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VOTE NOW: WAIK or Vista DVD - what do you use as VistaPE source?


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Poll: Sourcefiles for building VistaPE (42 member(s) have cast votes)

What sourcefiles do you use for building VistaPE ?

  1. Windows Automated Installation Kit (WAIK) SP0 (2 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  2. Windows Automated Installation Kit (WAIK) SP1 (4 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  3. Vista SP0 files on HD (8 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  4. Vista SP1 files on HD (14 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  5. Vista SP0 DVD in DVD drive (4 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  6. Vista SP1 DVD in DVD drive (8 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  7. other (2 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

Vote

#1 pecd.net

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:11 PM

Hello,

what are the disadvantages from building vistape from waik instead of a Vista DVD?

Please help me make a complete list.

Thanks in advance,
Markus

TOPIC CLOSED: the longer we wait the results will go to SP1. To get a real snapshot of the time the topic was started i now close it. Thanks for your votes and comments!

#2 pecd.net

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:29 PM

OK, i will start the list myself:-)

Stuff that does not work when building from WAIK
  • explorer.exe as shell
  • Internet Explorer 7
  • WSH/MDAC/HTA/WMI/XML (Common Components)
  • MMC
  • RemoteDesktop Client
  • Windows Vista Recovery Environment
  • Standard VGA Graphics Adapter + Monitors
  • I believe there are less drivers in the waik than in the real Vista DVD (correct?)
  • map network drive GUI elements (booty#1)
  • You need to do a lengthy 1Gb download from the MS site and this step also requires "clients" to run a Windows Genuine Machine (WGA restrictions) (Nuno Brito)
  • WAIK is not portable since it is required to be installed on your machine along with the new MS XML services (Nuno Brito)
  • not working with ubuntu support (in development 06/2008) (Nuno Brito)
  • PeNetCfg request "TCP/IP Registry Compatibility" (tcpipreg.sys) (NightMan)
  • Extended PnP (NightMan)
  • CPL (NightMan)
  • Japanese/Korean IME (NightMan)
  • File Sharing (NightMan)
  • Screen Saver (NightMan)
Anything else?

Edit: Updated from the posts and mails I got

#3 booty#1

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 04:09 PM

AFAIR the map network drive GUI elements (net.exe use ... still works) and creating file shares in the VistaPE environment

#4 pecd.net

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 08:13 AM

Nothing else? Bump:-)

#5 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 12:14 PM

..
what are the disadvantages from building vistape from waik instead of a Vista DVD?
..


WAIK disadvantages:
  • You need to do a lengthy 1Gb download from the MS site and this step also requires "clients" to run a Windows Genuine Machine (WGA restrictions)
  • WAIK is not portable since it is required to be installed on your machine along with the new MS XML services
  • No option to use explorer as shell and this makes UI a bit less user friendly
  • Extra components like the ones that come bundled inside the Windows DVD can't be included
  • It's easier to use a Windows Vista DVD, just copy the files to disk and build from anywhere needed.
These are the reasons why I currently stick with Windows Vista DVD's as source for VistaPE

There is another special reason, I would like to see VistaPE being built inside a Ubuntu machine since winbuilder support for this platform is being added and I don't think that the WAIK would be a good source under these conditions.

:)

#6 MedEvil

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 01:01 PM

Unless you wanna do something that's way out of the league of home or desktop use. You just have to find a replacement Shell and file browser.

:)

PS: You should ask Alanf. He has a project called PE2.1. It's a PE build from Waik only. If anyone knows what's missing, i guess it's him.

#7 pecd.net

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:06 AM

Updated Post #1 with info from this thread and with info from nightman.

I also took the freedom to pin this topic as I think it might be useful info for others as well (if someone disagrees, just remove the pin)

#8 pecd.net

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:12 AM

OK, now we know what the disadvantages of the WAIK are. But does anybody really use it? I opened a Poll, please let me know what sourcefiles you use, Thanks!

#9 booty#1

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:45 AM

I prefer WAIK because it doesn't give me a headache when thinking about license problematic. AFAIR with WAIK-based compilations you have the permission to recover a Windows PC. That's exactly what i need.

booty#1

#10 Nuno Brito

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:46 AM

Good idea.

Already voted (Vista SP1 install files on disk), let's see the results within the next days.

:)

#11 pecd.net

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:56 PM

PS: You should ask Alanf. He has a project called PE2.1. It's a PE build from Waik only. If anyone knows what's missing, i guess it's him.


Hmm, could not find his nickname on the board...where can i find him?

#12 pscEx

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:06 PM

Hmm, could not find his nickname on the board...where can i find him?


@Jaclaz

That seems to be a question for you.
He really disappeared!

OOps,

Medevil confused me, too!

The name is Allanf!

Peter

#13 Nuno Brito

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:47 PM

Don't worry I got confused and mixed Allanf with JonF once when replying to one of his topics but now that I think about it, this starts to be somewhat usual around here.. :)

Peter also confused my name today..
http://www.boot-land...?...ost&p=38280

-----

Back on topic

Why not pointing directly to Allan's project?

Look here to read more about pe21: http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4431

His project is completely based on WAIK - one big advantage - if the user already has the WAIK installed on his system then all that is required to do is press the play button for a one-click project build experience.

:)

#14 pecd.net

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 12:55 PM

Hmm, one out of seven use waik...that is not much...

Come on guys, let us know what you use, VOTE!

#15 booty#1

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:00 PM

Come on guys, let us know what you use, VOTE!

May be we should change the topic title to something more "attractive"?

What about VOTE NOW: WAIK or Vista DVD - what do you use as VistaPE source?

booty#1

#16 pscEx

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:13 PM

I do not have any opinion, because I never was able to build a bootable VistaPE.

See here

As I'm busy with other things, I want to get a runnable project, not build the project by try and error.

Peter

#17 MedEvil

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:34 PM

I tryed building with both sources last year. The result was in both cases nothing i cared to use. So i went back to XP based projects.

:)

#18 booty#1

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:41 PM

I have to admit that the last VistaPE version I really liked was 008 - it was plain and simple. No special API to learn, just the WinBuilder commands.

BTW: I just remember one of the most important reason for installing WAIK:
It installs peimg.exe. That tool is the only "really working" way for installing new drivers into VistaPE (peimg.exe /inf ...).
All the other ways I have tried had more disadvantages than advantages (if they worked at all).

booty#1

#19 pecd.net

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:03 PM

@booty#1
Driver: I think with v12 it can be done without peimg but it is still not clear enough for everyone to use...we have to improve that...

@MedEvil
@PSC

Thank you for your opinion, its really important news. I thought it was only me who was not happy with the current quality/state of the VistaPE Project, but if i understand you right there are others as well.

@PSC
I did not yet read the complete link you gave, will read it later

@all
As some of you know i try to create a VistaPE base project for ct magazine germany (www.heise.de/ct) and so my main focus is on usability and stability for our readers. VistaPE can currently not deliver this in its current state, but my task is to create something vista based, as we already have a XP based version.

This is in no way meant as complaining about what Nighman already achieved, but as he is no longer very active in the forum and as he is (as far as i know) working on a lot of improvements of the inner works of VPE, it seems to me he has no time to really work on the complete package.

I was thinking of taking the current state and create a new fork with stability and usability in mind, and not so much working on new features. But i was reluctant doing so, becuause i am unsure if NightMan is happy with this.

What do you think is the best way to go from here?

#20 pscEx

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:11 PM

@MedEvil
@PSC

Thank you for your opinion, its really important news. I thought it was only me who was not happy with the current quality/state of the VistaPE Project, but if i understand you right there are others as well.

The common of us three is 'German'
???

Peter

#21 pscEx

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:19 PM

This is in no way meant as complaining about what Nighman already achieved, but as he is no longer very active in the forum and as he is (as far as i know) working on a lot of improvements of the inner works of VPE, it seems to me he has no time to really work on the complete package.

I was thinking of taking the current state and create a new fork with stability and usability in mind, and not so much working on new features. But i was reluctant doing so, becuause i am unsure if NightMan is happy with this.

What do you think is the best way to go from here?

If you try to create a new VistaPE project with more forum's member interaction and more view to native languages, I would be on board!


Peter

#22 pecd.net

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:36 PM

The common of us three is 'German'
???

Peter


Sorry, did not understand what you mean...yes we all are german, and it seems we all agree here:-)
Maybe it because auf the "German Gründlichkeit" :-)

#23 pecd.net

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:41 PM

If you try to create a new VistaPE project with more forum's member interaction and more view to native languages, I would be on board!
Peter


good to hear...

On the one hand i don't want to reinvent the wheel, and on the other hand i don't see how my goals fit in with the current VPE state...

And most important:
As i am new here, i really don't want to rush in and tell anyone how he/she sould do it...you guys are working on this for years, i just started with WB a few weeks ago (but i have several year experience with BartPE). Everything that is done here deserves deepest respect, for most of us it is a hobby project and keeping this in mind a lot was achieved already.

#24 booty#1

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:49 PM

@ctmag:

It's strange. I had a currently a déjà vu while reading your plans. Last year it was me asking around what we can do after nightman's disappearing (he was busy/away from mid of May to mid of August).
Then he came back and brought a new version with him. Then I stopped thinking about that topic...

Anyway you have my support for a new VistaPE branch, independent of the used source (only WAIK, DVD or both).

booty#1

#25 pscEx

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:56 PM

Sorry, did not understand what you mean...yes we all are german, and it seems we all agree here:-)
Maybe it because auf the "German Gründlichkeit" :-)

I meant that some troubles, MedEvil and me have had, may depend on the language of the source.

Peter




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