73 replies to this topic

[pscEx]

Hi,
leider bekomme ich nach sehr vielen versuchen kein Projekt zum Abschluß.
XP Live
Mein Problem: Some needed files missing in BootSDI

[English] (very free translation)
I cannot build the project successfully, because some files are missing which are needed for BootSDI script
[/English]

Suggestion to Galapo, Lancelot:
In the 'Factory delivery' make scripts to default which can be built with the 'minimum' download: Pure ISO, emulator qEmu!

Peter

[Lancelot]

psc,

Live 'Factory delivery' have always CreateISO and Qemu selected , this 'Factory Settings' never changed. It is sad you start this topic.

This is micha041 fault or lack of experience or being careless, selecting BootSDI from the menu and trying to build without reading BootSDI gui. This is common for beginners who tries bootsdi. As he wrote to german topic, i guess he missed reading BootSDI gui. I hope your repy to micha041 helps.


This event leads another issue and question in my mind which cause users build till the begining of bootsdi script and fails. Will write next week.

Happy new year.

[pscEx]

Let me tell my story:

I downloaded a fresh LiveXP with the 'Recommended' choice, added ONLY the source CD (XP SP3 German) and started the build.

After about 12 minutes qEmu started and remained static with this picture:

After waiting for about 4 minutes w/o any change, I killed qEmu.

Then ImgBurn came up. Why? Should I burn a CD after an unsuccessful test?

In my opinion, the 'recommended' download maybe shoud have the scripts it currently has.

But it should have much less SELECTED scripts!
In the very first trial, running into an emulator, MassStorage drivers, AntiVir scripts etc. are really not necessary.
They can be added by the user if he wants to burn a real CD or to build an USB stick.

As a first time user after 18 minutes without success, I would be rather disappointed and maybe 'Forget this Bulls***'

Peter

[amalux]

Let me tell my story:

I downloaded a fresh LiveXP with the 'Recommended' choice, added ONLY the source CD (XP SP3 German) and started the build.

After about 12 minutes qEmu started and remained static with this picture:

After waiting for about 4 minutes w/o any change, I killed qEmu.

Then ImgBurn came up. Why? Should I burn a CD after an unsuccessful test?

In my opinion, the 'recommended' download maybe shoud have the scripts it currently has.

But it should have much less SELECTED scripts!
In the very first trial, running into an emulator, MassStorage drivers, AntiVir scripts etc. are really not necessary.
They can be added by the user if he wants to burn a real CD or to build an USB stick.

As a first time user after 18 minutes without success, I would be rather disappointed and maybe 'Forget this Bulls***'

Peter

Hi Peter, I can confirm the glitch in Qemu (HwPnP) but boots OK to real hardware

Why do you have an issue with ImgBurn auto-starting? It only takes one click to cancel and if an ISO burn is wanted, it is far more trouble to find the ISO and burn it later, assuming the user has burning sw installed. Maybe there should be an option to burn the ISO after build finishes completely and error-less log is confirmed - but this would require some work for a script dev

[JonF]

FWIW I agree 100% with Peter.

[pscEx]

Hi Peter, I can confirm the glitch in Qemu (HwPnP) but boots OK to real hardware

You have to see the 'running Movie':

The user boots into qEmu and has my 'Success'.
He asks here in the forum and you tell him (see your above quote).

That does not help the user. He wants to se his PE in qEmu!

To avoid this, the scripts bringing qEmu to hang, should NOT BE in the factory settings (less scripts selected, as demanded above)

Why do you have an issue with ImgBurn auto-starting? It only takes one click to cancel and if an ISO burn is wanted, it is far more trouble to find the ISO and burn it later, assuming the user has burning sw installed. Maybe there should be an option to burn the ISO after build finishes completely and error-less log is confirmed - but this would require some work for a script dev

The easier way would be to have BurnISO unselected in 'Factory Settings'
As far as I know, EVERY Expert, Standard, or Dummy user is able to select a script if he/she wants to include it into the build.

And what about 'Error-less', when I do not like what I saw in qEmu?
Burning nevertheless?
Wasting a CD if there is one in the burner?
Bringing an error if there is no CD?
...

Peter

BTW: For the above reason in natoveEx_barebone_075 I just moved the 'Burn' to the Tools folder (besides e.g. RegEdit) and made it unselectable.

[amalux]

--
To avoid this, the scripts bringing qEmu to hang, should NOT BE in the factory settings (less scripts selected, as demanded above)

100% agree!

The easier way would be to have BurnISO unselected in 'Factory Settings'
As far as I know, EVERY Expert, Standard, or Dummy user is able to select a script if he/she wants to include it into the build.

And what about 'Error-less', when I do not like what I saw in qEmu?
Burning nevertheless?
Wasting a CD if there is one in the burner?
Bringing an error if there is no CD?

50% agree

I like the option to burn a CD at the end of the build (just an option, no reason to waste a CD or time); believe it or not, newbies might not know how to burn an ISO to CD and this gives them an easy option to do so. If the script is unselected by default, this option is lost and may cause more troubles for newbies. Unless something has changed, ImgBurn should NOT automatically burn a CD if one is in the drive or even give an 'error'; just open and wait for user input. Simply closing ImgBurn moves past this CD burn option without issue, no?

[Lancelot]

Wow

it is really interesting, Peter are you aware that you open 2 new subject in the same 1 topic at post 3. woow. .

as you wish:
subject 1) post 1: subject answered
subject 2) post 3: yep i am aware of hwpnp error, but missed the point, thank you showing out how it will be bad for a new starter. Script changed and updated. (demanding less scripts selected for solution is not the solution for this)
subject 3) post 3: Ingredient of recommended livexp may be discussed, i took notes of your concern to discuss it later. But reminding you sth; we have minimum option for livexp which have much less SELECTED scripts, very small and quickly buildable.
subject 3b) post 3: This special discussion about "ImgBurn auto-starting", i agree with amalux idea about very new users which is in your point of view lower rank than "EVERY Expert, Standard, or Dummy user", i guess micha041 is a good example as he 'reported' your helping reply to him


But mostly, i am very impressed you are talking about +2(+1b) subjects out of the topic reason on post 1, wooooow .

[pscEx]

it is really interesting, Peter are you aware that you open 2 new subject in the same 1 topic at post 3. woow. .

If you look at the title 'factory settings' this can contain many items (scripts)!
What I want to have as final result:
The new user MUST have the possibility to have a success feeling with his first (factory set) build.

Anything else is step #2!

And I'm glad to see that you are on the way trying to realize this idea!

Peter

[Brito]

Regarding ImgBurn, why not adding a simple question box?

Burn ISO image on CD/DVD?

If positive, launch imgburn otherwise finish things up.

--------

We can say that on NativeEx there isn't the need for such feature since it is truly aimed for people that we assume as having some experience and know what they are doing at some extension but for LiveXP users this should indeed remain as default because newbies will be clueless regarding what to do next.

It's a user friendly action.

On VistaPE (factory), it doesn't even run the ISO inside an emulator and I personally find it too time consuming to go fetch the ISO image, add it to the virtualbox emulator and start a virtual machine just to see if I liked it or not.

--------

Regarding the BootSDI script, wouldn't it be possible for this script to avoid starting if no win2003 files are chosen on the script GUI nor the project is using win2003 as source?

If no win2003 files available, display an error message and revert back to "normal" createISO to avoid interrupting the project build.


Would this help to bring a more user friendly project?

[pscEx]

50% agree

I like the option to burn a CD at the end of the build (just an option, no reason to waste a CD or time); believe it or not, newbies might not know how to burn an ISO to CD and this gives them an easy option to do so. If the script is unselected by default, this option is lost and may cause more troubles for newbies. Unless something has changed, ImgBurn should NOT automatically burn a CD if one is in the drive or even give an 'error'; just open and wait for user input. Simply closing ImgBurn moves past this CD burn option without issue, no?

I accept your 50%. Your arguments are good, my arguments are good, too.
Maybe in the future we find a way that we both agre to 90%

Peter

[Lancelot]

Peter,

If you look at the title 'factory settings'

i know, i edit post immediately after, look my previous post.

The new user MUST have the possibility to have a success feeling with his first (factory set) build.

As written in previous post fixed and i am aware of the idea, but all of us are human and can miss things, thanks for others that reminds and helps us.

Nuno,

Regarding ImgBurn, why not adding a simple question box?

We have a pharase, "the way of decision of right logic always the same way". I thought same thing too and will try to add. .

On VistaPE (factory), it doesn't even run the ISO inside an emulator and I personally find it too time consuming to go fetch the ISO image, add it to the virtualbox emulator and start a virtual machine just to see if I liked it or not.

Current qemu on livexp can boot vistape iso files

Regarding the BootSDI script, wouldn't it be possible for this script to avoid starting if no win2003 files are chosen on the script GUI nor the project is using win2003 as source?

You caught me Nuno, , when i wrote this on post 2

This event leads another issue and question in my mind which cause users build till the begining of bootsdi script and fails. Will write next week.

i was thinking for the same solution .

[pscEx]

Regarding ImgBurn, why not adding a simple question box?

Programmatically in a script, no problem.

If 'qemu has been successfully exited' then

'Ask for burning ISO'

But logically there is a problem:
How to pass 'qemu has been successfully exited'?
For WinBuilder qemu could have been successful, if it has been started and came back with an exit code 0 (or some other defined value)

But if in qemu the PE would BSOD or something else, for WinBuilder the exitcode also would be 'successfully started and exited'

I currently do not see a way to solve this.

(BTW: Just ommitted the other possible emulators like e.g. VirtualBox: In VirtualBox there is NO exit code, because by design it cannot be run synchronously)
And when using VirtualBox the Burn would start just after starting VirtualBox.

Peter

Just a crazy idea: The 'emulator' scripts could have a 'System,ONSCRIPTEXIT' which tells the user in a message box the necessary steps to burn a CD or (what not yet is taken into account) to create an USB stick.

[fxscrpt]

@Lancelot

i use the newest snapshot from here.

if 'Disable ACPI' is unchecked in qEMU.Script there is no hwpnp problem.

@Peter

the new VirtualBox 2.1 is very cool. 'unregisterimage disk' works now for vmdk/vhd/vdi images.

Peter
EDIT:

(BTW: Just ommitted the other possible emulators like e.g. VirtualBox: In VirtualBox there is NO exit code, because by design it cannot be run synchronously)
And when using VirtualBox the Burn would start just after starting VirtualBox.

im working on Register Factory and have updated the
VirtualBox part to support VirtualBox version>=2.0 and X64 hosts.
The script also waits for VirtualBox until it exits.
If you want, i can update VirtualBox.script to support the features.

[pscEx]

the new VirtualBox 2.1 is very cool. 'unregisterimage disk' works now for vmdk/vhd/vdi images.

Also if the UID is unknown?
That would make a complete app obsolete, which I only wrote for unregistering 'unknown UID'

Peter

Edit: Sorry, in the first version I wrote GUI. Shoudl be UID

[fxscrpt]

Also if the UID is unknown?
That would make a complete app obsolete, which I only wrote for unregistering 'unknown UID'

Peter

Edit: Sorry, in the first version I wrote GUI. Shoudl be UID

yes

[Brito]

But logically there is a problem:

eheh.. then you'd be complicating what should be simple...

The best possible judge to understand if the build should be considered as good to burn or not should always be the end user and this is the reason why I suggested that the question box asks the user what to do next after running the image on qemu. (It's also the solution easier to code.. )

One question box before imgburn starts should be simple enough for users.

----------

How to pass 'qemu has been successfully exited'?

Eheh..

If I really wanted to solve this question I'd take it in steps.

- Add a scout program to the LiveXP project to run at boot up
- Start qemu with the CD image to boot and would also load an empty floppy disk image (no-bootable)
- The scout program would write it's diagnostic onto a given text file at the floppy image like:

xxyyzz0048
[diagnostic]
result=LiveXP booted good!

- Once qemu stopped running, the script would use FileByteExtract to fetch the given byte signature at the floppy disk image (xxyyzz). First it would get the number of chars to read (on this particular case the message would be sized in 0048 chars from a max of 9999 chars) and second would extract n bytes to get the rest of the message.

- Then it would be easy to use IniRead and off you go with a diagnostic message straight from the belly of the emulator. (same method would work for virtualbox)

- To ensure that no real hardware floppy disk was inadvertently written, one could use a custom label or perhaps a specific tag file that would need to be find before considering the floppy as a safe location to write.

----

Would this help?

[pscEx]

I give up

I only tried to give some suggestions to make LiveXP (factory build) more user friendly.

And now we are trying to link qEmu with ImgBurn hardcoded.

No respect to other emulators like VirtualBox, VMWare, VirtualPC, no rerspect to other burning scripts like CDBurning ...

It could be so easy: Just omit the 'Selected' in ImgBurn in the 'factory' delivery', and let's wait for the first complain

I built a PE and tested it successfully in the emulator.
Now I want to burn a CD.
For me it looks like that ImgBurn can do this task.
Can you explain me, how to activate BurnImg?

I accept bets when the first question will arrive.

Peter

[Brito]

And now we are trying to link qEmu with ImgBurn hardcoded.

This was said just for the fun of it, not to be taken seriously unless you really intend to run a scout program to properly diagnose how the project boots inside the emulator.

It could be so easy: Just omit the 'Selected' in ImgBurn in the 'factory' delivery', and let's wait for the first complain

People won't likely be aware that imgburn feature is implemented as a script let alone complain about it.

We are trying to automate things as much as possible to keep away the changes of missing anything.

How many users tried to burn the .ISO image as a regular file onto a blank CD and then would complain that the CD doesn't boot?

New users might not be aware how to write ISO images and this provides a fail-safe method to allow burning them.

It's important to have this mechanism enabled by default on livexp.

[Lancelot]

fxscrpt:

Thank you

@Lancelot

i use the newest snapshot from here.

if 'Disable ACPI' is unchecked in qEMU.Script there is no hwpnp problem.

Thanks for the newest snapshot, but for current "hwpnp runonce-qemu" problem, only "uncheck disable acpi" is enough for solution, i will enable back the hwpnp runonce option, and "uncheck disable acpi" on qemu


psc

Thank you for all support, but trying to link qEmu with ImgBurn hardcoded is not necessary, i have a more simpler solution in my mind, please dont waste time with that idea.

It could be so easy: Just omit the 'Selected' in ImgBurn in the 'factory' delivery', and let's wait for the first complain

Okey, , lets try this way for a while and see what will happen. (will be in world time 30 minutes )

[pscEx]

It's important to have this mechanism enabled by default on livexp.

As already said: I give up.
I only wanted to make (in my opinion) LiveXP better.
But because it is neither my project nor 'it wouldn't work w/o my suggestions' let me forget my suggestion and close the topic logically.

Just for fun: I remember a printed paper sheet in a very famous and good steak house in USA/MA: 'Not responsible for Well Done'
For less good English speaking people: Your decision has been to get your steak 'well done'. You'll get what you wanted. But then it is outside our responsibility if you do not like it's consistency.

Peter

[Lancelot]

Sorry Peter, boss says no , but i will find try to find a midway that satisfy both boss and you.

[amalux]

--
Just for fun: I remember a printed paper sheet in a very famous and good steak house in USA/MA: 'Not responsible for Well Done'
For less good English speaking people: Your decision has been to get your steak 'well done'. You'll get what you wanted. But then it is outside our responsibility if you do not like it's consistency.

Peter

Yes but they also warn about 'too rare'!

-- slow response because I just fought off and killed the dreaded 'Resycler - too many secrets...' virus which propagated to all 8 partitions, bypassing all av and fw blocks. Actually, pretty easy to get rid of now that I know the 'secret'

[MedEvil]

@Lancelot

Can't wait to see the midway between:
- enabled image burn and user can click no
- disabled image burn and user can click run


@Nuno
Absolutely agree with you. No need for anything complicated, just ask the user. Also liked your idea about the fallback.

[Lancelot]

MedEvil

you will see my friend, you will see