Jump to content











Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Separation of system-core and user-stuff: LODR-packs


  • Please log in to reply
520 replies to this topic

#26 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 03 January 2009 - 05:57 PM

It is nice to read nice things from you Peter,

Some more things about 'Midway' to clarify,

With 'Midway' i mean: this is not absolutely sanborrow's method, this is a method that will suit Nuno and Galapo's (and mine) concerns tu use LOD (+wimL)

And i highly believe, many things i wrote can be done automatically by api without changing a script a lot like FastStoneCapture.
With my idea only adding 2 (or 3) options to the begining of [process], and rest can be done by api
ex:
For wimL: 1 interface button and 1 line to the beginin process section for wimL -->will be enough for most scripts like FastStoneCapture--->rest can be done by api
For wimL+LOD: 1 interface button and [LODextra] section for creating .cmd file and related shortcuts for loading on demand

Maybe somebody who understands what i mean can post with better english, if nobody understands, than lets drink beer :cheers: .


Anyway, :cheers:, i will be glad to be the first tester ;):cheers: for the result of work you will do with sanbarrow. Good luck :cheers:

#27 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:00 PM

@ Lancelot - sorry I missed your post ...

I also often use wims to safe space - it doesn't really matter if you use the directory directly or if you wrap it in a wim.
Wrapping in wims of course makes a lot of sense on CD-only builds.

If you carry your optional apps on a USB-disk or stick you can as well use straight directories because size does not matter anymore with recent 2.5 inch USB-disks or large sticks

#28 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:08 PM

Sanborrow,

with your idea of LOD, i just try to combine things together for midway. Saving space is 3rd benefit i wrote on "post #23" (totally i wrote 4 additional benefits for my idea, but with reasons you explanined it should be 5 and maybe more)

anyway, good luck :cheers:

#29 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12688 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:12 PM

It is nice to read nice things from you Peter,

Is it so rarelly?
I always try to tell the truth.

Maybe that sometimes it hurts the interest or opinions of some members. But I do not want to hurt the members themselves with my post. My intention is to point to things which help to become the WB world better.

Peter

#30 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:16 PM

Is it so rarelly?
I always try to tell the truth.

Maybe that sometimes it hurts the interest or opinions of some members. But I do not want to hurt the members themselves with my post. My intention is to point to things which help to become the WB world better.

Peter

This needs another topic, maybe next month :cheers: ;)

#31 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:38 PM

so that other users can use it with minimal requirements.
For example the combined dotnet2 and VMware-apps package I maintain called "esx-tools" needs about 250 Mb of free space in X: during creation.
Thats not practical for daily use of course but you only need to do that once.
Once that is LODR-packed you can then use it on a system with 15 Mb of free space in X:

I think the VirtualBox packages may work with 1 Mb of free space in X:

So by your own admittance you need 250MB of RAM to install + ??MB of RAM to run Application+Dot.Net + 15MB of RAM to have 15MB free on X:
Now please add the RAM required by the OS and i would guess your solution won't run with much less than 1GB of RAM.

Or am i missing something?

And by the way - I rarely use a ramdisk this days as in MOA I don't need one most of the times.

:cheers: You use no Ramdisk and yet have writable space on X:? If your idea is for portable HDD or USB-Stick, it makes even less sense. Sorry.

;)

#32 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12688 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:56 PM

So by your own admittance you need 250MB of RAM to install + ??MB of RAM to run Application+Dot.Net + 15MB of RAM to have 15MB free on X:
Now please add the RAM required by the OS and i would guess your solution won't run with much less than 1GB of RAM.

Or am i missing something?


:cheers: You use no Ramdisk and yet have writable space on X:? If your idea is for portable HDD or USB-Stick, it makes even less sense. Sorry.

;)

Medevil, I do not know your age. But when NASA sent Armstrong to the moon, did you also discuss with them before?

I waited for the result.

Peter

#33 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 03 January 2009 - 07:00 PM

So by your own admittance you need 250MB of RAM to install + ??MB of RAM to run Application+Dot.Net + 15MB of RAM to have 15MB free on X:
Now please add the RAM required by the OS and i would guess your solution won't run with much less than 1GB of RAM.

Or am i missing something?


The dotnet package requires a ramloading build which needs at least 10 maybe 15 Mb of free space in X: - in MOA I usually use a 250 or 280 Mb NTFS-image to do that.


:cheers: You use no Ramdisk and yet have writable space on X:? If your idea is for portable HDD or USB-Stick, it makes even less sense. Sorry.


In MOA environment I use a cheatcode prompt at boot-time where I can redirect the usual ramdisk to where ever - if possible I redirect it to an USB-disk ... but it really doesn't matter.
The redirection is completely transparent - there is no change in behaviour if you a use ramdrive or a truecrypt-container or whatever for R:\

On the USB-disk I use now I have about 4 Gb of apps - all of them can be loaded on demand


But when NASA sent Armstrong to the moon, did you also discuss with them before?

;)

#34 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12688 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 03 January 2009 - 07:56 PM

This needs another topic, maybe next month ;) :cheers:

Then it is better to forget the issue!

(With respect to my age) Next month (> 28 days!!!) I have forgotten this discussion

Peter :cheers:

#35 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 03 January 2009 - 07:58 PM

when NASA sent Armstrong to the moon, did you also discuss with them before?

Maybe they better should have. :cheers:
No need to kill a few people by a big fire cracker, just to avoid some discussion and planing!

;)

#36 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12688 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:12 PM

Maybe they better should have. ;)
No need to kill a few people by a big fire cracker, just to avoid some discussion and planing!

:cheers:

Armstrong killed by 'a big fire cracker' ????
When ????
Where ????
How ????

Maybe I'm currently really a good friend of Mr. Altzheimer :cheers:

Peter

#37 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:25 PM

@ Nuno

you are so worried about additonal work this may require. Really - don't worry.

It just took me two minutes to translate my virtualbox-lodr-pack with hardcoded paths to something that may more fit your needs.
Adopting a 15 lines batch to new environment really is no work at all.
See yourself

This pack now only assumes you have regsvr32.exe , drv_ctl.exe and snetcfg.exe somewhere in your path.
I guess this is really not asking for too much ...

@echo off



if not exist %programsdir%\virtualbox\Virtualbox.exe md %programsdir%\virtualbox

if not exist %programsdir%\virtualbox\Virtualbox.exe junction virtualbox %programsdir%\virtualbox

if not exist %programsdir%\virtualbox\Virtualbox.exe imagex /mount %sfxdir%\virtualbox21.wim 1 %programsdir%\virtualbox

if not exist %programsdir%\virtualbox\Virtualbox.exe exit



regsvr32 /s %programsdir%\virtualbox\VBoxC.dll

copy %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\network\netflt\protocol\VBoxNetFltNotify.dll %systemroot%\system32\VBoxNetFltNotify.dll

copy %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\network\netflt\miniport\VBoxNetFlt_m.inf %inf-dir%\VBoxNetFlt_m.inf

copy %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\network\netflt\protocol\VBoxNetFlt.inf %systemroot%\inf\VBoxNetFlt.inf

copy %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\network\netflt\protocol\VBoxNetFlt.sys %systemroot%\system32\drivers\VBoxNetFlt.sys

snetcfg -v -l %systemroot%\inf\VBoxNetFlt.inf -c s -i sun_VBoxNetFlt

snetcfg -v -l %systemroot%\inf\VBoxNetFlt_m.inf -c s -i sun_VBoxNetFltmp

regsvr32 /s VBoxNetFltNotify.dll

drv_ctl --inst-nostart VBoxDrv %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\VBoxDrv\VBoxDrv.sys

drv_ctl --inst-nostart VBoxUSB %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\USB\device\VBoxUSB.sys

drv_ctl --inst-nostart VBoxUSBMon %programsdir%\virtualbox\drivers\USB\filter\VBoxUSBMon.sys

net start VBoxNetFlt

net start VBoxDrv

net start VBoxUSBMon

start %programsdir%\virtualbox\VBoxSVC.exe

start %programsdir%\virtualbox\Virtualbox.exe

rem pause

exit

:cheers:

#38 Galapo

Galapo

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 3841 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 03 January 2009 - 09:48 PM

Whats the problem with hard-coded driveletters ?

Because then the LODR-pack would be tied to the project under which it was developed.

I would like to see LODR-pack being able to be used outside of PE environment, where, say, %SystemDrive% is generally c: rather than x: etc.

Also, maybe these LODR-packs should also provide for uninstalling themselves when no longer needed in addition to providing installation instructions.

Regards,
Galapo.

#39 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 03 January 2009 - 09:54 PM

I would like to see LODR-pack being able to be used outside of PE environment, where, say, %SystemDrive% is generally c: rather than x: etc.


Galapo - thats usually called "portable app" then - thats much much more work.
In PE you usually don't need any cleanup routines - don't you ?

#40 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 03 January 2009 - 11:39 PM

Armstrong killed by 'a big fire cracker' ????
When ????
Where ????
How ????

Who said anything about Armstrong? :cheers:

We're talking here, while you're at the first steps of your idea.

And during the first steps of the project, to send a man to the moon, namely Mr. Armstrong.
A number of people died and this includes some astronauts, that were killed in their big fire cracker.


;)

#41 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 03 January 2009 - 11:50 PM

Or am i missing something?

Yes! A fully working LiveXP with all the tools you need, fully loaded into RAM (only way to go) takes up about 150MB or memory; even a multi-media pe with all the works uses maybe 2-300MB, hardly advanced technology! I build and test all my livexp's (RAM loaded) on a 512MB RAM 'older machine' just to make sure issues like you describe are avoided, so you need not panic over this any further (but I'm sure you will) :cheers:

#42 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 04 January 2009 - 12:34 AM

Amalux, would like to see your fully working LiveXP+Tools in a 150MB image. Sounds more like nativeEX_barebone+Tools to me. :cheers:

But generally you plan on at least 200MB RAM for use as RAM, which is cutting it a bit close for the video players, but else should be sufficient.

Now imagine Dot.net get's installed into your setup and we're already more or less part the 750MB line.

No big deal today, where every new computer comes with 4GB and more of RAM.
But if one already plans to run ones PE only on machines like that, then why oh why all the hussle with PE building?

On a machine like that one can autoinstall a XP in less then 10minutes and everything works. Every hardware, every software that one chooses. No dependencies to watch out for, no scripts to write.

PE has one advantage and one advantage only. It can run straight of a CD, without the need to copy or install anything to any place and thus use the least amount of RAM possible.
Once this advantage is of no consequences, PE only has disadvantages! And thus i simply can not understand, why anyone, who plans to build a live system for a computer with more than enough RAM, would actually choose a PE of some kind! ;)

:cheers:

#43 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:01 AM

Now imagine Dot.net get's installed into your setup and we're already more or less part the 750MB line.

If the LODR-pack scenario requires more than 512MB of RAM installed on the machine than, actually, I agree with you on this one. That wasn't part of my understanding and would change the dynamic completely. I simply don't know and will have to rely on others who know more until I can do some trials myself - I guess time will tell :cheers:

#44 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:16 AM

If the LODR-pack scenario requires more than 512MB of RAM installed on the machine


??? - it does not - what makes you think so ???

#45 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:19 AM

??? - it does not - what makes you think so ???

Like I said I don't know until I test but this is good news! :cheers:

#46 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 04 January 2009 - 07:48 AM

Having a bit of trouble with moa tut here; the following links are bad:
4. add drivers
http://downloads.lit...ex.php?dlid=827
- found this one
7. download latest moa-23*-plugin.zip
http://sanbarrow.com...3005-plugin.zip
multchoice.JPG

Attached Thumbnails

  • 3props.JPG


#47 sanbarrow

sanbarrow

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Germany - Sauerland

Posted 04 January 2009 - 11:53 AM

What do you want with that hundred years old plugins ???
Where do you find those very out-dated links ?
This is latest version ...

http://sanbarrow.com...4-setup-024.exe

#48 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 04 January 2009 - 11:58 AM

Galapo, Peter

I cant use wimpack.exe on builds for now, but it is better to put half of my idea (the other half will be load on demand) (all idea is at post 23 and post 26) in a simple script
can you check this:

http://lancelot.winb...FSCapture53.rar

this is NOT a ready script, look two // MISSING - STAGE in script file

i hope it is more understandable now? what do you think ?


ps: message was first posted to wrong topic, sorry, now fixed :cheers:

#49 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 04 January 2009 - 02:02 PM

??? - it does not - what makes you think so ???

Sanbarrow appearantly you're a wizard, you keep needing system resources while explaining, that you don't need while actually running. :cheers:
Can't wait to see the final result.

;)

#50 JonF

JonF

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1185 posts
  • Location:Boston, MA
  •  
    United States

Posted 04 January 2009 - 02:04 PM

Yes! A fully working LiveXP with all the tools you need, fully loaded into RAM (only way to go) takes up about 150MB or memory;

Pah! I've booted BartPE on 128 MB machines once in a while, and need the facility to do so. Once I even booted BartPE on a 64 MB machine and did some useful work.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users