefile for the USB installed OS on the USB disk, I posted the link in a dubitative way, without much details (actually none, but the contents of the linked thread are very clear about the scope of that filter driver approach), nor asking confirmation if the request was actually that one.

So, if one had a problem about not being able to have the pagefile.sys on the USB disk, he/she would have found a possible solution, otherwise he/she could have ignored that reference as not being of relevance to his/her issue.

BTW, this is exactly what happened, OldFart "skipped" it, SuperJMN made use of it.

Then you probably overlooked the "on" here or took if for "for" (i know, it is confusing, maybe we should start saying that a pagefile belongs to an OS instance or that it is for an OS instance BUT resides on a disk/drive :dubbio:):

@amalux
As already hinted:
http://reboot.pro/6851/page__st__143
to have a pagefile on a USB disk you *need* something, it is very possible that PWboot already does a mod like that, but I wouldn't be so sure. :dubbio:
The screenshot you posted does not show on WHICH drive the pagefile is, if you could click on the "Change" button and post a screenshot of the details of the pagefile, it would be an actual confirmation.


Since I knew what I meant :unsure: I continued to trying to show you how one thing is having a pagefile and another thing is knowing where it resides physically (which IMHO is a not-so-trifling detail) whilst you were more focused on the binary pagefile yes/pagefile no (no matter on which disk it is).

Happy that now everything has been cleared. :thumbsup:


:cheers:
Wonko

#180 amalux

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 06:53 PM

2. I will test and post for you when I get back to the office.

OK, here are some results on my USB drive:
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

I'm not sure how accurate these tests are or what they mean but there you go ;)


@Wonko

:thumbsup:

#181 M2S

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 07:09 PM

Hi,


There's a little issue: I installed it onto a 8 gb kingston flash drive. Once installation completed (installed successfully), it keeps restarting. I pached it, and now it oks. Only
thing is the usb mouse/keyboard not works. It show drivers installed succesfully, and no notifications in device manager, but not working :)

Any possibilities to fix this? Anything else are working fine.

Regards,
M2S

#182 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:08 PM

Only thing is the usb mouse/keyboard not works. It show drivers installed succesfully, and no notifications in device manager, but not working :)

Any possibilities to fix this? Anything else are working fine.

It is difficult to say :(, it is possible that the issue is with the actual BIOS of that motherboard :unsure: (some simply do not "like" to be booted from USB and have HID devices connected to the USB bus) OR it may be possible that by changing *something* in the BIOS settings keyboard and mouse start working.

OR, it may be the specific USB ports that you used (they do have an "order" of priority/capabilities)

OR, it may be a source issue (possibly fixed by a later KB fix).


Check against:
http://www.sevenforu...rking-boot.html
http://www.sevenforu...after-boot.html
http://support.micro...kb/310923/en-us

The .net is full of "queer" problems similar to yours, many UNresolved :(:
http://superuser.com...ng-in-windows-7
http://answers.micro...8c-68bda95317f4

In any case, try with just *one* device connected Mouse OR keyboard, after having deleted the drivers from device manager (of course you will need PS/2 thingies to do that). :dubbio:



:cheers:
Wonko

#183 M2S

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:22 PM

Ok, will do now.

This is a Fujitsu Siemens V5555 laptop. As a serial fault, it has a damaged chipset, and i lost lot of hardware stuff, like motherboard SATA damaged (drops hdd randomly or not boot) or PXE not working.
So the only solution is the USB-HDD (or dropping laptop to road and go through by a road roller). I used that laptop for coding, so onboard keyboard and touchpad are less than enough.

I downloaded some prebuilded image before, and that worked well, meaning usb worked. It was a fully modified one, like custom logos, removed components, added utilities, and of course, i don't loved it.

Now i try to install an english win7 ultimate (previously i tried hungarian), possible it can be file language mismatch too.

Regards,
Zoltan

#184 guimenez

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:07 AM

This is fantastic!!!

Nice job man :)

Can anyone explain me how to boot my vhd from usb?

many thanks

#185 OldFart

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:02 PM

Sorry for not contributing anything to this thread laterly. I've been busy as hell with other things; painting the house, putting in a 600 sq. ft. granite flagstone patio, building a new greenhouse, and watching my bank account shrink rapidly. Now I have another (probably dumb) question;

Has anyone (successfully) applied PWBoot and DiskMod to a Windows 8 installation?

I'm going to give it a shot, just to see what happens. I'm assuming (perhaps incorrrectly) that it WILL work, since 8 is based on 7 and those tools have been successfully applied to 7.

This is the same setup as before;

1. the drive (2.5" Seagate Momentus 7200.3 160 GB) is currently connected to a SATA port on the motherboard.
2. Win8 installed without issue and was updated with all the latest patches/fixes/bone-headed crap that MS installs during an update.
3. ALL the hardware works, meaning that Win8 installed drivers to support ALL the internal and external devices/chipsets/whatever is/are/were connected.
4. After "patching" (as yet to be performed), the drive will be plugged into an external SATA-to-USB adapter.
5. NO OTHER HARD DRIVE will be installed, so again ... this is a single drive system, with the only drive being connected via an external USB cable to a USB 2.0 port.

My hope (and goal) is for PWBoot to work correctly, so I can boot the drive via the USB port, and that DiskMod will give me a swap file. Fingers crossed. I'll be taking a crack at all this later this afternoon.

And a related question; while I've glanced at the info on using DiskMod, I haven't delved deep enough into the documentation yet to know whether or not I should run it (DiskMod) while the drive is connected to the internal SATA port, or if I'm supposed to wait until it's connected to the USB port, and then run it. Or, if it even matters (either/or). If someone/anyone could clarify that point for me, it would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, in one of my previous posts I asked about using the Firewire port on the motherboard, to boot a drive from. I connected a drive to that port but the BIOS doesn't support that feature (booting from Firewire). So, unfortunately, it's a moot point ... at least on MY motherboard. While there may very well be other motherboards/BIOS combinations that DO provide that feature, mine does not. Such is life.

And that's about all I know. I look forward to any and all feedback and I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Go Packers!

Old Fart

#186 OldFart

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:12 AM

Update: I ran PWBoot on the Win8 installation, and it reported that it was successful. I shut down, unplugged the drive from the SATA port, plugged it into the SATA-to-USB adapter, booted right back up into Win8, WITH the original SWAP FILE still in the root. And, Win8 is actually using it. As it turned out, I didn't have to run the DiskMod utility at all. The swap file was right where it was supposed to be, and of the exact same size as it was when the drive was plugged into the SATA port (still "system managed"). Amazing.

This particular drive is VERY snappy, by the way. Much fast as a USB drive than the Toshiba drive I first tried with Win7. Maybe Win8 is just a lot faster. Who knows. I'm going to take another stab at Win7 again and see if I can do it RIGHT this time. We'll see.

Thanks again for all the help.

Old Fart

#187 amalux

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:55 AM

Thanks for the report, that's very cool :)

Which version Win 8 are you using, 7989?

#188 cdob

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:24 PM

Win8, WITH the original SWAP FILE still in the root

Thanks for the clearance. That's Win8 support USB boot fully, drivers and pagefile.

Win8 boot from USB out of the box, no need to configure Win8.
http://reboot.pro/68...post__p__137798

#189 OldFart

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:48 PM

Sorry. It's Windown 8 build 8102. The version with Visual Studio 11, Expression Blend 5 (for website development), and other developer tools. It's a rather large ISO image, as I recall, and includes everything they have (or had at the time) for Win8. It "expries" some time next April, I think.

I also got rid of all the on-screen text (warning and beta info) that MS embeds in the lower right corner, with the exception of the .hash alpha/numeric string (working on that though), as well as turned off the goofy "touch panel" interface ("Metro") and restored the standard Windows 'Start' menu. I have a touch-screen monitor, but it's only 19", and I'm spoiled with my 24" Samsung monitor. Now Win8 looks like Win7, but it's MUCH faster (even running from the USB drive).

But, all that is another story and doesn't really belong in this thread. Just thought I'd pass along that if you DON'T like the direction Win8 is headed (the user interface), there's LOTS of info out there on how to change it and make it more "user" friendly (or less "junky" looking, if you dig that). Metro makes no sense (to me, anyway) unless you use a touch-screen monitor (or tablet). It's easier to use a mouse or trackball than to REACH out and touch the screen on your desktop. That's just MY opinion though. Your mileage may vary.

Old Fart

#190 _Vpem

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:42 PM

Hi...

  • Posted Image
Who I am supposed to install a fresh system to my USB HDD Drive?

Thanks. (I tried to be specific for you to help me! please, do it).



I've got exactly the same problem as you and did the same as you to install Windows 7
Windows sources: Windows 64 SP1 US . Ultimate version.

even if i try to plus my HDD in serial ata as unique disk instead off usb, same issue.

i've ot no idea for the moment.

#191 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:10 PM

I've got exactly the same problem as you and did the same as you to install Windows 7
Windows sources: Windows 64 SP1 US . Ultimate version.

even if i try to plus my HDD in serial ata as unique disk instead off usb, same issue.

i've ot no idea for the moment.

OP solved the problem by installing to a non-USB disk and image the install.
You may want to try the new feature of WINNTSETUP:
http://www.msfn.org/...winntsetup-v21/

:cheers:
Wonko

#192 amalux

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:56 PM

It's Windown 8 build 8102.


Win8 boot from USB out of the box, no need to configure Win8.

Win 8 x64 8102 (and previous), booting from USB is not working on this machine (hp Pav amd64), get 'The PC has run into a problem...' if installed to internal hard (working fine) and then connect as USB. If patched with PWBoot, get 'Preparing automatic repair' but fails. Win 7 x64 (sp0+1) works fine on this machine booting from USB with same setup. Just reporting...

#193 OldFart

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:24 PM

cdob, on 12 November 2011 - 06:24 AM, said:

"Win8 boot from USB out of the box, no need to configure Win8."

None of my business, but from personal experience, the above statement isn't true. Both me and a buddy of mine tried booting an unpatched (didn't run PWBoot on it) Win8 hard drive, originally installed from a SATA port on our computers, from an external USB enclosure, and it flat refused to boot. We both got the exact same error; windoze failed to boot, run the setup/repair disc, etc.

Whatever it (the error) said, I don't remember exactly, but my point is that both drives refused to boot until we patched them with PWBoot. After that, it was clear sailing. I don't know what method cdob used to install Win8 or what his definition of "no need to configure Win8" really means, so I can only comment on my own (and my buddy's) experience with it. Unpatched, it wouldn't boot. Patched with PWBoot, it came right up and ran like a raped ape, via USB enclosure.

The patching of both drives was performed while they were still connected to the SATA port, just to be perfectly clear.

Old Fart

#194 steve6375

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:19 PM

I had problems with the 64-bit version when USB booting. The 32-bit version seemed to work though (mostly)!.

#195 cdob

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:57 PM

Win 8 x64 8102 (and previous), booting from USB is not working on this machine (hp Pav amd64), get 'The PC has run into a problem...' if installed to internal hard (working fine) and then connect as USB. If patched with PWBoot,

Thanks for clarify.
I did "imagex /apply" Win 8 64 bit to a USB SSD. Installation did finish.

Can you imagex /apply to USB?
Which hp Pav do you use? It's a timing issue still?

None of my business, but from personal experience, the above statement isn't true.

Thanks for report. Always nice to get reports from different hardware and approaches.

what his definition of "no need to configure Win8" really means

Definition relate to Post #125: native USB boot registry settings inside install.wim. http://reboot.pro/68...post__p__137799

Unpatched, it wouldn't boot. Patched with PWBoot, it came right up and ran like a raped ape, via USB enclosure.

Therefore patching is required at some hardware/approaches still.

#196 OldFart

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:00 AM

Not to beat a dead horse, but the version I've been installing, twice now, on two different hard drives and two different USB enclosures, is Windows 8, Build 8102, 64-bit.

I've been installing via an Intel-based Micro-ATX motherboard, custom built, open chassis. No idea who makes the motherboard, but it looks like it came out of a very small, bare-bones computer (Shuttle, maybe). It has a BIOS option to boot from USB hard drives, which is probably pretty common these days. It also has a Firewire port, but that's not bootable. I WISH it had an eSata port. It only has two expansion slots (one PCI Express, one PCI), two ram slots (4 GB of DDR2 ram), gigabit Ethernet, half a dozen USB ports, onboard video and audio (Intel), and that's about it. I'd say it's 3 to 4 years old.

By the way, Windows 8 on a USB drive runs VERY snappy (faster than Windows 7 running from a SATA port). I hope Microsloth doesn't hose it up before it's released. It's also VERY stable, for a Beta. I've had zero issues with it and I've thrown all kinds of software and hardware at it. Impressive, to say the least.

Old Fart

#197 SuperJMN

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

I don't know how, but I'm now totally unable to configure a new installation of Windows 7 that boots from USB.
  • I create a virtual machine
  • Install Acronis True Image on it
  • Make a backup of the system drive (C:)
  • Restore this partition to my USB disk
  • Run PWBOOT and patch the just restored installation
  • Boot and all I get is the BOOTMGR is missing.
For this I am asking you to say what did you do to create your bootable installations. Any suggestion? Thanks a lot!

#198 amalux

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:06 AM

If you have the stupid (hidden) 100MB 'system reserved' partition that's created silently by Win 7 setup, you'll need to include this baby in your Acronis backup image and restore it (along with the C: backup) to the USB. Depending on how this was setup, you may need to create or restore an appropriate MBR as well.

The best (simplest) way to do this is install win 7 to a single, active/primary partition on internal hdd; you can have additional partitions, just one for Win 7. Create your image of this installation for restore to USB with similar partition structure i.e. if image created from first partition on internal drive, restore it to first partition on external drive. Otherwise you'll need to adjust (restore) the MBR accordingly.

--
The other way to do it is to physically connect the USB drive as (temporary) internal drive and install to that directly, then patch it and reconnect as external drive. this avoids any possibility of mis-matched MBR


---
Reading your post again, there may also be an issue running Acronis from virtual machine; I simply don't know if this works. In virtual machine, drive letters often don't match real hardware and you may not have full access to real partitions for creating backups. May I ask why you want to do it this way? You don't need to install Acronis at all, just use rescue media.

#199 mr_nice_2k@yahoo.com

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

Make Windows 7 Ultimate and BSOD viewed VHD Boot not Success why ? and Windows 7 Direct USB Partition İnstalled and Logon Screen Please Wait long and no started Not Successssss ?????? WHYYYYY ????? PWBoot 3.0.2 ugggggghhhhh :((





my english POOR :(

#200 chaotist

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:00 AM

Dhilip89, thanks a lot for your work.

I patched my Win 7 x32 (starter) installation, and it's succesfully boots from USB HDD.

But, when I cloning this bootable partition (by Acronis) to 16Gb USB stick (transcend), I'm getting BSOD 0000007b at several seconds after booting begins. Tried to disable swapping and forced to assign "HDD" type to my flash stick in BIOS, but no success.

What else I can try?





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