159 replies to this topic

[cdob]

@joakim
About XP install from RAM disk:
I seek a whole working soltuion.
Integrating includes textmode setup, working at first reboot, working after PNP.
And adjusting boot.ini, copy ntldr and ntdetect.com.

I've textmode setup, working at first reboot.
After PNP setup does continue, or fail at BSOD 0x7e or 0x50.
Different behaviour occurs at the same RAM loaded image and the same machine. No explanation so far, maybe a timing error.

Which time saver do you refer to? Did anybody announced a time saver?
Sometimes it's nice to find a solution without real reason, or get some fun with windows installer.
First create a solution: decide usage after.


@maanu
No, you can't add catch22 to that floppy image.
Recovery console won't find catch22 that way.

A one image solution
http://www.boot-land...?...ost&p=71018

[joakim]

I seek a whole working soltuion.
Integrating includes textmode setup, working at first reboot, working after PNP.
And adjusting boot.ini, copy ntldr and ntdetect.com.

I've textmode setup, working at first reboot.

I just assumed that a speedinstall that saves time was what you looked for. What exactly do you have in mind?

I came to think about it and ran a few tests. Basically just automation of partitioning, formatting and copying of files (taken from different phazes). That means copying from ram the files to c: from two different phazes (after 1.st and 2.nd reboot). Up to first reboot, there is insignificant difference. From second reboot, drivers are set, and trouble starts when changing disk type etc, BUT time is certainly saved (windows 2003 server sp2, full, installed in 8 min 50 sec, vmware workstation).

Nevermind, I just thought of something that makes no sense. Forget it.

Joakim

[maanu]

@ cdob

at post#80 u said that we can add catch22 folder in ramboot image ?

RAM load recovery console from a single image.
All recovery console files are included to the image.
CATCH22 is included in RAM loaded image, no external winnt.sif.
Direct boot to recovery console, no need to press r.

also can u or any1 else guide me step by step through making .dsk image with jaclaz's stuff ( i know u already mentioned it step by step ,but i want those steps in more noobish approach )..

p.s u'r mentioning diskless driver detailed by joakim , why cant we use 2k3 sp1's ramdisk for it ?

thank u so much.

[joakim]

p.s u'r mentioning diskless driver detailed by joakim , why cant we use 2k3 sp1's ramdisk for it ?

Because ms ramdisk.sys is not capable of picking up and reusing (INT13) the mapped ramdisk that grub4dos does with either "map --mem ..." or "memdisk raw". Until AndyTim is finished with his project, http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8168 we only have the disklessangel driver to do so, I believe. If you look at this thread, http://sanbarrow.com...opic.php?t=1560 I have detailed how that driver can be used. Look for my posts. One of them includes premade empty disk images with descriptors ready to be mounted by vdk. I also uploaded a spreadsheet calculator there to aid when creating your own images. It's quite self explanatory, just pick one geometry, ie 63/255, and multiply like this;

512 * 63 * 255 * cylinders"

You will get every possible image size for that geometry. Keeping correct size is only necessary for grub4dos, and setupldr.bin on the other hand can handle "wrong" sizes.

Joakim

[maanu]

thanks a lot for the reply joakim ,

i followed ur tut on ur linked page , i made a 16 Mb .dsk file . mounted with included tool ,formated with ntfs / .

firs when i was trying to copy files on mounted drive ,it start copying files (of RC ) but stopped with error message " not enough space " etc .

but the space was there .

then i tried to open the image with winimage , and noticed that it only has "read only " mode.
did i miss something or did something wrong ?

sorry i did not read the all four pages , but later tonight i ll do so .

Thanks a lot once again ..

[was_jaclaz]

@maanu

I don't think there can be anything "n00bier" than this:
http://www.boot-land...?...=5316&st=49

But i'll try :

Open a command prompt.

Navigate to the directory where MBRBATCH, MKIMG and the other needed files are.
Type:

MKIMG

press [Enter] key

You will get a prompt to enter image name:

Please enter target file name:

Type in a suitable name:

maanu.img

press [Enter] key

You will get a prompt to enter size:

Image size, in bytes or suffixed by K, M or G for Kilo Mega or Giga

Please enter target image size:

Type in a suitable size:

10838016

press [Enter] key

You will get a prompt to enter geometry:

Please type desired geometry [128/63 64/63 16/63 64/32]:

Type in a suitable geometry:

16/63

press [Enter] key

You will get a prompt to enter partition type:

Available partition types for this image, 10838016 bytes:

01 FAT 12

04 FAT 16 <32 Mbytes

06 FAT 16 CHS Mapped

07 NTFS

0B FAT 32 CHS Mapped

0C FAT 32 LBA Mapped

0E FAT 16 LBA Mapped

Please type desired Partition Type &#91;01 04 06 07 0B 0C 0E&#93;&#58;

Type in a suitable partition type:

01

press [Enter] key

You will get a prompt to enter program to be used:

Please type /fsz to use fsz.exe or [ENTER] to use mksparse.exe:

Type in /fsz:

/fsz

press [Enter] key

You will be prompted by:

OKCreating a MBR from C:\WINDOWS\System32\dmadmin.exe with dsfo.exe:

OK, 512 bytes, 0.000s, MD5 = 61a174a7d3cbe41d9996de0f124b7ebf



Image will be mounted as 01h:FAT12



The batch has detected that the newly created image is mounted as drive L:



NOW it would be the perfect time to stop if you are not sure about

what you are doing.



Press any key to continue . . .

Press [ANY] key :
http://www.911cd.net...o...=23124&st=4

You will be prompted by the usual format warnings:

File system is RAW.

New filesystem is FAT.

WARNING ALL DATA ON DRIVE ...

....

Press [Y] key (or whatever means Yes in your language/local system

An explorer window will open on the newly formatted virtual image, to allow you to copy to it whatever you want to copy to it.

Do it, then close the Explorer window, you will be prompted by:

Press any key to unmount the image and uninstall vdk.exe...



Press any key to continue . . .

Press [ANY] key

You'll see the report of VDK being closed:

Virtual Disk Driver for Windows version 3.1

http://chitchat.at.infoseek.co.jp/vmware/



Closing the image on the virtual disk 0...The image is closed.

Stopped the Virtual Disk Driver.

Uninstalled the Virtual Disk Driver.

An example of a "whole session" is given here:
http://www.boot-land...?...=3191&st=26
http://www.boot-land...?...ost&id=6336

READ the existing threads on the topic:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3191
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5000

FORGET about using Winimage on HD-like images, use VDK opening the corresponding .pln file (generated by MKIMG/MBRBATCH), NOT the actual .img file.
Optionally use the pseudoGUI for VDK:
http://home.graffiti...ts/VDM/vdm.html

REMEMBER that the app is intended for people that know what they are doing, it will only (hopefully) do what you tell it to do, it has not auto-magic/mind-reading capabilities, and also error checks are limited to the bare minimum.

jaclaz

[online]

@maanu

Although the jaclaz's reply is extremely detailed about the image creation I will try to add some hints about the whole built procedure, assuming that you already have your "cmdcons" folder:

• Please, note that the image size in the jaclaz's example is 10MB; so if you need a size of 15MB you have to enter 15,998,976 bytes (the calculation method is here http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...t&p=42798): this way grub4dos will not (rightly) complain about a wrong image size (although it will boot in any case).
  
• Note that (though you can always re-mount your HD image using its "pln" descriptor, so save it too) before to unmount the just created (and then automatically mounted) HD image (that's before to press any key for the last time)
  

  Press any key to unmount the image and uninstall vdk.exe...
  Press any key to continue . . .

  you have to open your Logical Drive (that's your just mounted HD image) with your HEX Editor editing its bootsector as following
  

  from MSDOS5.0 to cmdcons

  Note that it is very important that also you edit the final "0" (> hex "30") with hex "00", otherwise a BSOD "textsetup.sif missing or corrupt" error will occur.
  And
  

  from NTLDR to SETUPLDRBIN

  then without the "dot".
  Do not forget to save your changes from your HexEditor!
  
• Now you (obviously) have to copy your "catch22" and "cmdcons" folders in your mounted HD image (root), and "NTDETECT.COM" and "SETUPLDR.BIN too...
  
• The "winnt.sif" file existing in your "cmdcons" folder must contain just the following entry
  

  [data]CmdCons="1"

• The "catch22" folder must to reside in your image root
  
• You have to delete "ramdisk.sys" or "ramdisk.sy_" in your "cmdcons" folder
  
• You have to copy "wdsys.sys" in your "cmdcons" folder
  
• At RC prompt (then after the booting) you have to choose just the "catch22 installation"-number (then no password will be required) and then you have to enter the following command
  

  batch setallon

  JFYI: I have renamed "setallon" file to "on" and "catch22" folder to "batch_on" in order to remember the related command when (very late?) required...
  
• Note that there are some reports about BSOD occurring when no disk signature is present in the image; however I do not set it and then it boots/works nice for me.
  
• I've used "NTDETECT.COM" and "SETUPLDR.BIN" from W2k3SP1.
  
• Format your HD image with FAT file-system rather than NTFS.
  
• Add in your "menu.lst" something like the following entries
  

  title XP Recovery Consolemap --mem /boot/maanu.img (hd0)map --hookroot (hd0,0)chainloader (hd0,0)+1

• The HD image root/content appears just as in the following screenshot.

[maanu]

@ jaclaz

thank u so much for the reply . im regretting that why didn't i check it myself first .i was afraid i guess , it is very easy to use ur tools if someone try to .

well i acted upon ur commands , just as u asked me to , bt i used direct MB size image . (although tried ur example too ) , but it ended up with the following error ,



im using the mkimg from the following folder , check the hash .



i 'd really like to play with this stuff , even i already have a working .img based RC of xp and 2k3 . but sadly it does not have the catch22 magic ,as well as it needs ntdetect.com at the root of usb drive .

@ online ,
thanks a lot sir , i ll for sure follow these directions after making .dsk image.

[was_jaclaz]

@ jaclaz

thank u so much for the reply . im regretting that why didn't i check it myself first .i was afraid i guess , it is very easy to use ur tools if someone try to .
....
i 'd really like to play with this stuff , even i already have a working .img based RC of xp and 2k3 . but sadly it does not have the catch22 magic ,as well as it needs ntdetect.com at the root of usb drive .
....

The base step would have been to use some "common sense" (actually it should be called "rare sense" nowadays ).

I see from what you post that you are young and thus miss the "old school" way of thinking.

This is not a "path":

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\misc down\MBRBatch\MBRBatch\

It's more like the Trans-Siberian:
http://en.wikipedia....iberian_Railway



Try closing all windows in your desktop, and type it starting from a prompt in C:\, AND without using [TAB] autocompletion .

This is a path:

C:\MBRbatch\

As it has two characteristics that are worth:

• it's short
  
• it contains NO spaces

Seriously, try again using a path with NO spaces (ever wondered WHY dinosaurs like myself always use whenever possible 8+3 convention or, at the worse, underscore in file_names? )

JFYI, I am just coming from a friend who couldn't backup/copy a file from his intranet Win2k server, the name/path of the file was:

\From_old_Server\backup del 12 gennaio 2001\Posta Generale\Posta in uscita\e-mail per l'Italia\Lettera del 10.01.2001 spedita al Sig. Coletti con oggetto la richiesta di spostamento di un cavo interrato a 20 kV in località Frisone (interferenza al km 12+128,00)

Server 2K didn't even allow me to rename it!




jaclaz

[maanu]

u do have a sense of humor . even i guess i also have .bt my gf disagrees that techie guys have some sense of humor . i ll let her use my bootland account to read some of ur posts (and some others.. )

now on topic ,

i made a directory at root of c:\ . with the name of "jaclaz" , and copied all files there.

so the root is , C:\jaclaz

same error again .

[was_jaclaz]

same error again .

Hmm.

Open both MKIMG.CMD and MBRBATCH.CMD in NOTEEPAD.

Change first line of each from:

@ECHO OFF

to

REM @ECHO OFF

Re-run.

What happens when the error comes out? (post a few lines around the error as before)

Try in the command prompt to run:

FIND /?

what happens? You do have FIND.EXE somewhere in your path don't you?



jaclaz

[maanu]

my bad , find.exe was not in systemroot .

thanks i ll get back if (most likely ) i need any further help with getting RC to work with my image.//

[was_jaclaz]

my bad ....

Sure , that was the actual axiom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom
we started with.



Happy to know the error went out.



jaclaz

[maanu]

quoting Online,

[*]Note that (though you can always re-mount your HD image using its "pln" descriptor, so save it too) before to unmount the just created (and then automatically mounted) HD image (that's before to press any key for the last time)
you have to open your Logical Drive (that's your just mounted HD image) with your HEX Editor editing its bootsector as following

from MSDOS5.0 to cmdcons

Note that it is very important that also you edit the final "0" (> hex "30") with hex "00", otherwise a BSOD will occur.

well i tried to open the disk (L: ) in my case with winhex , but it did not let me edit the above stuff (as expected ) .
can u plz recommend any perticuler hex editor (pref free)..

here is the screen shoot of created image if it helps.

[was_jaclaz]

well i tried to open the disk (L: ) in my case with winhex , but it did not let me edit the above stuff (as expected ) .
can u plz recommend any perticuler hex editor (pref free)..

(as expected ) by whom?

Rest assured that winhex or any other hex/disk editor, do edit things.

Maybe you have some other "strange" setting (read only mode in winhex?).

However, you can always edit the bootsector (sector 63) of the file once it has been unmounted.

Of the free hexeditors I personally use tinyhexer:
http://www.boot-land...?...=8296&st=13

jaclaz

[maanu]

thanks for the suggestion sir , tiny hexer worked this time.

here is what is did ,

a. image name = maanu.img
b. size = 16M
c. geomatery = 16/63
d. fs = 01 (fat12)
e. selected fsz
f. when L : drive appeared , i opened it with tiny hexer , i edited MSDOS5. to CMDCONS and also edited the hex 30 to 00 , as well as NTLDR to SETUPLDRBIN without dot as directed by online . and write changes .

g. then copied my cmdcons folder to the root of just mounted L:\ drive ,copied ntedetec.com and CATCH22 folder at root of the image . then copied ramdisk.sys and setupldr.bin from win2k3 sp1 , copied it in cmcons folder as well as to root of image . i made sure that there is WINNT.sif with same lines as directed by online
unmounted it .

called by the following lines,

map --mem /maanu.img (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader (hd0,0)+1

error , " remove any disk and restart "

then tried to call with memdisk ,

title XP Recovery Console
kernel /MEMDISK c=33 h=16 s=63 floppy
initrd /maanu.img

stuck at " Loading Boot sector " .

( i copied 33 / 16 / 63 from the first try , it displayed on the screen ),,

im sure i have wrongly handled something or missed ,

and by the way im enjoying this trial and error thing . or should i say the learning ...

[online]

i edited MSDOS5. to CMDCONS

Maybe it could work the same as uppercase, but I edited it as "cmdcons" (> lowercase).

copied my cmdcons folder to the root of just mounted L:\ drive ,copied ntedetec.com and CATCH22 folder at root of the image

That's ok.
Of course "catch22" folder is unzipped and without subfolders except the "system32" one, right?

then copied ramdisk.sys and setupldr.bin from win2k3 sp1 , copied it in cmcons folder as well as to root of image

No, it's wrong!
You have to delete existing "ramdisk.sys" or "ramdisk.sy_" from your "cmdcons" folder.
Then you have to copy "wdsys.sys" (from Diskless Angel) renamed as "ramdisk.sys" in your "cmdcons" folder.
Then you have to copy "setupldr.bin" (from W2k3SP1) only in your HD (mounted) image root.

Then, please let know about your progress...

[was_jaclaz]

You have to delete existing "ramdisk.sys" or "ramdisk.sy_" from your "cmdcons" folder.
Then you have to copy "wdsys.sys" (from Diskless Angel) renamed as "ramdisk.sys" in your "cmdcons" folder.

WHY?

ONLY if you want to use wdsys.sys INSTEAD of RAMDISK.SYS. (which is NOT needed for anything below 512 Mb in size).

And yes , cmdcons is NOT equal to CMDCONS:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=2362&st=7


jaclaz

[online]

However, you can always edit the bootsector (sector 63) of the file once it has been unmounted.

Yep, but so it seemed to me a bit unhandy because you have to search/find it at the first occurrence (in my case at the address 7E03h): instead when the image is mounted then "MSDOS5.0" appears just on the first line.

[online]

WHY?

Simple, because Recovery Console built in a single (all-inclusive) HD image with "ramdisk.sys" does not work.

ONLY if you want to use wdsys.sys INSTEAD of RAMDISK.SYS. (which is NOT needed for anything below 512 Mb in size).

Not so simple, at least in this case.

I'm not (yet? ) an expert (please, give me time! ), but maybe the real reason is here...

Because ms ramdisk.sys is not capable of picking up and reusing (INT13) the mapped ramdisk that grub4dos does with either "map --mem ..." or "memdisk raw".

[maanu]

same steps as above quoted and made a 16 MB maanu1.dsk ,

edited msdos like this ,




then ntldr like this



copied cmdcons folder to root of mounted image , copied ramdisk.sys and setupldr.bin from win2k3 sp1 . setupldr.bin to root , tamdisk inside cmdcons folder , DID not use diskless angel yet .

catch22 has no subfolders except system 32.

now called the image by using above mentioned both methods , SAME error message .

then tried the following and it started booting,

title test

map --mem /maanu1.dsk (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader (hd0,0)/setupldr.bin

but after loading ,. " please wait " and then sweet and sexy BSOD with 0x7b clothes wearing

[joakim]

title test

map --mem /maanu1.dsk (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader (hd0,0)/setupldr.bin

but after loading ,. " please wait " and then sweet and sexy BSOD with 0x7b clothes wearing

You need to have the diskless angel driver to do "map --mem.." even for images below 512 Mb, because ms ramdisk.sys don't understand it. Use setupldr.bin from 2003sp1 to load raw images below 512 Mb. For images above 512 Mb load it with grub4dos "map --mem.." or "memdisk raw" (because there is a check inside setupldr.bin that detects the size. For images above 512 Mb, also copy the wdsys.sys into system32\drivers and then open TXTSETUP.SIF (inside the I386 folder) in a texteditor and add "wdsys=wdsys.sys,4" (without the qoutation marks) at the end of the [SCSI.Load] section.

Joakim

[online]

DID not use diskless angel yet
. . .
after loading ,. " please wait " and then sweet and sexy BSOD with 0x7b clothes wearing

Just due to "ramdisk.sys".
You have to use "wdsys.sys" (renamed) file, indeed.

Please, note that if you do not follow the related suggestions to your pointings then the related "support" could fade ...

[was_jaclaz]

@maanu

Well, the screenshot you posted has NTLDR hexedited to SETUP (as opposed to SETUPLDRBIN)

My guess is that you are trying to do everything at once, mixing together informations taken here and there without actually having understood fully the reason why a method is slightly different from another and for what reason the change has been made.

Why don't you start again from scratch using ONLY the info here:
http://www.boot-land...?...=5316&st=40
and try to create EXACTLY that build?

Once you have recreated successfully EXACTLY that build, try variations, ONE AT THE TIME.

@online
Well, what joakim said is another thing (and however, you cannot take a speculation as a fact or base upon it further evolutions), I'll re-quote the original sentence, with bolded italic the part you might have missed:

Because ms ramdisk.sys is not capable of picking up and reusing (INT13) the mapped ramdisk that grub4dos does with either "map --mem ..." or "memdisk raw". Until AndyTim is finished with his project, http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8168 we only have the disklessangel driver to do so, I believe.

With ramdisk.sys from Server2003 SP1 and grub4dos mapping, you effectively load the image into memory TWICE, once through grub4dos --mem mapping, the other one through the ramdisk loading.

What Andy Tim is trying to do here:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8168
is to have the image loaded in RAM only once by either grub4dos map --mem or memdisk and then RE-USE the same RAM addresses with his driver.

Loading the image twice does not make a big difference when using 10÷16 Mbyte images, but of course the difference will be great for biggish images in the 300÷640 Mb one.

And however the build I suggested originally does NOT use map --mem, but rather direct mapping.

@online
@joakim
Rest assured that the build described in the said post:
http://www.boot-land...?...=5316&st=40

works allright WITHOUT using wdsys.sys




jaclaz

[joakim]

Well, what joakim said is another thing (and however, you cannot take a speculation as a fact or base upon it further evolutions), I'll re-quote the original sentence, with bolded italic the part you might have missed:

I don't understand.

Do you imply that ramdisk.sys can handle "map --mem" or "memdisk raw" (not direct mapping)? Or are having another driver in mind, I am not aware of?

Joakim