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turning normal USB pendrive into a faked bootable USB-CDROM


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#1 mr_

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:07 PM

I found an interesting discussion http://portableapps.com/node/16594 (about how to abuse an U3 device as bootable USB-CDROM emulator) and a link to a guide how to turn a normal non-U3 pendrive into a one with CD partition perhaps bootable http://blog.usboffice.kr/?p=146 (use with care, you can destroy your whole device)

USBDeview is also an excellent tool if you need some informations so you can find the correct mass production tools.

Unfortunately the device was neither bootable by USB-CDROM for me and also in DOS I've did try Bart's CD-ROM driver disk and all DOS USB drivers and couldn't find this fakes USB-CDROM, only in Windows seen as faked CD.

I would like to know if someone had more success then me with booting the faked USB-CDROM.

#2 Lancelot

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:31 PM

I havent test as i dont have a u3 device, but check here :) :
http://www.msfn.org/...sy-t121502.html

#3 mr_

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:09 PM

You missed my piont:
possible also for non-U3 devices.

#4 Lancelot

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:22 PM

yes mr_ ,
sorry for wrong writing of me
http://blog.usboffice.kr/?p=146 have vendor list that should be used
sadly my usb stick is a very regular one with vendorid: 04b4
i only wanted to share the topic i found before.
And thank you for these useful links

#5 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:29 AM

Sure, it is possible also for some of the non U3 it all depends on the Mass Production Tool, and on the actual chip inside the stick.

FYI:
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=125138

Besides the known (and difficult to access/read/understand) Chinese links, there is also this (a bit easier) Russian site:
http://flashboot.ru/...php?name=iflash

Something you may want to try (maybe it works with the USB CD) :) is BCDL:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=18650

jaclaz

#6 mr_

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 02:09 PM

Something you may want to try (maybe it works with the USB CD) :) is BCDL:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=18650

You seam to be interested in DOS USB drivers, see the DOS wiki http://www.drdos.org....php?n=Main.USB

#7 was_jaclaz

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 03:11 PM

You seam to be interested in DOS USB drivers, see the DOS wiki http://www.drdos.org....php?n=Main.USB


Thanks :), but most of that info needs updating.

We have more recent info, here, on 911cd and msfn.org.

Maybe, since you are "wiki willing" I could give you my links and you could put together a wiki page (or add the info to that one) with this info. :(

jaclaz

P.S.: I cannot reply to your PM since your inbox is full, however, here it is:

Yep, RE-read this:
http://www.911cd.net...o...650&start=4

Reanimatolog has vanished from the scene....:(



#8 mr_

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 04:40 PM

I wasn't able to boot this faked CD-ROM anywhere.

But I think there are two different kinds of faked CD-ROM. "Real" faked CD-ROM and "need Windows to exists faked CD-ROM", mine seams the latter.

The faked CD-ROM is not seen in Linux, neither any DOS CD-ROM driver works and also neither any DOS USB CD-ROM driver works.

Sounds this plausible?

Thanks :), but most of that info needs updating.


We have more recent info, here, on 911cd and msfn.org.

Well, it's hard to find if you are not in your business so long. :(

Maybe, since you are "wiki willing" I could give you my links and you could put together a wiki page (or add the info to that one) with this info. :(

You can give it to me and I will see.

Well, the drdos.org wiki is imho no good software, I prefer mediawiki.

It's just questionable which wiki to use. drdos.org isn't visited much, neither grub4dos wiki is (and grub4dos related), I think a wiki would be cool on bootland.

I also don't like wiki because it's "cool", it's practical. In forum old postings are lost after a while and threads blow up with questions and discussions and such, no one is allowed to edit the post of another due to outdated or wrong. In a wiki you have can create a very nice overview of informations but the best reason is the teamwork effect.

#9 was_jaclaz

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:35 PM

I wasn't able to boot this faked CD-ROM anywhere.

But I think there are two different kinds of faked CD-ROM. "Real" faked CD-ROM and "need Windows to exists faked CD-ROM", mine seams the latter.

The faked CD-ROM is not seen in Linux, neither any DOS CD-ROM driver works and also neither any DOS USB CD-ROM driver works.

Sounds this plausible?

Possible, yes. :)
Plausible, NO. :(
At least on the one stick where I could test the feature, the stick was seen by BIOS as a bootable CD device.

It is possible that the problem is simply in the BIOS of your machine(s), like many of the reported problems with USB booting.

On the other hand it is VERY plausible :( that no DOS drivers can detect it, and as well that the particular stick you used has not this feature (and thus it is a "need Windows" one :))

However, in order to be bootable, a stick needs NO drivers (DOS, Windows or Linux) it needs to be supported by BIOS. (or by a USB BIOS-like stack, like PLoP).
Once the real mode part of the OS (the whole OS for DOS) has booted, THEN an OS specific driver may be needed.



About links, here :):
The three "must have"
http://johnson.tmfc....dos/usbdrv.html
http://vivil.free.fr/usbdosboot/
http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/

Additional info/ideas/hints:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=21053
http://www.boot-land...?...=4260&st=10
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=20310
http://www.msfn.org/..._98_t99220.html
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=126444
http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=46581
http://www.mdgx.com/files/USBASPI.TXT
http://www.mdgx.com/files/USBASPI.EXE

:)

jaclaz

#10 ktp

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 06:07 PM

Fantastic ! I want to report that it works flawlessly for me with a Corsair Voyager GT (8 GB). This device is mentioned as working in the referenced article.

The BIOS see it as two USB devices of same vendor. When I select the first USB device, it is a fake CD as expected. And under XP, the faked CD is recognized too without problem.

Next wish list would be to be able to build multiple fake CD on the same key ! This way you can carry on the same key lot of bootable CDs (XP install, Vista install, Linux etc...). A dream that most people would like to get with grub4dos and iso emulation (storing several iso images on the same key and selectively boot them. But we know that this is currently technically impossible since it depends on the iso (real/protected mode switch).

Edit: well first I think about the iso like XP/Vista or Linux, but it could be a multibootable DVD iso containing bcdw ! So this gives way to lot of possibilities (XP install, BartPE/VistaPE, DOS images...).

#11 ktp

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 10:39 AM

Another dream : since the fake CD is possible, why not a fake floppy ? This way on the same USB key we can have a fake floppy, a fake CD and a real USB disk.

This fake floppy would solve multiple problems, among them installing XP requiring pressing F6 to load additonal drivers, or booting from floppy.

By the way how can I "imaged" my whole USB key with fake CD? Because all drive image utilities only see the hard disk part of the key, not the fake CD part.

#12 mr_

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 03:16 PM

My item on the wish list is to get this CD-ROM / FDD / ZIP - emulation features not only for USB flash drives, but also for USB HDD's. :cheers:

Fantastic ! I want to report that it works flawlessly for me with a Corsair Voyager GT (8 GB). This device is mentioned as working in the referenced article.

Thanks for the report, I am glad it worked for you.

Next wish list would be to be able to build multiple fake CD on the same key !

Agreed.

Another dream : since the fake CD is possible, why not a fake floppy ? This way on the same USB key we can have a fake floppy, a fake CD and a real USB disk.

- faked floppy exists
- faked ZIP exists

I am glad someone else like me is seeing the point and the possibility in this technique. See
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4977

This fake floppy would solve multiple problems, among them installing XP requiring pressing F6 to load additonal drivers, or booting from floppy.

This works for legacy FDD.

Does anyone know if XP setups accepts also USB FDD for F6 driver disk?

By the way how can I "imaged" my whole USB key with fake CD? Because all drive image utilities only see the hard disk part of the key, not the fake CD part.

This is like asking "how can I image my HDD and my CD-ROM at the same time? Probable this can not work.

#13 ktp

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 05:46 AM

This is like asking "how can I image my HDD and my CD-ROM at the same time? Probable this can not work.


Let say the USB key has 500 cylinders, and 10 cylinders are used by the fake CD part. I would like to be able to "image" the whole 500 cylinders of the physical USB key.

#14 was_jaclaz

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 10:53 AM

Let say the USB key has 500 cylinders, and 10 cylinders are used by the fake CD part. I would like to be able to "image" the whole 500 cylinders of the physical USB key.


Once properly configured, what normally is a single device is "presented" to BIOS and OS as a two LUN ones, a CD-like and a HD-like.

But you are missing a point.

What you normally see as a hd-like device with (say) a geometry of nx255x63 is ONLY the representation that the controller inside the stick "fakes" when anything (BIOS or OS) interrogates it.

There is NO actual correspondence between what is seen from the outside and what actually happens inside.

This apllies as well to the CD-like part.

It is perfectly possible that the "fake CD" uses a part of the stick that it is at the beginning, at the end or anywhere in the middle as well as several "sequences of blocks" joined together only virtually.

You should be able to access the LUN corresponding to the CD and backup it's contents, but of course you cannot use on a CD-like device the same tools/methods that you would use on a HD-Like device, most probably a "dd-like" tool like dsfo/dsfi can work at volume level, but cannot say.

Does anyone know if XP setups accepts also USB FDD for F6 driver disk?

Yes, sure, with a few little fixes :
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3431
http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=82711
but it can also be a "virtual" grub4dos one:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=20543

jaclaz

#15 foxsam

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 02:40 AM

is there any info on setting up a different usb not those mentioned? I have a few kingston 0951 controller based. whereshould I start looking?

#16 was_jaclaz

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 11:36 AM

is there any info on setting up a different usb not those mentioned? I have a few kingston 0951 controller based. whereshould I start looking?


Here:
http://www.flashboot...php?name=iflash

And here:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4661

jaclaz

#17 foxsam

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 07:52 PM

I originally checked the .ru one and (if I understood what I was doing) dl the program but it said there was no flash drive plugged in.

the second post was new but I still could not figure out what to do with it. I understood that I should try chipgenius but it seems that there is a 404 error on that link. its the only part that was not gibberish (404). btw I did not install the chinese languagepacks.
I was successful in finding an older ver 2.64 of chip genius.

#18 was_jaclaz

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 10:01 AM

I am not familiar with that kingston "0951", it is possible:
1) that the particular controller used does NOT provide a "CD-ROM" LUN
2) that the manufacturer's tool needs to be modified to recognize the "0951" or PID

Basically the original CHIP manufacturer may use a certain PID/VID and it's manufacturer tool is hardcoded to use that VID/PID, then the manufacturer provides to kingston a tool to change VID/PID and a "kingston custom" manufacturer tool hardcoded to recognize the new PID/VID given by kingston.

About chipgenius, you should read the whole thread, instead of clicking on the first link you find, this one works:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=4661&st=6

Use google translate:
http://translate.goo...t...en&ie=UTF-8

Current version is 2.70, use latest.

You will need extensive use of google translate, lots of fantasy, a bit of luck, extensive reading and notwithstanding all these, there is still a risk that you won't be able to find the "right tool" or to use it "properly", there is even a (minor, but possible) risk of simply "messing" with the stick in a way that it won't work anymore.


jaclaz

#19 rajindia

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:27 PM

fake cd rom detected in bios but not booting.

detected fine in windows could see the iso contents in fake cdrom.

corsair 8gb voyager.

#20 was_jaclaz

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:50 PM

fake cd rom detected in bios but not booting.

detected fine in windows could see the iso contents in fake cdrom.

corsair 8gb voyager.


And the question is? :cheers: B)

Are you positive that the .iso image is a bootable one?

Isn't that a U3 drive?
http://www.msfn.org/...sy-t121502.html

jaclaz

#21 jor77

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:28 PM

Hello!
I have a problem of booting NativeEx from such USB-CDROM.
When booting it fails whith BSOD (Stop 0x000007b). But when i burn real CD - it boots and work correctly.
Please, help! What I have to do, so I could boot NativeEx from Faked USB CD-ROM?

#22 was_jaclaz

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 07:18 PM

Hello!
I have a problem of booting NativeEx from such USB-CDROM.
When booting it fails whith BSOD (Stop 0x000007b). But when i burn real CD - it boots and work correctly.
Please, help! What I have to do, so I could boot NativeEx from Faked USB CD-ROM?


Maybe you need USB support added? :poke:

jaclaz

#23 jor77

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:01 PM

Maybe you need USB support added? :poke:


Maybe... But I don't know how to do this correctly. All I tried - failed in the same way




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