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Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!


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#1 Galapo

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 09:34 AM

Hi amalux,

Good work! I haven't read everything here yet.

But note: Step one doesn't have to be followed with the latest DP mass storage script if downloading fresh off the LiveXP server. Test and see...

Regards,
Galapo.

#2 Nuno Brito

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 11:24 AM

Excellent tutorial.

A few optional tips:

You can also download the trial version of Windows 2003 SP1 R2 from the microsoft site and copy the files from the ISO image:
http://www.microsoft...llinstruct.mspx

VirtualBox is also a very good emulator in alternative to vmware
http://www.virtualbox.org/

We do need more of these tutorials to help others - thank you! :)

#3 ispy

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 01:31 PM

Hi Amalux, :)

Edited - After further thought, Inappropriate posting

My Sincere Appologies,

ispy :(

#4 amalux

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 04:21 PM

Hi amalux,

Good work! I haven't read everything here yet.

But note: Step one doesn't have to be followed with the latest DP mass storage script if downloading fresh off the LiveXP server. Test and see...

Regards,
Galapo.

Hi Galapo!

Thanks, yeah, I tested first and got a pop-up telling me 'Windows can't find those files...'; you know, the usual, 'you're pointing to a directory that doesn't exist' type thing. Now that I think about it, it's probably because I had network support disabled during that build :( I'll add this to my list of revisions for the 'next edition' :)

#5 amalux

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 04:39 PM

Excellent tutorial.

A few optional tips:

You can also download the trial version of Windows 2003 SP1 R2 from the microsoft site and copy the files from the ISO image:
http://www.microsoft...llinstruct.mspx

VirtualBox is also a very good emulator in alternative to vmware
http://www.virtualbox.org/

We do need more of these tutorials to help others - thank you! :)

Thanks Nuno!

That link is for SP2 version; my tests with SP2 have all failed miserably. Are you sure that version works? If so I'll test it again; it would be nice to have another option available from M$ :( . It's been awhile since I played with Virualbox, time to give the new version a test drive! Thanks Nuno :cheers:

p.s. Thank you very much for the 'upgrade'; it really, really helps! :cheers:

#6 amalux

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 06:48 PM

Hi Amalux :cheers: ,

A "Newbie Here" (Inclined to ask DumbAss Questions!)

I am approaching this reply with a certain amount of intrepidation as I do not want it to seem as if I am being picky or overally critical. PLEASE look upon these recommendations as "possible" tweaks for you to include or disregard. You (& others) may agree/disagree with what I am about to outline.

First Off, I would like to say that you have evidently recognised the need for starter tutorials for the novice user of Winbuilder. It is very good, well defined, systematic & inclusive of visual aids which always help to explain. As they say "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Question: Are you using Win2003 as your OS & this tutorial is geared in the main to those users?

If what I am saying is relevant? Could you when you first open the "Tut" have an option via a link to be either taken to the Win2003 tut or to the XP (Pro/Home) Tut. Alternatively you could have a key at the beginning that states that all Black typed text refers to Win2003 Os's, whereas all Blue text refers to XP type Os's. It would depend on how long the eventual tutorial expanded to in this event it could make it overbearing & lengthy. The advantage would be a more generic format, "Kill two birds with one stone", & reduce disfragmentation of tutorials. E.G. Later on all tutorials could be cross referenced to each other in a networked "Newbies" section "if" it transpires.

I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a 1st time winbuilder user & as such do you think an opening introduction paragraph would be beneficial to explain what LiveXP is & briefly its potential benfits to the user. This is really just to confirm to the prospective user he is selecting the right tool for the job so to speak. Also, Psc (Peter) gave me a V.Good tip, only use to start with the "Recommenmded" downloads in respect of the script, on the pretext, the less you download iniatially the less chance it has of going wrong.

The opening paragraph is a very good point back it up, this is very often overlooked. Who knows what can happen? However later on down the line why not have a Button/Link as part of the existing text, to say give very brief instructs on the useage of say Trueimage (Commercial) & Driveimage XML to reinforce/consolidate the need for a backup image, just to be safe. This would purely be a branch offshoot.

Moving onto the 2nd paragraph, in the respect of any tips what about using say the Light bulb :( smiley or some other recognisable icon to quickly identify all "tips".

In reference to the 3rd paragraph in:

What about this as an alternative?

or similair words/text to that effect the former just seems a bit "Thou Shalt or else" worded. Also seeing as this is very important & you want to reinforce why not bold or print in red text or both?

Moving onto the main body of the tutorial, from layout viewpoint why not make the numbers bold & indent to make them stand out more & where reference is made to other sections the user will be able to identify the indented numbers more easily.

My next observation may be a bit controvershall in respect of greater access. Why not make the .JPG pic's available to all potential users of Winbuilder e.g. Visitors & Members alike, giving greater exposure to the masses! you would need to ask others in authority whether or not this is allowable?

My final comment is also minor in respect of adaptation, what about a menu button for the prospective user to print off your whole Tutorial in a printer friendly fashion. In this way the user has the added option of a printed hard copy to read, as his screen is cluttered with work in progress items?

Amalux I have to confess I never knew that the driver/Base packs existed, & without your Tut would still be ignorant hereafter!!!

I hope that the voting goes in favour of a "Newbies" section in whatever form it eventually takes & I believe your Tutorial is a "very" valuable contribution. Keep up the good work Amalux. You've got my vote! Please! Please! Please! Do not interept these tweaks as crtiticisms because they are not mean't to be, they are merely suggestions:

:cheers: :) B) :cheers: :) B) B) :cheers: :cheers:

Mucho Regards,

ispy :cheers:

Hi ispy!

Let me say, first off, that you are the one that inspired me to write this little ditty! Thank you again for your 'tireless' attempts at motivating us towards more 'newbie friendly' support and guidance. Now, on to your questions and suggestions...

Question: Are you using Win2003 as your OS & this tutorial is geared in the main to those users?


No, I'm using XP SP2 (Pro/Home both work fine) but the files required for BootSDI must come from the W2003 source as detailed in the guide.


If what I am saying is relevant? Could you when you first open the "Tut" have an option via a link to be either taken to the Win2003 tut or to the XP (Pro/Home) Tut. Alternatively you could have a key at the beginning that states that all Black typed text refers to Win2003 Os's, whereas all Blue text refers to XP type Os's. It would depend on how long the eventual tutorial expanded to in this event it could make it overbearing & lengthy. The advantage would be a more generic format, "Kill two birds with one stone", & reduce disfragmentation of tutorials. E.G. Later on all tutorials could be cross referenced to each other in a networked "Newbies" section "if" it transpires.

I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a 1st time winbuilder user & as such do you think an opening introduction paragraph would be beneficial to explain what LiveXP is & briefly its potential benfits to the user. This is really just to confirm to the prospective user he is selecting the right tool for the job so to speak. Also, Psc (Peter) gave me a V.Good tip, only use to start with the "Recommenmded" downloads in respect of the script, on the pretext, the less you download iniatially the less chance it has of going wrong.


Good point, everything in this tutorial refers to a LiveXP project built from an XP (Pro/Home) SP2 source and I will add something to that effect at the beginning of the guide. I understand that Windows 2003 (Server) can be used as source but I have never tried this and is beyond the scope of this tutorial (maybe I'll try this when I get a chance). Peter is my mentor (guru) and friend, I'll leave him to decide what instruction to give and when. This is a tutorial I wanted to try out that would hopefully give newbies a chance to discover the potential of a 'fully loaded' LiveXP build, including, what I think is a very important 'upgrade', the BootSDI (RAM loading) functionality that makes everything work better and faster in the booted PE (and also has additional benefits which the newbie may come to appreciate later).

The opening paragraph is a very good point back it up, this is very often overlooked. Who knows what can happen? However later on down the line why not have a Button/Link as part of the existing text, to say give very brief instructs on the useage of say Trueimage (Commercial) & Driveimage XML to reinforce/consolidate the need for a backup image, just to be safe. This would purely be a branch offshoot.


The backup procedure is pretty simple and self-explanatory once the software is installed (especially with TrueImage) but if needed, I'll add a mini-tut for setting this up later as the need arises.

Moving onto the 2nd paragraph, in the respect of any tips what about using say the Light bulb smiley or some other recognisable icon to quickly identify all "tips".


Too flashy for my taste :cheers:

In reference to the 3rd paragraph in:

What about this as an alternative?

or similair words/text to that effect the former just seems a bit "Thou Shalt or else" worded. Also seeing as this is very important & you want to reinforce why not bold or print in red text or both?


it's meant to keep the 'wild' newbie from getting too creative; at least in the beginning, it's important to just follow exactly what is instructed. Later on, after a few successful builds, the semi-newbie can start experimenting on their own and get into all sorts of trouble :cheers:

Moving onto the main body of the tutorial, from layout viewpoint why not make the numbers bold & indent to make them stand out more & where reference is made to other sections the user will be able to identify the indented numbers more easily


I tried that and it looked a bit 'messy' but who knows, I'll keep trying new layouts to find what works best.

My next observation may be a bit controvershall in respect of greater access. Why not make the .JPG pic's available to all potential users of Winbuilder e.g. Visitors & Members alike, giving greater exposure to the masses! you would need to ask others in authority whether or not this is allowable?


Done to keep bandwidth use under control and to encourage new membership - It's freeeeeeeee!

My final comment is also minor in respect of adaptation, what about a menu button for the prospective user to print off your whole Tutorial in a printer friendly fashion. In this way the user has the added option of a printed hard copy to read, as his screen is cluttered with work in progress items?


A 'printer friendly' button would be kinda cool! I'll look into it (I have no idea if this is even possible)

Amalux I have to confess I never knew that the driver/Base packs existed, & without your Tut would still be ignorant hereafter!!!

I hope that the voting goes in favour of a "Newbies" section in whatever form it eventually takes & I believe your Tutorial is a "very" valuable contribution. Keep up the good work Amalux. You've got my vote! Please! Please! Please! Do not interept these tweaks as crtiticisms because they are not mean't to be, they are merely suggestions:


Glad you got something out of it and I appreciate your suggestions and ideas very much, like I said, you're the one who inspired this tutorial in the first place!

BTW, I notice you tried to delete this post, why? It's OK, I saved it for you for all to see :) It's a good post and there's nothing inappropriate in it, so give yourself a break, we're all here to help each other and learn new things together. Enjoy and have fun! :)

#7 ispy

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 08:37 PM

Hi Amalux :) ,

Pheeew, I thought I might of inadvertantly caused offence in something I had typed. So rather than there be any doubt I severely edited the previous post. Thank goodness for that, I have been busy trawling the rest of Boot-land trying to find anything else that might be considered a bit "off" in the postings that I have previopusly made.

I have removed 3 other posts within the voting for the "newbie" section 2 however, very happy to hear No harm done. Thanks for the notes of reassurance!

Regards,

ispy :(

#8 amalux

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 12:12 AM

Hi amalux,

Good work! I haven't read everything here yet.

But note: Step one doesn't have to be followed with the latest DP mass storage script if downloading fresh off the LiveXP server. Test and see...

Regards,
Galapo.

Hi Galapo,

I've tested it a few times now 'your way' and still getting that same error but rather than go off topic here, I'll post at the proper place for this with screenshots and log (later today). :)

Posted here.

#9 pscEx

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 05:29 PM

Let me join the team of people congratulating to your tutorial!
:)
3 suggestions for smaller changes:
  • The new DP_Mass and BootSdi folders should be recommended as subfolders of %GlobalTemplates%
  • Short explanation of
    • physical path of %GlobalTemplates%
    • 'Global' also for other projects in the same %Basedir%
  • You can remove the W2003 ntdetect.com as necessary file for BootSDI.
    See the latest version 051
Peter

#10 pscEx

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 05:39 PM

5) Click the '+' to the left of 'XP Live CD' to expand the tree view, now expand the 'Basic' section and the 'Shells' section the same way and click on 'Explorer' script; on the right you'll see the options displayed for this script. Leave everything alone except the bottom option should be UNchecked.

This is very important if you use Internet Explorer as your browser, leaving this option checked will cause serious corruption to your host machine making it impossible to use any IE shortcuts or even open your HTML log created by WinBuilder. The only way to undo this corruption is by restoring your hard drive with a backup image; you did follow my advice at the beginning of this tutorial and fully backed up your hard drive, right?

@Galapo
Since this troubles came up, I unchecked the option in the script on nativeEx server.
I suggest that you do the same with LiveXP.

(That holds Amalux working when he removes the unnecessary hint :) )

Peter

#11 amalux

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 06:20 PM

@Galapo
Since this troubles came up, I unchecked the option in the script on nativeEx server.
I suggest that you do the same with LiveXP.

(That holds Amalux working when he removes the unnecessary hint :) )

Peter

Yes, I agree, thank you for this suggestion Peter; as soon as this is done I can remove this step/warning from the guide :(

#12 amalux

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:00 PM

Let me join the team of people congratulating to your tutorial!
:cheers:
3 suggestions for smaller changes:

  • The new DP_Mass and BootSdi folders should be recommended as subfolders of %GlobalTemplates%
  • Short explanation of
    • physical path of %GlobalTemplates%
    • 'Global' also for other projects in the same %Basedir%
  • You can remove the W2003 ntdetect.com as necessary file for BootSDI.
    See the latest version 051
Peter

Thank you Peter! Praise from the teacher to the student is always most welcome :)

The guide is still 'under construction' and I will update/revise as needed.


The new DP_Mass and BootSdi folders should be recommended as subfolders of %GlobalTemplates%

If I understand your suggestion, this would place the files/folders in a directory that doesn't yet exist in a new build :( The idea here was to set up 'static' folders that don't change between builds and exist independant of the build process. Once Galapo gets his 'DP_MassStorage...' script working, this won't be necessary for the DP_Mass files but will always be required for the BootSDI files (unfortunately).


Short explanation of
physical path of %GlobalTemplates%
'Global' also for other projects in the same %Basedir%

%GlobalTemplates% = %GlobalSupport%\Common; %GlobalSupport% = %BaseDir%\Workbench so the path created during build is: "%BaseDir%\Workbench\Common\..." but how will this help the newbie?


You can remove the W2003 ntdetect.com as necessary file for BootSDI.
See the latest version 051

This is great news! Is 051 available on the livexp server yet? I'm having some troubles downloading right now but will test as soon as I can and revise the guide accordingly :cheers:

#13 pscEx

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:16 PM

Thank you Peter! Praise from the teacher to the student is always most welcome :cheers:
Thak you, too. You are one of my best students!
If I understand your suggestion, this would place the files/folders in a directory that doesn't yet exist in a new build :) The idea here was to set up 'static' folders that don't change between builds and exist independant of the build process. Once Galapo gets his 'DP_MassStorage...' script working, this won't be necessary for the DP_Mass files but will always be required for the BootSDI files (unfortunately).
The idea behind that is different:
Under the %Basedir% there are folders containing common / shared files which could be used in different projects.
All scripts using such files should access the common folders rather then define their own support folder anywhere.

%GlobalTemplates% = %GlobalSupport%\Common; %GlobalSupport% = %BaseDir%\Workbench so the path created during build is: "%BaseDir%\Workbench\Common\..." but how will this help the newbie?
He gets some knowledge about WinBuilders tree organization.
But maybe this is a topic for the 'more experienced newbie'

This is great news! Is 051 available on the livexp server yet? I'm having some troubles downloading right now but will test as soon as I can and revise the guide accordingly :(
I do not have access to the LiveXP server, but I'm sure that Galappo will update soon.

You see everything in bold italic blue.
Nothing more here :cheers:

Peter

#14 Galapo

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:49 PM

@Galapo
Since this troubles came up, I unchecked the option in the script on nativeEx server.
I suggest that you do the same with LiveXP.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for letting me know about this -- I'll update the server with this option unchecked for this script when I also update BootSDI. I hadn't noticed this issue myself as I don't use IE as my regular bowser.

Regards,
Galapo.

#15 TheHive

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:08 AM

A suggestion. Instead of deleteing some of the old info. It would be better to use the Strike out option to strike out that info as not necessary but the information would still be able to be read in the future. Just for past reference just incase some one wonders why a certain step is not needed anymore.
Attached File  strikeout.jpg   12.43KB   228 downloads

For example

5) Click the '+' to the left of 'XP Live CD' to expand the tree view, now expand the 'Basic' section and the 'Shells' section the same way and click on 'Explorer' script; on the right you'll see the options displayed for this script. Leave everything alone except the bottom option should be UNchecked.

This is very important if you use Internet Explorer as your browser, leaving this option checked will cause serious corruption to your host machine making it impossible to use any IE shortcuts or even open your HTML log created by WinBuilder. The only way to undo this corruption is by restoring your hard drive with a backup image; you did follow my advice at the beginning of this tutorial and fully backed up your hard drive, right?



#16 amalux

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:26 AM

A suggestion. Instead of deleting some of the old info. It would be better to use the Strike out option to strike out that info as not necessary but the information would still be able to be read in the future. Just for past reference just incase some one wonders why a certain step is not needed anymore.
Attached File  strikeout.jpg   12.43KB   228 downloads

For example

TheHive,

Thanks, yeah, I thought about doing that but it just seemed to confusing and 'messy'; its not just deleting some text here or there, I've been moving whole sections around etc. I had no intention of changing it so much but it just seemed to have too much 'hard stuff' up front that would scare away the newbie before giving the tutorial a chance. Anyway, I'm done now (I think) hopefully giving the BootSDI as an option will make it more appealing and flexible to the most people. Thanks for checking it out and for your input :)

#17 Galapo

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:33 AM

Hi amalux,

I changed the explorer script on the server which has the option mentioned at step #3 unchecked by default.

Regards,
Galapo.

#18 amalux

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:42 AM

Hi amalux,

I changed the explorer script on the server which has the option mentioned at step #3 unchecked by default.

Regards,
Galapo.

Thanks buddy, more editing of the tutorial :)

Seriously, thank you so much for all your fast and friendly service here, it's greatly appreciated by myself and many others! :(

#19 Galapo

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:45 AM

That's OK!

#20 TheHive

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:40 AM

That is a good tutorial. :lol:

#21 ispy

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:34 AM

Hi Amalux :thumbup: ,

I would also like to take this oppertunity to thank you for an excellant Tutorial if there was a six star rating, surely this is one of those occasions where credit is deserved & due!

I know this is an awful admission for a moderator to make but I feel this is one Tutorial that should be pinned but I don't know how you do this. If anyone is dropping in & you can explain how you do this I will give this tutorial pinned status.

Amalux, Great tutorial! I am sure there are many many people who will benefit from your teaching & as the stats & interest testify Please continue to write more you have done Boot-Land & everyone a great service! :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :) :) :) :) :) :)

Regards,

ispy :)

#22 TheHive

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:48 AM

Youre topic has been pinned. I think it deserves it.
I like the fact that you have inlcuded a stable Project of different sizes for peoples needs.
Once they get there comfort zones warmed up they can download updated projects and try some of the other ones available.

#23 amalux

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:26 AM

Hi Amalux :thumbup: ,

I would also like to take this oppertunity to thank you for an excellant Tutorial if there was a six star rating, surely this is one of those occasions where credit is deserved & due!

I know this is an awful admission for a moderator to make but I feel this is one Tutorial that should be pinned but I don't know how you do this. If anyone is dropping in & you can explain how you do this I will give this tutorial pinned status.

Amalux, Great tutorial! I am sure there are many many people who will benefit from your teaching as the stats & interest testify Please continue to write more you have done Boot-Land & everyone a great service! :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :) :) :) :) :) :thumbup: :)

Regards,

ispy :)

:) Aww, shucks; you're embarrassing me :)

Seriously, thank you ispy! You inspired this whole section which is a big success and you have continued to grace boot-land with your positive energy and your good heart comes across in all you do. Thank you my friend! :)

#24 amalux

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:30 AM

Youre topic has been pinned. I think it deserves it.
I like the fact that you have inlcuded a stable Project of different sizes for peoples needs.
Once they get there comfort zones warmed up they can download updated projects and try some of the other ones available.

Cool, pinned! Now I don't have to respond to keep it 'on top' :lol: :thumbup:

Thanks buddy, glad it's helpful! :thumbup:

#25 TheHive

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 05:13 AM

Suggestion:
If a project is updated can you add the dated it was updated:

For example
lx41208pg The 'Deluxe' updated with even more stuff! approx. 90MB (~210MB img)
lx41208pg The 'Deluxe' updated 05-29-08 with even more stuff! approx. 90MB (~210MB img)

Or something similar.

Thanks!