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WIMUtil.exe - legal situation


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#1 pecd.net

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 01:59 PM

Hi all,

i saw that wimutil.exe is an autoitscrit that contains three MS files (wimfltr.inf,wimfltr.sys,wimgapi.dll).
Wimutil.exe is distributed in vistaPE and maybe in other projects (?), but distributing those files is not allowed, or is it?

For me the legal status is important.

Does anyone have mor info on this?

Thanks

Markus

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 02:04 PM

Hmmm, maybe I have found a "fan" :)

Please take some time (and patience) to read this thread:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3124

...and tell me what you think...:)

:)

jaclaz

#3 MedEvil

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 03:09 PM

jaclaz don't want to spoil the happiest day of your life :), but ctmag is creating a VistaPE, he then intends to 'sell' to CT magazine.
So his interest in legality is not the same as yours.

:)

#4 was_jaclaz

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 05:35 PM

jaclaz don't want to spoil the happiest day of your life :), but ctmag is creating a VistaPE, he then intends to 'sell' to CT magazine.
So his interest in legality is not the same as yours.

:)


Rest assured, apart from the fact that this does not represent the happiest day in my life, I guess you need to invent something far more witty to be able to spoil ANY of my days. :)

jaclaz

#5 pecd.net

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 06:12 PM

@jaclaz
Even if MedEvil thinks my interest in legality would be different to your, i believe we pretty much have the same point. Especially the attched files make it difficult to be sure everything is OK and i always work hard with all my projects to make them free from any legal issues and i always release all my work (even the work for the computermagzine) with sourcecode under gpl license.

@MedEvil
I have the feeling you dislike what i do. Several of your comments sound like that. Please feel free to tell me what (you think) i am doing wrong, maybe we can work out a way to better cooperate. I always try to give back to the community and i don't see why you belive that what i do is so much different from what you do.

@all
no one knows details on where to get the files mentiones in the first post (other downloads than waik) and if there is a license that allows redistribution?

#6 Nuno Brito

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 08:47 PM

At the moment I don't know any non-ms alternative to fully manage WIM or SDI alike proprietary files.

I believe this limitation can be overcome by providing the necessary functions as internal wb commands since we have the necessary conditions to avoid installing drivers of any sort.

At the moment I'm busy with raw hive support but will try to soon address SDI/WIM afterwards.

USB tools replacement should require administrative permissions - or is it possible to make changes on partitions (USB drives) with limited guest permissions?

Good points raised, let's work to solve them.

:)

#7 MedEvil

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 08:49 PM

@MedEvil
I have the feeling you dislike what i do. Several of your comments sound like that. Please feel free to tell me what (you think) i am doing wrong, maybe we can work out a way to better cooperate. I always try to give back to the community and i don't see why you belive that what i do is so much different from what you do.

I have a general problem with people taking advantage of the good will and good intentions of others.
We constantly have people comming here, who want to use our work, waste out spare time to make money for themselfs.
It should go without saying, imo, that community projects are not to be used comercialy in any way.
And about giving back to the community.
I work in a software company and know exactly how much development of a new product costs. I have yet to hear from a single case, where someone gave ample compensation back to a comunity!

Luckily, in this case it's not my problem, but if i were Nightman, i would be royally pissed, that you will get payed for something, that will most likely be more than 90% his work.

#8 Holger

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 10:43 PM

Very interesting are the 2 files "wdsimage.dll" and "wdscore.dll" which are directly on the Vista-DVD under sources and which have included some interesting API functions.
Just take a look into these files.
Maybe somebody will find a away to first extract the 'needed' files from the VistaDVD with the help of these Dlls and then to the other stuff after that.
"Dll Export Viewer" from "nirsoft.net" is a good tool to see the included functions.
I'm just wondering - maybe this was discussed before - so if not: didn't ask you by youself how Windows setup extract the files from the boot.wim and install.wim during the Boot/Install!?
Greets
Holger

#9 Nuno Brito

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 12:29 AM

Good point, I remember denis123123 asking a similar question some time ago but you went further than him and actually found the responsible files.

:)

#10 Galapo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 12:45 AM

@all
no one knows details on where to get the files mentiones in the first post (other downloads than waik) and if there is a license that allows redistribution?


wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys may be obtained through the following download:

http://www.microsoft...;DisplayLang=en

wimgapi.dll, as you say, comes with waik.

There's a couple of scripts in LiveXP which require these three files. They are not supplied with the project -- the end-user needs to have made the relevant downloads and supply the necessary files. In the case of wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys this could be automated with wget.

Regards,
Galapo.

#11 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:35 AM

We constantly have people comming here, who want to use our work, waste out spare time to make money for themselfs.
It should go without saying, imo, that community projects are not to be used comercialy in any way.


Well first i assume you have so much spare time (as you are always posting every day many posts) that you can give it away freely:-)
Second, Nuno as well as Nightman were asked before i started work and both agreed that i might use their work. They could have easily said no, but they didn't (Thanks again).

When I scan the VPE1.2 files for ""MedEvil" I only find 1 reference (Nuno 45, Nightman 114)

Title=Opera 9.50 Internet BrowserAuthor=NightMan, fixed the startup from CD. MedEvil
If you ask me to remove that fix, i will gladly do that. If you don't want to help with my project it is your choice, as it is everyones choice at the forum. I told everyone (right form the start) what i am doing and every forum member can decide for himself.

Luckily, in this case it's not my problem, but if i were Nightman, i would be royally pissed, that you will get payed for something, that will most likely be more than 90% his work.


Well, as said before i asked him and he said "yes" and when the project is done it will be 50% Nunos work and 25% Nightmans work (and both also got a lot of help from the community). The rest well be my work, with help from the community.

For me this discussion ends here.
If you were really interested in a "constructive" discussion you would have picked up my offer to work out a way to get along. It can be clearly seen (from many other "constructive" post of you) that your "general problem" goes far beyond me or my work. Maybe you lost fun in working on bootcds or whatever, but that has nothing todo with me.

Markus

#12 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:38 AM

wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys may be obtained through the following download:

http://www.microsoft...;DisplayLang=en

wimgapi.dll, as you say, comes with waik.

There's a couple of scripts in LiveXP which require these three files. They are not supplied with the project -- the end-user needs to have made the relevant downloads and supply the necessary files. In the case of wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys this could be automated with wget.

Regards,
Galapo.


Thanks a lot. This means, the user has to do it by hand or we have to find a way without wimgapi.dll.

#13 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:43 AM

USB tools replacement should require administrative permissions - or is it possible to make changes on partitions (USB drives) with limited guest permissions?


Hmm you are talking about the HP file here? The current files will nee admin rights, too.

I never tried it, but it would be really nice to have usb support without 3rd party files.

#14 Galapo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:45 AM

Thanks a lot. This means, the user has to do it by hand or we have to find a way without wimgapi.dll.


Exactly. wimgapi.dll is the sticking point.

Now, since the LiveXP scripts requiring these files are optional in the sense they aren't needed to create a working PE, it isn't an issue to have the user provide the files if they want to use the optional scripts needing the files. For VistaPE, I presume the files are needed to produce a working PE. And before that happens, the user has to supply the files. Not extactly a "neat" situation, but one that is legal though. Holger might be on to something that opens up another option for you however.

Regards,
Galapo.

#15 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 06:16 AM

Holger might be on to something that opens up another option for you however.


Nuno also wrote that he will look into that...

#16 was_jaclaz

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 07:56 AM

Hmm you are talking about the HP file here? The current files will nee admin rights, too.

I never tried it, but it would be really nice to have usb support without 3rd party files.


Are we talking of the HP USB formatting tool here? :)

jaclaz

#17 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 10:45 AM

I think yes. This tool may not be redistributed and we are looking for an free replacement...

#18 was_jaclaz

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 11:40 AM

I think yes. This tool may not be redistributed and we are looking for an free replacement...


If any programmer would like to take the challenge, I already have all the needed info (and more :)) and I actually put together some batch files (the only thing I am familiar with) that can "replace" the HP USB formatting utility:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3191
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5000

But since you are at the moment "focused" on Vista, there is NO need for any "new" utility, you can use allright DISKPART (the version that comes with Vista does work with USB drives):
http://blogs.msdn.co...from-vista.aspx

and, if needed, add MBRFIX:
http://www.sysint.no...ting/mbrfix.htm
http://www.sysint.no...62/Default.aspx
(to write the NT/2K/XP/2003 MBR code replacing VISTA one)
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4476

and, if needed, a very simple batch to apply the "quick and dirty hack" HP made:
http://www.boot-land...opic=2246&st=15

Just for the record, there is also ANOTHER reason why distributing the HPUSBFW.EXE is questionable, it contains DOS 7.1 system files:
http://www.boot-land...opic=4902&st=48

But, if the good Linux guys do use a "hidden download" (thus working around the non-redistribute catch), I guess that it can be done by Winbuilder too, though I personally DO NOT like ANYTHING that downloads things without me knowing.

:)

jaclaz

#19 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 12:21 PM

Thank you, very helpful answer...

I need a version that also works with xp, as WB will probaly be used under xp and vista and the diskpart from xp does not work afaik.

I think i will take care of this later and then i might come back to you. Thanks again.

#20 was_jaclaz

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 02:20 PM

I need a version that also works with xp, as WB will probaly be used under xp and vista and the diskpart from xp does not work afaik.


Yep, but the point could also be Does VISTA diskpart.exe work in XP, using any "trick"? :), I mean anyone wanting to build a VistaPE, even on a 2K/XP/2003 platform, should have a source Vista DVD anyway, unless the build is made just from the WAIK, but maybe diskpart.exe is in the WAIK too.

jaclaz

#21 pecd.net

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 02:34 PM

interesting point...will investigate as i can find the time...thanks

#22 Galapo

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 05:08 AM

wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys may be obtained through the following download:

http://www.microsoft...;DisplayLang=en

wimgapi.dll, as you say, comes with waik.


Unfortunately, I made a mistake about what I wrote. fltmgr.sys and fltlib.dll may be obtained through the download indicated (needed to replace xp source sometimes). So wimgapi.dll as well as wimfltr.inf and wimfltr.sys are obtained from WAIK.

Sorry,
Galapo.

#23 booty#1

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 05:19 PM

BTW: We are not the only one having problems with this tree files. I just installed vLite in a clean VM for upgrading my Vista installation DVD (on my real system vLite always creates a BSOD) and on first start-up vLite asks for exactly the same files.
The possible alternatives it presents are: 1. Download WAIK or 2. provide the three files manually by copying them into the vLite directory.

booty#1




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