Jump to content











Photo

Install XP from USB AFTER Booting with PE from HDD or USB


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
316 replies to this topic

#201 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 23 April 2009 - 10:15 AM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB

  • Added MBRWiz64.exe for 64-bit Windows Support
  • Improved error handling
=

#202 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2,813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:13 AM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB

  • Added MBRWiz64.exe for 64-bit Windows Support
  • Improved error handling
=

Hey buddy, having some issues with your latest roll out :)

Starting with an existing 2GB FAT stick, I tried your new NTFS format option. Suggested hp patch, I said yes - It seemed to work, though I got this pop-up first:
Attached File  err1.JPG   8.92KB   105 downloads

Is this normal? I followed instruction and it completed the format with 'success' but then I got the following:
Attached File  err2.JPG   26.99KB   109 downloads

I tried restarting with same result; Formatted back to FAT, same error! Tried previous version of your program with no other changes and worked fine :) - so I was back to a working FAT; I tried with the new version again and this time declined the hp patch, this time no errors so I guess the patch caused the issue?

I still can't boot either of the two machines I have access to with NTFS, 'Error loading operating system' - Probably a hardware limitation? Oh well, back to FAT which works fine but pretty slow load to RAM.

#203 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:37 AM

Starting with an existing 2GB FAT stick, I tried your new NTFS format option. Suggested hp patch, I said yes - It seemed to work, though I got this pop-up first:
Attached File  err1.JPG   8.92KB   105 downloads

Is this normal?

Hi amalux,
Thanks for testing.
The first pop-up is normal for sticks which does not have yet valid MBR code, such as wiped stick or stick formatted as Superfloppy (e.g. commercial available sticks).
The Reconnect is necessary to update the OS with the new MBR info written on USB-stick.
For sticks having already an MBR, then this pop-up should not occur. In what way was your stick originally formatted for this case ?

I followed instruction and it completed the format with 'success' but then I got the following:
Attached File  err2.JPG   26.99KB   109 downloads

This should not occur and surprises me.
I assume you get this message on pressing GO button ?

The HP Patch is not the issue.
Here I do Not get the problems that you describe.
NTFS Formatted stick is booting perfect.
Did you Disconnect and Reconnect USB-stick at first pop-up after HP Patch message ?

You mean that the version of 22 april is OK and the version of 23 april is giving the issues ? :)

Can you redownload and try again ?
I cannot reproduce your second problem.

#204 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2,813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:18 AM

Hi amalux,
Thanks for testing.
The first pop-up is normal for sticks which does not have yet valid MBR code, such as wiped stick or stick formatted as Superfloppy (e.g. commercial available sticks).
The Reconnect is necessary to update the OS with the new MBR info written on USB-stick.
For sticks having already an MBR, then this pop-up should not occur. In what way was your stick originally formatted for this case ?

FAT, PeToUSB (Format.com fails); UFD was bootable prior to test.

This should not occur and surprises me.
I assume you get this message on pressing GO button ?

Yes.

The HP Patch is not the issue.
Here I do Not get the problems that you describe.
NTFS Formatted stick is booting perfect.
Did you Disconnect and Reconnect USB-stick at first pop-up after HP Patch message ?

Yes.

You mean that the version of 22 april is OK and the version of 23 april is giving the issues ? :)

Can you redownload and try again ?
I cannot reproduce your second problem.

No, sorry, missed that update; the one that works (for FAT) was downloaded early April and does not have the NTFS option. I'll try downloading and retesting from scratch to make sure I didn't miss something, very tired now - I'll pick it up in the morning. Thanks wimb :)

#205 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:00 AM

FAT, PeToUSB (Format.com fails); UFD was bootable prior to test.

Then the stick did have MBR already and the Reconnect pop-up should Not have appeared. Strange :)

No, sorry, missed that update; the one that works (for FAT) was downloaded early April and does not have the NTFS option. I'll try downloading and retesting from scratch to make sure I didn't miss something, very tired now - I'll pick it up in the morning. Thanks wimb :)

The early April version did Not have yet the Format Stick Button. The new format routine was introduced on 22nd April version, which is functionally the same as yours of 23rd April. So it means that in the one that works for you, you must have used external format tool launched with either HP Format Tool or PeToUsb Button.
But these tools work independant of the program, whereas the Format Stick Button provides an entirely new format routine which was added to the program on 22nd of April.
I hope you get it working after Redownload, since the things that are happening for you are quite strange, and I cannot explain them. :)

#206 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2,813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 24 April 2009 - 02:13 PM

Well, nothing new, same results - This is info given prior to NTFS format:
Attached File  ntform.JPG   16.02KB   108 downloads

These are 6-7 year old Dell's, so not surprising there would be issues. When I get a chance I'll test on a newer machine. Thanks wimb, keep up the good work :)

#207 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 24 April 2009 - 03:17 PM

Well, nothing new, same results - This is info given prior to NTFS format:
Attached File  ntform.JPG   16.02KB   108 downloads

These are 6-7 year old Dell's, so not surprising there would be issues. When I get a chance I'll test on a newer machine. Thanks wimb, keep up the good work :)

Hi amalux,

The info of this pop-up and the data shown are perfectly OK for your device, so in this respect everything is normal.
It occurs just before the actual format of the USB-stick will take place. :)

I hope you can test the program also on other machines :)

EDIT: I just found the bug which will give the ERROR - Invalid FileSystem popup on pressing GO Button. Thanks for your bug report :)
This error would occur for FAT and FAT32 FileSystem and had nothing to do with the new format routine, it was just a bug. :)
Will you please re-download and test U_XP_SET :(

#208 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 24 April 2009 - 05:02 PM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB

- Removed bug in Make_USB.exe and Make_USB_2.exe which would give a pop-up Invalid FileSystem Return Error when clicking the GO Button.
This could take place for FAT and FAT32 formatted USB-sticks.

Sorry for the inconvenience, wll you please re-download U_XP_SET

Thanks to amalux for reporting this program bug.

#209 amalux

amalux

    Platinum Member

  • Tutorial Writer
  • 2,813 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:29 PM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB

- Removed bug in Make_USB.exe and Make_USB_2.exe which would give a pop-up Invalid FileSystem Return Error when clicking the GO Button.
This could take place for FAT and FAT32 formatted USB-sticks.

Sorry for the inconvenience, wll you please re-download U_XP_SET

Thanks to amalux for reporting this program bug.

Hi wimb, that did get rid of the errors and everything seems to work fine, I still can't boot from NTFS UFD (flashing cursor then reboot - no error) but as I said, probably my hardware?? - no way to know till I get another machine to test. I'll post results then - hopefully success! :)

:)

#210 vmbray

vmbray

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 29 posts
  •  
    United States

Posted 25 April 2009 - 01:53 AM

Hi wimb, I just tried to use your script to format a stick and the 'format stick' is greyed out. I can see the stick in other software like petousb as shown in attachment, strange. I tried installing the autoit3 and that didn't make any difference. Also tried different sticks - am I missing something? Thanks-

Attached Files



#211 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 25 April 2009 - 06:19 AM

Hi wimb, I just tried to use your script to format a stick and the 'format stick' is greyed out.

For safety I have limited the Format Stick option to Removable Devices.
Your USB-stick is seen as Fixed as displayed in PeToUSB picture, so it is normal that Format Stick Button remains greyed out. The stick is seen as Fixed probably due to install of a filter driver. For Fixed disks you can also use Windows XP Disk Management.

#212 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 25 April 2009 - 07:02 AM

Hi wimb, that did get rid of the errors and everything seems to work fine, I still can't boot from NTFS UFD (flashing cursor then reboot - no error) but as I said, probably my hardware??

Hi amalux,

Thanks for testing. Good to know that the program is OK now. :)

Unable to boot from NTFS UFD can indeed be hardware related.
Looking forward to see your results on other machines.

For the old Dell machines you might also try to use Make_USB_2.exe from USB_XP_Setup folder to prepare NTFS formatted USB-sticks with a second partition to improve bootability as reported by online for certain motherboards. :)

:)

#213 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 28 April 2009 - 09:49 AM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB


Make_USB.exe and Make_USB_2.exe were updated.
The procedure of Format Stick Button will now make Bootable FAT and FAT32 USB-sticks.
For NTFS Format the procedure was already OK, but FAT32 and FAT sticks were NOT bootable.

After many experiments, I hope to have realized now a reliable procedure for all cases to make really bootable USB-sticks.
The procedure for FAT32 and FAT includes an essential Disconnect pop-up.

Please try and report about the new procedure.

=

#214 maanu

maanu

    Gold Member

  • Advanced user
  • 1,125 posts
  •  
    Pakistan

Posted 28 April 2009 - 03:12 PM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB


Make_USB.exe and Make_USB_2.exe were updated.
The procedure of Format Stick Button will now make Bootable FAT and FAT32 USB-sticks.
For NTFS Format the procedure was already OK, but FAT32 and FAT sticks were NOT bootable.

After many experiments, I hope to have realized now a reliable procedure for all cases to make really bootable USB-sticks.
The procedure for FAT32 and FAT includes an essential Disconnect pop-up.

Please try and report about the new procedure.


new procedure ? how is it MORE bootable ,is it online's dual partitioning stuff ?
and there is same patched hp mbr ?

#215 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 28 April 2009 - 03:57 PM

new procedure ? how is it MORE bootable ,is it online's dual partitioning stuff ?
and there is same patched hp mbr ?

The Format Stick routine was improved for FAT and FAT32 FileSystem,
by patching after Format two important bytes which determine bootability of USB-stick.
  • MBR - Reset FAT FileSystem byte = 0E (LBA) at offset 0x1C2 in MBR, after format it was 06 (CHS) and not bootable
  • FAT BootSector - drive-id patch 0x80 at offset 0x24 , after format it was 00 and Not bootable
  • MBR - Reset FAT32 FileSystem byte = 0C (LBA) at offset 0x1C2 in MBR, after format it was 0B (CHS) and Not bootable
  • FAT32 Bootsector - drive-id patch 0x80 at offset 0x40 , after format it was 00 and Not bootable

FAT and FAT32 USB-stick are NOT bootable without patching these two critical bytes, and flashing cursor or Disk Error would be the result. The problem is that Windows OS all the time tries to reset these bytes to NON-bootable value.
But this problem was overcome in the present procedure.

The HP Patch for MBR-code and the Patch to make second partition entry in Make_USB_2.exe have not been changed.

#216 cdob

cdob

    Silver Member

  • Expert
  • 976 posts

Posted 29 April 2009 - 07:45 PM

Make_USB.exe and Make_USB_2.exe were updated.
The procedure of Format Stick Button will now make Bootable FAT and FAT32 USB-sticks.

Make_USB_2.exe:

240 heads BIOS used, at least at internal hard disk.
There are unkonwn used heads at USB booting.

USB stick at 255/63 partitioned.


8 GB USB stick, FAT32, windows default bootsector:
no HP MBR: booting fails at MBR

with HP patched MBR: booting fails at bootsector: black screen, blinking underscore.
QEMU does boot this USB stick. QEMU does use 255 heads.

Next Bootsector noped, position 0xE6 to 0xE9
http://blog.clemens....ndows_3170.html
http://www.911cd.net...&...st&p=154139
Real machine and QEMU does boot 8 GB USB stick.


16 GB USB stick, FAT32, windows default bootsector:
without and with HP MBR patch: Real machine and QEMU does boot

#217 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:59 AM

@cdob

Interesting that patching of FAT32 Bootsector with NOP at Offset 0xE6 to 0xE9 solved this particular USB-stick booting problem.

How often does such exceptional BIOS occur ?

Did you try to format the stick with NTFS FileSystem,
which is preferred in performance over FAT32 ?
Is in case of NTFS BootSector patching with 4 NOP at Offset 0xD9 - 0xDC needed to make the stick bootable ?

Can you give for this case the makebt\dpusb.txt file as Attachment, which can be helpful to make a workaround in the program.

Or if you like, you can try to modify the program code to a working solution.

EDIT: I just tried to patch FAT32 BootSector with 4 NOP bytes on a stick not having boot problem.
The stick is still bootable, which means that may be we can use the 4x NOP Patch as a general option to be applied to the FAT32 BootSector of USB-sticks.
I can change the program so that such 4x NOP patch will be applied to the BootSector if desired.

#218 cdob

cdob

    Silver Member

  • Expert
  • 976 posts

Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:06 PM

How often does such exceptional BIOS occur ?

240 heads BIOS is used at HP and IBM/Lenovo notebooks.
However a average windows user dosn't know this.
Adjust a search strings therefore.
Search for
thinkpad 240 heads
/dev/hda 240 heads
/dev/sda 240 heads

Examples:
http://nstrom.google....com/n3110.html
http://www.thinkwiki...inkPad_R51-1830

Did you try to format the stick with NTFS FileSystem,
which is preferred in performance over FAT32 ?

No I didn'try NTFS yesterday, here you go:

Make_USB_2.exe, 8 GB USB stick, NTFS:
with HP patched MBR: booting fails at bootsector: black screen, blinking underscore.
QEMU does boot this USB stick.

Next the NTFS bootsector noped: position 0xD9 to 0xDC
The real machine and QEMU does boot 8 GB USB stick.

dousb.txt

Disk: 0 Size: 153G CHS: 20673 240 63

Disk: 1 Size: 7.7G CHS: 983 255 63
Pos MBRndx Type/Name Size Active Hide Start Sector Sectors DL Vol Label
--- ------ ---------- ---- ------ ---- ------------ ------------ -- ----------
0 0 07-NTFS 7.7G Yes No 63 15,711,507 H: BOOT_USB


16 GB USB stick, NTFS:
without and with HP MBR patch: Real machine and QEMU does boot


2 GB USB stick, NTFS:
Real machine does boot.
QEMU fails at bootsector: A disk read error occurred - Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart

Next the NTFS bootsector noped: position 0xD9 to 0xDC
The real machine and QEMU does boot 2 GB USB stick.

#219 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:23 PM

@cdob
Thanks a lot for all info and NTFS Boot results.

I will change Make_USB.exe to add option such that 4x NOP patch can be applied to the FAT32 and NTFS BootSector.
It is an interesting improvement and thanks to you has proven to be useful.

#220 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:32 AM

=
PROGRAM UPDATE - U_XP_SET Package - Install XP from USB

Make_USB.exe was updated.
The Format Stick procedure includes now all patches found useful by cdob and online for making bootable USB-sticks. Thanks for testing :D

CHS Knock-out Patches and Make Second Dummy Partition are user Selectable and involve:
  • Apply HP Patch to USB-stick MBR Code for CHS Knock-out
  • Apply 4x NOP Patch to FAT32 and NTFS BootSector for CHS Knock-out
  • Make Second Partition - 40 MB FAT32 as Dummy
Please try and report about bootability of USB-sticks made with the Format Stick procedure of Make_USB.exe

So forget about Make_USB_2.exe since now everything is included in Make_USB.exe

#221 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7,100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:01 AM

3. Make Second Partition - 40 MB FAT32 as Dummy


Which is still originated from some Kabbalistic roots. :D

I know I am a bit tough :D, but it seems to me that after having debunked the initial 250 Mb, we already got as far as:
  • no need for it to be 40 Mb
  • no need for it to be FAT32
  • no need for it being actually formatted
http://www.boot-land...?...=7739&st=62

Or am I missing something? ;)

jaclaz

#222 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:34 AM

Testing of online revealed that RMPREPUSB with limited size second partition entry was only successful for NTFS format and NOT for FAT32
http://www.boot-land...?...=7739&st=61

Testing of online revealed that Make_USB_2.exe making 5 Cyl unformatted FAT32 second partition entry was successful for all FileSystems in first partition
http://www.boot-land...?...=7512&st=52

So I follow the until now most successful reported approach. :D
And I think you won't miss these 40 MB on nowadays GB USB-sticks.

#223 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7,100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 01 May 2009 - 11:29 AM

Testing of online revealed that RMPREPUSB with limited size second partition entry was only successful for NTFS format and NOT for FAT32
http://www.boot-land...?...=7739&st=61

Testing of online revealed that Make_USB_2.exe making 5 Cyl unformatted FAT32 second partition entry was successful for all FileSystems in first partition
http://www.boot-land...?...=7512&st=52


We have different ideas of what testing, reporting and experimenting is. :D

Online reported some results. :D

No further experiments were carried to understand the relationship between the reports and the several variables that are involved, including MBR code and bootsector code patches.

When and if your app (not that of steve6375, no offence intended of course ;)) will be tested:
with a 30 Mb partition and 0C
with a 30 Mb partition and 21 (or 1C or 16 or 1B or 1E)
with a 20 Mb partition and 0C
with a 20 Mb partition and 21 (or 1C or 16 or 1B or 1E)
etc.
...
with a 1 sector partition and 0C
with a 1 sector partition and 21 (or 1C or 16 or 1B or 1E)

Each one actuall formatted or not....

We will hopefully be able to draw a line at some place. ;)

So I follow the until now most successful reported approach. :(

Sure :), and until I have the full reports, and possibly by more than one experimenter, I will underline how these settings (though reported as working ;) ) are IMHO irrational or random, based on Kabbalistic origins or some form of :(.

Apples have since the dawn of time falled from trees.

You don't need to know why it happens to expect they will do.

Point is why they behave like that, and why they don't fall upwards.

And what is the minimal condition needed for them to stop falling down and start falling upwards. :)

Though facilitated by standing of the shoulder of giants :), Sir Isaac Newton asked himself why that happened (and found a respectable answer).

And I think you won't miss these 40 MB on nowadays GB USB-sticks.

Here you are wrong. :(

I miss every single sector, I am fond of each single one of them ;), I even simply love a few single bytes, like the 55AA at 0X01FE 0X01FF for example.

:)

:)

jaclaz

P.S.: though seemingly completely crazy, there is some method in my approach :), and it may even result in something actually useful, as an example, we know that the grldr.mbr can find grldr on any partition (active or not active and even hidden). Won't it be nice, once we have found what is the minimal second partition size, and if it works as hidden, to use it to hold grldr and menu.lst?

#224 wimb

wimb

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 2,174 posts
  •  
    Netherlands

Posted 01 May 2009 - 11:51 AM

We have different ideas of what testing, reporting and experimenting is. :D
....
Won't it be nice, once we have found what is the minimal second partition size, and if it works as hidden, to use it to hold grldr and menu.lst?

My idea about testing is similar to yours, but unfortunately I am not able to test the effect of a second partition. For me it has no effect.

It seems that until now online is the only one that has given results which support using a small second partition on USB-stick .....

We need more results of others ....
before we can draw conclusions on the effect of a second partition.

#225 was_jaclaz

was_jaclaz

    Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 7,100 posts
  • Location:Gone in the mist
  •  
    Italy

Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:10 PM

It seems that until now online is the only one that has given results which support using a small second partition on USB-stick .....


I vaguely remember Lancelot posted about having a similar motherboard, maybe we could gently :) induce him :D to do some experiments?;)

Would it be a problem for you - at your leisure - making a Make_USBx.exe with these added features :D:
  • changeable size of second partition (default 40 Mb) ;)
  • changeable type of second partition (default FAT32 0C) ;)
  • option to format or not second partition (default format) ;)

this way, as soon as a guinea-pig volunteers he will have a nice tool to do so.

Or even a "normal" user would have a further degree of freedom.

:)

jaclaz




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users