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Font issue (XP/W2k3 based builds)


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#1 MedEvil

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 07:02 PM

This is the new topic for the font issue discussed here: Live XP minor findings & addings for contribution

Facts so far:
- Tools from http://jp-bridge.com/en/dlltoys/ show a font related problem in nativeEx based builds. Despite the fact that all fonts are available, the needed font is not used/found.
- this problem does not exist in BartPE
- Acording to Lancelot the issue can be patched away by using autokeyboard script and autolocalization scrip

:cheers:

#2 Lancelot

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 07:32 PM

- Acording to Lancelot the issue can be patched away by using autokeyboard script and autolocalization scrip

WRONG
i never use autolocalization script :cheers:
and
i dont know if using autokeyboard + autlocalization scripts works as i dont test with 32bit hostos
i only ask medevil to test !?! in my previos post !?! and asked medevil to write the result, i never wrote it is a working solution.

this is the true version:
- using a manual script instead of autolocalization script, as described before in my post issue is temporarly fixed

for a fast trial
--disable autolocalisation and autokeyboard
--try using my manual script http://lancelot.winb...Eng-Font_TR.rar
you will see all fonts runing
--Posted Image

also issue descibed before by me as a font issue with ie&opera not showing turkish fonts correctly post 243

following posts puts a regular smile in my face. :cheers:

i dont understand how opening a new topic helps!, anyway I hope my findings and correction helps for solution

Thanks again to dera

#3 pscEx

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:16 PM

Just to encrease the data collection:

Here is really something wrong.

For a different topic I made a picoXP clone using nativeEx_barebone_075 and latest nightly.

Result:

The cmd window caption shows graphical symbols. The Marlett font seems to be absent, in spite it is in the PE (or at least copied, following the log (???))

Peter

#4 pscEx

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:24 PM

- using a manual script instead of autolocalization script, as described before in my post issue is temporarly fixed

I think, I'm becoming crasy!
Why is it not possible to tell the difference between the original and the manual script here? :cheers:
Why I should download the 'manual script' and find the differences by myself?

The difference is known at least to Lancelot

If I'm not supported with the necessary and well known data, the issue may wait until I have more time.

Peter

#5 MedEvil

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:57 PM

Where the §$%& is my post?
I saw it! It was right under Lancelots! :cheers: :cheers:

@Lancelot
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

@Peter
Ran first test, the problem seems to be related to the .nls files.
When i use just the registry entries, the problem persists.
together with the coping of the .nls files it works.

Will now run another test without the registry entries.

:cheers:

#6 pscEx

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:11 PM

Where the §$%& is my post?
I saw it! It was right under Lancelots! :cheers: :cheers:
Ran first test, the problem seems to be related to the .nls files.
When i use just the registry entries, the problem persists.
together with the coping of the .nls files it works.

The server likes to play around with us!
My post #2 has been a direct answer to your post #1, and it appeared one hour later.

nls is a good hint, thanks.
I remember some changes I made in HoJoPE.

If Lancelot prefers to describe facts rather than cloning the Oracle of Delphi, maybe we come to a quick solution.

Peter

#7 pscEx

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:14 PM

i dont understand how opening a new topic helps!, anyway I hope my findings and correction helps for solution

It is always more successfull to work on different issues step by step than merging tenths of issues in hundreds of posts.

Peter

#8 MedEvil

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:21 PM

No good news.
Both parts are needed to squash this bug.
The .nls files need to be copied and the registry entries need to be made. Just one of them won't do the trick.
Which means unfortunately, that only someone (you) who has some idea about the interactions between the two, will be able to tell the needed from the not needed and how to generalize the fix.

:cheers:

#9 pscEx

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:26 PM

No good news.
Both parts are needed to squash this bug.
The .nls files need to be copied and the registry entries need to be made. Just one of them won't do the trick.
Which means unfortunately, that only someone (you) who has some idea about the interactions between the two, will be able to tell the needed from the not needed and how to generalize the fix.

:cheers:

Let's postpone until tomorrow.

As to be seen at a different topic, you and me are now the only users working on this issue.

And as I remember the past, as a team we always have been successful.

Peter

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:59 PM

Some further news.

- Autolocalize.script and autokeyboard.script do nothing to help this issue (just in case this wasn't clear)
- Despite the title, this is not a font issue. Once Deras/Lancelots patch is in place, it works even without the essential fonts.

From the contents of Lancelots script, i'd say it's a codepage problem and if 'we' :cheers: would change the registry entries of the script to reflect the the position of the .nls files in a nativeEx. Registry entries should be all that's needed.

:cheers:

#11 fxscrpt

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:53 AM

Some further news.

- Autolocalize.script and autokeyboard.script do nothing to help this issue (just in case this wasn't clear)
- Despite the title, this is not a font issue. Once Deras/Lancelots patch is in place, it works even without the essential fonts.

From the contents of Lancelots script, i'd say it's a codepage problem and if 'we' :cheers: would change the registry entries of the script to reflect the the position of the .nls files in a nativeEx. Registry entries should be all that's needed.

:cheers:

Medevil,

the missing file is c_932.nls and
RegWrite,HKLM,0x1,"WB-Setup\ControlSet001\Control\Nls\CodePage","932","c_932.nls"


And as I remember the past, as a team we always have been successful.

Peter

@Peter
you are not alone :cheers: but i'm not so often in the forum because of the RegFactory project. (and it works...... :cheers: )

:cheers:

#12 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:07 AM

the missing file is c_932.nls and
RegWrite,HKLM,0x1,"WB-Setup\ControlSet001\Control\Nls\CodePage","932","c_932.nls"

If that helps, here again is an occurrence of :cheers:
932 is used and only used in Japanese!

Peter

#13 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:22 PM

Maybe :cheers: these seemingly unrelated thingies are useful:
http://forums.techgu...-nls-files.html
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=17380

Particularly, cworks lists c_932.nls as a needed file:
http://www.911cd.net...o...=17380&st=5

And the "empty" values right-click delay I have seen (and fixed) a few times (on "real" XP).

jaclaz

#14 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:54 PM

I did some studies today.

And the result seems to be that Billy the Door inserted some traps for bad boys like me who thry to build their own PE.

Sample: The 932 nls. Following the HIVES*.inf, it is nowhere else necessary than in Japanese systems.
And therefore there is NOWHERE any hint for HoJoPE to use it.

But as now known, under some circumstances (which cannot be explained exactly right now) this seems to be necessary also for non Japanese PEs.

Suggestion or 'inofficial poll':

The Hives factory gets a check box option, whether
  • Use fonts and nls as provided for your locale (recommended)
  • Use ALL fonts and nls (needs additional ??? of space)
@My old friend Phox: I did not 'see' you for a long time, but I'm sure that you now get some headache if you read this :cheers:
I'll use the 'correct' old way as pre selected standard in delivery :cheers:

Peter

#15 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:59 PM

The Hives factory gets a check box option, whether

  • Use fonts and nls as provided for your locale (recommended)
  • Use ALL fonts and nls (needs additional ??? of space)


Can't we have a third choice?
Like:
  • Use fonts and nls as provided for your locale (recommended)
  • Add also a few additional fonts and nls that some apps may require (needs additional ??? of space)
  • Use ALL fonts and nls (needs additional ??? of space)

It would seem to me a bit less "binary" and allowing for more shades of gray.....:cheers:

jaclaz

#16 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:22 PM

Can't we have a third choice?
Like:

  • Use fonts and nls as provided for your locale (recommended)
  • Add also a few additional fonts and nls that some apps may require (needs additional ??? of space)
  • Use ALL fonts and nls (needs additional ??? of space)

It would seem to me a bit less "binary" and allowing for more shades of gray..... :cheers:

jaclaz

Theoretically you are right.
But practically you are wrong.

HoJoPE is one of the core functions of nativeEx based projects, and delivers 'fundamental information' to the final PE.

Here a choice like 'some' is critical, because tomorrow comes an app needing one more 'some' etc. ...

For me, my suggestion is a compromise I do not like.
HoJoPE should deliver ALL language dependent information defined in the HIVES*.inf and some other source CD places.
And whenever an app needs more, the app script is responsible to act and copy the needed information into the PE.

But unfortunatelly a lot of people confound 'project' with 'nativeEx core'.

And that is the reason that I suggestet the 'forget it' solution.

Peter

#17 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:44 PM

Here a choice like 'some' is critical, because tomorrow comes an app needing one more 'some' etc. ...

Well, as often happens we have a different view on things :cheers:.
I cannot see the problem in having the "some" as an ADDITION to "few" and "all" choices.

As I see it, when "tomorrow comes" EITHER:
  • the "some" won't be enough and the "all" will be needed
  • the "some" will become "some more" to take into account the new found app/thingie that doesn't work with the previous "some"

Till then there is no reason to "force" people to have a bigger build in order to keep compatibility with "everything" just because a tiny app fails to comply with the "reduced set".

Though as you might now I like to count EVERY single byte, I would like to have an estimate about the (???) size, however, if the increase with the "all" selected is really trivial the "two" choices may be acceptable, but still I see the whole point of the Winbuilder projects as being modular with the "finest possible granularity" exactly as opposed to an "everything or nothing" approach.

Courtesy of Medevil :cheers: :
[German]
Lieber den Spatz in der Hand als die Taube auf dem Dach.
[\German]

:cheers:

jaclaz

#18 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:28 PM

I cannot see the problem in having the "some" as an ADDITION to "few" and "all" choices.

As I see it, when "tomorrow comes" EITHER:

  • the "some" won't be enough and the "all" will be needed
  • the "some" will become "some more" to take into account the new found app/thingie that doesn't work with the previous "some"

You mean something like this
NLS.gif
with a hardcoded 'some'?
No problem
(But as a programmer I have the feeling to fullfill some marketing ideas which are ... :cheers: )

Peter

BTW: to hardcode the 'some' I need suggestions here.
Please script lines only, no links or similar!

#19 MedEvil

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:52 PM

First i would really like to thank fxscrpt, for stealing my job for this evening. :cheers:

Second, the min and all setting would be fine by me. How many addition MB would 'all' mean?

'Some' could mean locale + .nls which 'behave' atypical and are needed while not mentioned explicitly.
Are there other .nls than c_932.nls, which are not listed while being needed?

:cheers:

#20 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:59 PM

First i would really like to thank fxscrpt, for stealing my job for this evening. :cheers:

Second, the min and all setting would be fine by me. How many addition MB would 'all' mean?

'Some' could mean locale + .nls which 'behave' atypical and are needed while not mentioned explicitly.
Are there other .nls than c_932.nls, which are not listed while being needed?

:cheers:

Tomorrow I can tell more about the additional space 'all' needs.
As you understand, for 'some' I'm collecting responses.
Maybe I get one, maybe I get two, maybe a miracle happens and I get three ...

Peter

#21 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:01 PM

You mean something like this
with a hardcoded 'some'?


Yep. :cheers:

If I am allowed to "edit " the text (and there is space enough in the GUI), I would suggest:
Only as the minimum theoretically necessary for your source CD's language
The above + Add some usually used items needed by a few "international" apps
All provided by source CD (max compatibility=bigger build size)

:cheers:

jaclaz

#22 Galapo

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:02 PM

Instead of adding c_932.nls + registry entry in HoJoPE for non-Japanese systems, why can't we let it be an option on lacaleAdditions script? Isn't this sort of thing what that script was created for? This way HoJoPE stays minimal, only building from source info, but c_932.nls can still be added if necessary.

Regards,
Galapo.

#23 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:09 PM

Instead of adding c_932.nls + registry entry in HoJoPE for non-Japanese systems, why can't we let it be an option on lacaleAdditions script? Isn't this sort of thing what that script was created for? This way HoJoPE stays minimal, only building from source info, but c_932.nls can still be added if necessary.

Regards,
Galapo.

:cheers:
This was the response I hoped to get!

With a small difference: I have not been fixed on lacaleAdditions, but my 'solution view' has been similar.
Unfortunatelly in the forum it is sometimes difficult to get new ideas accepted. Therefore I suggested a 'does not harm' solution.

Thanks, Galapo, that you understood the 'HoJoPE stays minimal' idea!

Peter :cheers:

#24 Galapo

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:15 PM

:cheers:
This was the response I hoped to get!

Then I hope that since you are the developer of HoJoPE that this gives you enough encouragement to keep its philosophy as this is what makes it unique. Addition of c_932.nls seems to me unneccessary unless one needs it. So leave it for the particular app to define, or lets just add the option to localeAdditions, or both.

Regards,
Galapo.

#25 pscEx

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:26 PM

Then I hope that since you are the developer of HoJoPE that this gives you enough encouragement to keep its philosophy as this is what makes it unique. Addition of c_932.nls seems to me unneccessary unless one needs it. So leave it for the particular app to define, or lets just add the option to localeAdditions, or both.

Thanks again, Galapo!

You understood and explained my real intention!

As a result. we now are here to collect script lines to perhaps been added to 'localeAdditions.Script' or to a new script to be created for intl font purposes.
As mentioned before: Please script lines only, no links or similar!

Thanks to all who participate and help!

Peter




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