Jump to content











Photo
- - - - -

The new design


  • Please log in to reply
87 replies to this topic

#26 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:10 PM

Nuno,

MichaelZ'S font problem will be solved when server send "noncleartyped" fonts :)
which will eventually solve my eyes glitching too :(

#27 MichaelZ

MichaelZ

    Frequent Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 333 posts
  • Location:Braunschweig, Germany
  •  
    Germany

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:22 PM

Does the server send fonts ???
In css_38.css I have seen that Myriad shall be used in quite a few places. Probably not the best font?

Many Greetings
MichaelZ

#28 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:28 PM

MichaelZ

sorry for my bad english, i mean this:
font info sent by server have cleartype itsself (maybe it is font nature as you pointed out)
when you cleartype a cleartyped font, you get the result you showed in picture.

You want to cleartype normal fonts with your hostos (or browser) to read better.
I dont want to have cleartype,
both of us solution is one :)

#29 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10545 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:30 PM

Is there anything I can do to get a readable Boot-Land forum again?


You've already helped by posting the screenshot.

Now I would need you to some additional tests with fonts (without cleartype) to find the name of the font that is correctly displayed on your machine.

There is a good website to try (thousands of) fonts directly, look here: http://www.1001fonts.com/

Maybe other members can also help so that we can find a font that works good on all possible configurations.

:)


--------------------------------------

But I cannot become familar with the fact that I'm physically not able to read the contents just 'in a view'. I have to read char by char, like a pupil in the first class.

Let's work the details and try out new color combinations until the site is good for everyone.


Why such 'soft' colors rather than 'solid' ones?

To improve the site, we can make things look a lot better if you don't like them. Let's do some testings during the next days.


Why 'small' letters are displayed acceptable, 'wider' letters like a 'w' only displayed as a greyed shadow?

It might be a font issue but I'm not sure since conditions may vary from machine to machine, would you please post a screenshot to evaluate this issue.

You can also look on the end of this topic to see what is possible to be tested, I really appreciate the feedback from as many members as possible and we'll take care of one detail at time.


-------

Reasons to change the visual:

There is no excuse to say that things aren't perfect with web2.0 colors, trends or whatever website.

Many might indeed say that we'd be better of with the safe and older design but I simply believe that boot-land.net deserves to be different and stand out from the crowd.

Computer related forums that I often visit pretty much look the same thing, all use the same IPB software, all use the same themes, all have nearly the same forum sections. It's disappointing to see slow progress in the way how forums evolve.

Look on these examples to get an idea:
http://neowin.net/forum/
http://msfn.org/board/
http://www.911cd.net/forums/
http://www.ubcd4win.com/forum/

The last two forums on the list are specifically related to boot disks and they look exactly the same, boot-land.net is all about being original from the rest and live on the cutting edge.. :(

It gives a lot of work to be different but I'm available to work with all members to solve these issues and bring our site to a whole new level in the way how discussions take place.

Thank you! :(

#30 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12707 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:59 PM

Nuno!

I admire your work and simultaniously regret you!

After doing the transfer in a short time very gracefully, you now have to fight, maybe for a multiple of the transfer time, with / against the user interface.

Unfortunatelly this is technically less important, but 'logically' the main issue! :)
And unfortunatelly^2 a real issue for me and some other users.

Let's see whether you are the first to make the GUI 'ALL accepted' or I provide my 'WB runs also in Vista and 64 bit'. :(

Unfortunatelly your chances are better ...

Peter

BTW: The first you MUST change is: Do not appear emoticons overwriting the currenbt text!

#31 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:04 PM

Nuno

Font: Calibri causes this reading issues, maybe Arial is better like in good old days :)

#32 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:37 PM

Many might indeed say that we'd be better of with the safe and older design but I simply believe that boot-land.net deserves to be different and stand out from the crowd.

Let's get this point STRAIGHT, and NOW:
boot-land.net ALREADY stands out from the crowd due to:
  • quality of posts/topics
  • general friendliness among members
  • exceptional responsiveness, open mindedness and generosity of the Owner

:)

Nuno

Font: Calibri causes this reading issues, maybe Arial is better like in good old days :(


Just for the record and FYI from researches the two most readable fonts, have been found to be:
http://www.msfn.org/...opic=99265&st=4
Verdana (Sans Serif)
Georgia (Serif)

Calibri is an attempt:
http://en.wikipedia..../Calibri_(font)
to somehow fix the stupid thing made years before (A Serif font for Word and a Sans Serif font for Excel) and unify the look of Office documents.

Of course it is even worse, as a character on screen is better readable if Sans Serif, whilst on paper (when printed) a Serif one gives better readability.

The cleartype nature of the font creates more problems than advantages, expecially with small sizes.

Some of the reasons why Verdana and Georgia are still the best:
http://www.will-harr...ana-georgia.htm

jaclaz

#33 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:47 PM

Calibri is an attempt:
http://en.wikipedia..../Calibri_(font)
to somehow fix the stupid thing made years before (A Serif font for Word and a Sans Serif font for Excel) and unify the look of Office documents.

Of course it is even worse, as a character on screen is better readable if Sans Serif, whilst on paper (when printed) a Serif one gives better readability.

The cleartype nature of the font creates more problems than advantages, expecially with small sizes.


This briefly explains the font issue, Thank you jaclaz

Some of the reasons why Verdana and Georgia are still the best:
http://www.will-harr...ana-georgia.htm


My vote is to Georgia :)

#34 MichaelZ

MichaelZ

    Frequent Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 333 posts
  • Location:Braunschweig, Germany
  •  
    Germany

Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:40 PM

I just wanted to post two screenshots:
Fonts (ClearType disabled)
Fonts (ClearType enabled)

BUT IT IS NOT NECESSARY !!!!!!!!!!!

Just this second the font changed and one can read the forum again :) :) :( :)

I would have voted for Verdana/Georgia. Probably as replacement for Linux/MacOS-X Arial and Times New Roman could be set.

Many Thanks :( :( :) :(
Many Greetings
MichaelZ

#35 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:43 PM

Sharing feelings of MichaelZ
:)

#36 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10545 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:43 PM

Good news then!

I've just changed the text on the topics, didn't the change the text on the other elements.

Is it more readable now?

Is the size appropriate?

:)

#37 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:02 PM

Is it more readable now?

YESSSSSSSSSSS

Is the size appropriate?

no problem for me (a bit big, but i have no problem with that :) , solving horizontal problem will overcome this and would be better for the ones who have bad eyes)

#38 MichaelZ

MichaelZ

    Frequent Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 333 posts
  • Location:Braunschweig, Germany
  •  
    Germany

Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:09 PM

Hi Nuno,

I think font size is OK. For many people a serif font might be very unfamiliar. Personally I think they are better readable than sansserif fonts. On the other hand I think sansserif fonts could very well be used as headline in forum overview etc.

Could the color scheme be modified a little so different posts in a thread could be easier distinguished. Present I consider it quite difficult when one scrolls down in a thread to comprehend the different posts, quotes, code blocks etc. Personally I think that was much easier in the old style, the optics of the different items was so different.

Many Greetings
MichaelZ

#39 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12707 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:16 PM

To the previous posts: Looks a bit better now!

But I have a new concern:

In a post I wrote something like <apostrophe><zero><apostrophe>
And it appears like <apostrophe><lower case o><apostrophe>

Edit and retype did not change anything

Peter

#40 homes32

homes32

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1030 posts
  • Location:Minnesota
  •  
    United States

Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:53 PM

a big thanks out to Nuno. few board admins would handle this transition as gracefully as he is. I have never seen anyone who got the UI perfect on the 1st try, but if we keep up this good work I have no doubt it will kick @$$.

the font and text color changes have made a huge difference in readability, although I still think that the user info above the posts makes everything more cluttered. if the nav bar on the right was narrowed down and the padding on each edge reduced there should be plenty of room on the left side without sacrificing posting space.

#41 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10545 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:55 PM

In a post I wrote something like <apostrophe><zero><apostrophe>
And it appears like <apostrophe><lower case o><apostrophe>


It's by design of the font.

"0" and "o" or "O" still look slightly different but confusing out of this context.

Here in Portugal it's usual to draw a slash / over the 0 to mark it as zero and not be confused as o.

This comes from the Georgia font, should we try another one? :)

#42 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Frequent Member

  • .script developer
  • 5013 posts
  • Location:Turkiye/Izmir
  • Interests:*Mechanical stuff and Physics,
    *LiveXP, BartPE, SherpyaXPE,
    *Basketball and Looong Walking,
    *Buying outwear for my girlf (Reason: Girls are stupid about buying bad stuff to make themselves uglier :))
    *Girls (Lyric: Girl,...., You will be a womann, Soon)
    *Answering questions for "Meaning of life",
    *Helping people,

    Kung with LiveXP, Fu with Peter :)
  •  
    Turkey

Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:13 PM

This comes from the Georgia font, should we try another one? :)


Yes :( , and also smaller with smaller fontsize please, after using for a while font size is very disturbing

#43 JonF

JonF

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1185 posts
  • Location:Boston, MA
  •  
    United States

Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:47 PM

The choice of light gray on transparent for the drop-downs in the post edit window seems to be a poor one, since the surround is also light gray. Can you see the fonts drop-down?:

Posted Image
Opera 9.62 on Vista on an LCD.

#44 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 7771 posts

Posted 17 December 2008 - 05:57 PM

Sorry Nuno, but i don't like the new design.
I don't even want to talk about the less than optimal choice of low contrast colors.

The things that bother me the most are the fancy new features, that make this forum look unique. It's a royal pain in the ass, if things are not where they are in any other forum, not to mention that there is a reason, why things are always at the same place. It's because, it's the logical place!

English is read from left to right, thus we expect the information of a higher hirarchy to be on the left not on the right.
Try coding a treeview which opens to the left instead of the right and you will see how wrong it feels.

But the absolutely worst thing, that makes the forum almost unreadable to me, is the mixture of post header and post body in the same column.
If you don't change anything else, please change at least that!

:)

#45 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:56 PM

The whole point is that from the "new, better, improved" skin it seems like there is NO way to change the skin to the "default, usual, NOT_needing_ANY_improvement" one.

Hint :):
clicky here:
http://www.boot-land...?...04&cal_id=0

From the default skin you can change to any skin you like (or dislike) but if you choose the new WEB 2.0 one it seems like there is no going back. :(

Codes:
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=22 IPB default <-"default, usual, NOT_needing_ANY_improvement" skin
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=27 Webber
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=30 Nexus
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=37 PDA skin (Import)
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=34 Webber (Import)
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=35 IPB Board Pro
hxxp://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&setskin=1&skinid=38 Web 2.0 <-this is the "new, better, improved" skin


jaclaz

#46 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12707 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:21 PM

Just an addition to Jaclaz's post

I recently wrote

...If you have x86 or x32 the use ...

There are some numbers to be displayed.

And how look they?

For me: TERRIBLE

Are we here a club of artists and painters, or do we want to have some technical solutions for people needing them.

And for technical solutions is the (maybe black and white) content important, not the acceptance of 'That looks nice' crying people (who tomorrow will cry 'Ugly, that's from yesterday!')

Peter

#47 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10545 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:59 PM

As I've mentioned before, the whole site is a work in progress and user feedback has only began 2 days ago.

Many more things will change and be adapted as time moves forward.

Please be patient and help by providing some feedback regarding how it looks on your browsers and I'll try to work the reported issues.

------------

At the moment I'm trying to solve the attachments system and that's the reason why no visual changes were made today.

(except perhaps changing the topic text font to verdana (anyone noticed?) but Peter has already replied that it looked the same as Georgia, any other font to try out? :( )

Thanks! :)

#48 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:13 PM

Are we here a club of artists and painters, or do we want to have some technical solutions for people needing them.

And for technical solutions is the (maybe black and white) content important, not the acceptance of 'That looks nice' crying people (who tomorrow will cry 'Ugly, that's from yesterday!')


We are clearly a club of whiners. :(

Just set the default skin and be done with it, as I do. :)

Let the lads have fun experimenting, and let us "old things" go on as before.....:)

(you might notice how this approach slightly difffers form the one that goes "You have to use this, as it is new, and it is better", which reminds me of your friend Billy)

@Nuno
In other words, I find I do need young minds to bring innovations, but I don't particularly like innovations being forced upon me. :(

jaclaz

#49 Nuno Brito

Nuno Brito

    Platinum Member

  • .script developer
  • 10545 posts
  • Location:boot.wim
  • Interests:I'm just a quiet simple person with a very quiet simple life living one day at a time..
  •  
    European Union

Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:24 PM

but I don't particularly like innovations being forced upon me.


Nobody likes that nor it was my intention. If you and more members also prefer to use the other skin then I will also work to make it available and updated but please give me some time as it's being hard to manage all these things at the same time..

:)

#50 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:28 PM

then I will also work to make it available and updated


NO, I already have available what I want, the PLAIN, GOOD, OLD DEFAULT IPB skin, please:
  • DO NOT touch it
  • DO NOT update it
  • LEAVE it as is

Feel free to change, update, do whatever you want to the other ones, but leave the DEFAULT one as is, as it has been, as it was and as it should be for the next say 100 years.
(we dinosaurs have a diferent way of perceiving time passing....)

jaclaz




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users