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FreeDOS network + Arachne?


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#1 kcom

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 08:03 PM

Currently I know only the Bart network bootdisk. It`s not bad but I can`t extract the needed commands from config.sys and autoexec.bat so I can use it in my own DOS.

I have network for DOS already running, but I am out of conventional memory to start Arachne and did try already lots of tweaks to load it high with no success.

Could someone supply please either:
- config.sys + autoexec.bat
- OR link to some VMware / floppy / iso / QEmu / VirtualBox Image with a working Freedos + network + Arachne?

#2 MedEvil

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 08:13 PM

You're out of conventional memory with just Network?
How did you do that?

Post your config.sys and autoexec.bat

:lol:

#3 kcom

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 09:21 PM

The system starts, but Arachne complains about to less conventional memory.

In the config files isn`t much. I made it for testing as minimal as possible to avoid having more then one problem at the same time.

config.sys:
FILES=20

!COUNTRY=001,858,C:\FDOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS 

!SET lang=DE 

!LASTDRIVE=Z

!BUFFERS=20	 

!FILES=40

!DOS=HIGH,UMB

!DOSDATA=UMB

!set dircmd=/ogn /4

DOS=HIGH,UMB

DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE 

DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=TEST



rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\FDOS\bin\xdma.sys 

rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\FDOS\bin\xcdrom.sys /d:FDCD0001 

rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\FDOS\bin\cdrcache.sys FDCD0001 CDRCACH0 6000 

REM INSTALL=C:\FDOS\BIN\BLACKOUT.EXE 

REM INSTALL=C:\FDOS\BIN\BANNER1.COM 

rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\FDOS\BIN\MORESYS.SYS 

SHELLHIGH=C:\FDOS\bin\command.com C:\FDOS\bin /E:1024 /P=C:\autoexec.bat

rem INSTALLHIGH=C:\FDOS\bin\lbacache.com 6000 TUNS 



devicehigh=C:\NET\ifshlp.sys



LASTDRIVE=Z

autoexec.bat:
pause

rem @echo off 

SET dosdir=C:\FDOS

REM C:\FDOS\BIN\BANNER2 

REM C:\FDOS\BIN\BLACKOUT 

set PATH=C:\NET;%dosdir%\bin

set NLSPATH=%dosdir%\NLS 

set HELPPATH=%dosdir%\HELP

set temp=%dosdir%\temp

set tmp=%dosdir%\temp

SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330

REM ShsuCDhd /QQ /F:C:\FDBOOTCD.ISO

REM LH VIAUDIO

REM LH VIAFMTSR

rem FDAPM APMDOS

rem LH DISPLAY CON=(EGA,,1)

rem MODE CON CP PREP=((858) C:\FDOS\cpi\EGA.CPX)

rem LH MODE CON CP SEL=858

rem if "%config%"=="2" LH SHARE

rem if not "%config%"=="4" ShsuCDX /QQ /~ /D:?FDCD0002 /D:?FDCD0003 /D:?CDRCACH0

SET CFGFILE=C:\fdconfig.sys 

LH KEYB GR,,keyboard.sys  

pause

echo type HELP to get support on commands and navigation

echo.

echo Welcome to FreeDOS

echo.

mouse 

rem C:\FDOS\drivers\net\crynwr\pcntpk int=0x60 

SET WATTCP.CFG=%DOSDIR%\BIN

rem lh doslfn 

rem lh peruse /X6000



pause



lh C:\NET\net initialize

C:\NET\netbind.com

lh C:\NET\umb.com

lh C:\NET\tcptsr.exe

lh C:\NET\tinyrfc.exe

lh C:\NET\nmtsr.exe

C:\NET\emsbfr.exe

lh C:\NET\net start

and here is mem /c /p
Module im ersten MB:



  Name		   Total		 Konventioneller	Oberer Speicher

  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------

  SYSTEM	  16,544   (16K)	 10,224   (10K)	  6,320	(6K)

  HIMEM		2,704	(3K)	  2,704	(3K)		  0	(0K)

  EMM386	   3,632	(4K)	  3,632	(4K)		  0	(0K)

  COMMAND	  4,224	(4K)	  3,184	(3K)	  1,040	(1K)

  C:\NET\P	27,968   (27K)	 27,968   (27K)		  0	(0K)

  TCPTSR	  76,784   (75K)	 76,784   (75K)		  0	(0K)

  TINYRFC	 18,496   (18K)		272	(0K)	 18,224   (18K)

  REDIR	  101,824   (99K)	 87,200   (85K)	 14,624   (14K)

  IFSHLP	   3,968	(4K)		  0	(0K)	  3,968	(4K)

  KEYB		 1,472	(1K)		  0	(0K)	  1,472	(1K)

  PROTMAN		400	(0K)		  0	(0K)		400	(0K)

  TCPDRV	   1,328	(1K)		  0	(0K)	  1,328	(1K)

  NEMM		   672	(1K)		  0	(0K)		672	(1K)

  KEYBDATA	 1,344	(1K)		  0	(0K)	  1,344	(1K)

  UMB			688	(1K)		  0	(0K)		688	(1K)

  MOUSE		3,328	(3K)		  0	(0K)	  3,328	(3K)

  Frei	   477,760  (467K)	441,056  (431K)	 36,704   (36K)



Speicherart		Total	  Belegt	  Frei

Mit <Enter> n„chsten Schirm anzeigen oder mit <Esc> abbrechen . . .

----------------  --------   --------   --------

Konventionell		 638K	   207K	   431K

Hoch				   88K		52K		36K

Reserviert			298K	   298K		 0K

Extended &#40;XMS&#41;	129,984K	 1,676K   128,308K

----------------  --------   --------   --------

Gesamt			131,008K	 2,233K   128,775K



Gesamt unter 1 MB	 726K	   259K	   467K



Gr”sstes ausfhrbares Programm		431K &#40;441,040 bytes&#41;

Gr”sster freier UMB					19K &#40; 19,120 bytes&#41;

FreeDOS verwendet die HMA.

I think it`s quite complicated to solve these days. So I thought if anyone could sponsor me with his config files it could help a lot.

#4 MedEvil

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:06 PM

I see the following problems:

C:\NET\P 27,968 (27K) 27,968 (27K) 0 (0K)
TCPTSR 76,784 (75K) 76,784 (75K) 0 (0K)

Are clearly not loaded high.

And where the heck comes Redir from? It's not started in config.sys or autoexec.bat.

REDIR 101,824 (99K) 87,200 (85K) 14,624 (14K)


At last, though i'm not familiar with FreeDOS, it's usually nonsense to have himem.exe and emm386.exe in a boot disk. Decide for extended or expanded memory.

:lol:


PS: How much conventional memory does a version of the current Arachne need?

#5 kcom

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:51 PM

Are clearly not loaded high.

Yes. But you can`t just write LH before any command. I did try it but them may not be loaded then. On google many people confirm that.

(LH C:\NET\netbind.com --> Error: PROTMAN$ can not be executed in upper memory.)

At last, though i'm not familiar with FreeDOS, it's usually nonsense to have himem.exe and emm386.exe in a boot disk. Decide for extended or expanded memory.

My experience is:
- rem before himem -> emm386 does not load -> nothing will be load high because no hma available
- OR rem before emm386 -> himem will load -> nothing will load in high because no hma availble

But I am not a dos expert. However, I need to see a working config.

How much conventional memory does a version of the current Arachne need?

Much.... To much... 425 KB !
http://browser.arachne.cz/system.shtml
On my comp it says 78048 bytes missing.

Btw just to exclude a possible error: if I don`t load the network related stuff I CAN start Arachne without problems.

I made now an extra lan.bat for the network related stuff.
C&#58;\NET\net initialize

C&#58;\NET\netbind.com

lh C&#58;\NET\umb.com

lh C&#58;\NET\tcptsr.exe

lh C&#58;\NET\tinyrfc.exe

rem lh C&#58;\NET\nmtsr.exe

rem C&#58;\NET\emsbfr.exe

lh C&#58;\NET\net start

And where the heck comes Redir from? It's not started in config.sys or autoexec.bat.

That`s an interesting question. It only comes when I load the network related stuff in autoexec.bat. Otherwise not. Therefore I made some tests to find this out.

After command ... it is in mem /c /p
(1) C:\NET\net initialize == C:\NET (27 K of conventional)
(2) C:\NET\netbind.com == PROTMAN (400 byte, only upper)
+ == tcpdrv (1 k, only upper)
+ == nemm (600 byte, only upper)
(3) lh C:\NET\umb.com == umb (600 byte, only upper)
(4) lh C:\NET\tcptsr.exe == tcpstr (75 K of conventional)
(5) lh C:\NET\tinyrfc.exe == tinyrfc (200 byte low and 19 K upper)
(6) lh C:\NET\net start == redir (85 K of conventional)

#6 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:10 AM

Yes. But you can`t just write LH before any command.

:lol:I know that, but since you wrote LH before it, i thought i point out that it didn't work.

My experience is:
- rem before himem -> emm386 does not load -> nothing will be load high because no hma available
- OR rem before emm386 -> himem will load -> nothing will load in high because no hma availble

I take your word for it, that it works this way with FreeDOS.

Much.... To much... 425 KB !
http://browser.arachne.cz/system.shtml
On my comp it says 78048 bytes missing.

That's a outdated version of Arachne. Since then, some other guys keep developing Arachne.
I also have the feeling that you're going wrong about the network thing. Didn't Arachne come with its own network tools? Wasn't all that was still needed the driver for the NIC?

Remembered anyhow, where you should be able to find a working image. The Ultimate Boot CD contains among other things a floppy image of Arachne.

:lol:

#7 kcom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:39 AM

I take your word for it, that it works this way with FreeDOS.

At least as far I know. You using DR DOS or DOS 7 or nothing or what?
I would also change kernel to DR DOS...

That's a outdated version of Arachne. Since then, some other guys keep developing Arachne.

Yes, but the new page don`t has any informations about that. I don`t think it will need more/less conventional memory now. I did try that arachne version that comes with freedos and the newest one from that guy.

I also have the feeling that you're going wrong about the network thing.

Possible.

Didn't Arachne come with its own network tools? Wasn't all that was still needed the driver for the NIC?

Afaik Arachne has it`s own driver for legacy dial up modem.

But I have lan/dhcp (VMware) and adsl/pppoe (real pc).

If you are on lan/dhcp you need your own packet driver and Arachne will detect this. The network bootdisk from Bart starts the msclient, but he uses modboot and it`s to difficult to figure out his networking related commands. He also uses ms-dos 7.1, maybe this has a better memory management.

However, I can`t believe that all people who use Arachne are on dial up modem or need to use ms-dos 7.1.

Remembered anyhow, where you should be able to find a working image.

The Ultimate Boot CD contains among other things a floppy image of Arachne.

Looks like a cool project. Will check it out....

Gnah... :lol: It uses compression/modboot. It`s like reverse engeenering to see how the original autoexec.bat/config.sys need to look like. But it works in VMware out of the box.

#8 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:30 PM

It has been something like 10 years that i last did a comparison of different DOS.
Back then i had the choice between FreeDOS, MSDOS and DRDOS.
FreeDOS wasn't usable at the time and MSDOS files were always a couple of times the size of its DRDOS counterparts. So i settled for DRDOS 7.01 for Bootfloppies.

But i have been told that, IBMs PCDOS is also quite good.

:lol:

#9 kcom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

Ok, now it hit me. My try was completely wrong. The msclient is just needed for networking with Windows.

Now in VMware I can use Arachne. Just need to load the paket driver deployed by FreeDOS. Arachne boots up using dhcp. Fine...

Now I am just interested if I get it to dial up using adsl.

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 03:29 PM

Now I am just interested if I get it to dial up using adsl.

PPoE exists for DOS, but just if the MODEM is connected via a NIC.

:lol:


PS: Do you have now your very own boot disk or did you use a prefabricated one?

#11 kcom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 05:53 PM

PPoE exists for DOS, but just if the MODEM is connected via a NIC.

If NIC = network interface card aka network card aka onboard lan chip... Then yes. My dsl (pppoe) modem is connected by a lan port.

I know only pepa for DSL. It`s kinda complicated and shareware, I am looking for freeware. People say it`s the only one for DOS but if you know a better tool...

Do you have now your very own boot disk or did you use a prefabricated one?

Most of the time I use my flash drive for booting. Often I am looking into premade disks to see how them implement things and to test them but my real DOS operating system is made from scratch. Otherwise it`s to much unknown stuff and I can`t look through.

#12 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 06:28 PM

If NIC = network interface card aka network card aka onboard lan chip... Then yes. My dsl (pppoe) modem is connected by a lan port.

I know only pepa for DSL. It`s kinda complicated and shareware, I am looking for freeware. People say it`s the only one for DOS but if you know a better tool...

No, i only know that it can be done, never cared about the how, since i have a USB-DSL-MODEM

Most of the time I use my flash drive for booting. Often I am looking into premade disks to see how them implement things and to test them but my real DOS operating system is made from scratch. Otherwise it`s to much unknown stuff and I can`t look through.

Little misunderstanding. Weren't you building a FreeDOS bootdisk(Floppy) with Network and Arachne?

:lol:

#13 kcom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 08:13 PM

Little misunderstanding. Weren't you building a FreeDOS bootdisk(Floppy) with Network and Arachne?

I have DOS on flash and I "pimp my DOS" :lol: as much as possible. Lot`s of diagnose/recovery/emergency/backup tools will be added, ntfs4dos, browser... It`s pretty nice in case I messed up my normal Windows installation. ubcd4win needs pretty long to load and there are some glichtes.

Windows/Ubuntu need to boot up 2-4 (?? or whatever) min... DOS is ready in seconds. In case "I just want to look DVD / movie / music / quick lock at website" I apprecicate it very much if this can be done in seconds instant of minutes.

#14 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 08:32 PM

What do you think about hosting your project here at boot-land?
I'm sure there are a lot of people here interested, in seeing how far a DOS can be boosted. Give VistaPE a run for it's money! :lol:

:thumbup:

#15 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:55 PM

I know only pepa for DSL. It`s kinda complicated and shareware, I am looking for freeware. People say it`s the only one for DOS but if you know a better tool...

Just remembered cfos. It's not freeware, but pretty cheap and could always do things, no other driver could do. But if DSL in DOS is one of them, i don't know. At least the setup should be easy. (good old german engeneering :lol:)

:thumbup:

#16 kcom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:05 PM

I'm sure there are a lot of people here interested, in seeing how far a DOS can be boosted. Give VistaPE a run for it's money!

Uhm are there really people interested? :lol:

Also lots of features will stay exclusive for Windows / Linux.

What do you think about hosting your project here at boot-land?

Interesting idea.

I did always thought about deploying a premade whatever.image (VMware / VirtualBox / for USB flash drive / Bochs / DosBox) with all needed drivers, utility's, classic applications and classic games. Just for nostalgia / fun / historic / speed reasons.

But most of the software I am using may be downloaded legal and used legal for personal use. Redistributing is not allowed. Hardware autodetection and autodownlaod stuff from the internet is just a dream and behind my capability.

A useful thing I could do is writing a summary of things I had success and things I know off. Here it is so far:
- loading allmost all drivers into high memory
- great shell with autocomplete and doskey
- freeware norton commander replacement (ufo)
- ramdrive
- initialize CD-ROM
- setting up networking for VMware with dhcp and Arachne web browser
- multi tasking
- Great hardware analyis tools (aida16, nssi, config, hwinfo) (better then Windows analysis tools, them know only what Windows is telling them but DOS has direct hardware access)
- fat32 / long filenames (enhanced DR-DOS, FreeDOS and MS-DOS 7 only)
- ntfs4dos read and write access from avira (some assembler geek could post some instructions to get ride of the nagscreen)
- playing dvd (afaik until now only shareware)
- mp3 and so on
- setting up network with Windows
- backup / restore of MBR
- getting sound to work in VMware (sb16, but not much games run)
- getting sound to work on newer comps (via viafmtsr.com + VIAUDIO.COM)
- many USB devices can work, even USB 2.0 (there are some driver disks and the panasonic is a very generic one and there are also good bootdisks)
- scsi (Bart has done that, I am not myself.)
- I know there are some hardware autodetection stuff in his modboot.
- Getting newer network cards to work (even the one in my P4 motherboard is still compatible).
- making screenshots (screenthief and some other tool but there where some issues)
- I have lots of bookmarks with interesting links.
- Scrolling up in command.com (scroolit, only shareware, maybe freeware alternative).
- Slowing down CPU for power saving (idle.com by microsoft)
- Short I have read you can run some windows console applications in DOS with DOS extenders.

Wouldn`t be easy to make something like a DOS distro due to developer disinterest, not many users, licensing issues... Most of the things you can find with google and all those tools have readme files. If you learn every day a new tool you become fast uber dos. However, I would be glad to share my little knowledge and help others at least with postings.

#17 MedEvil

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:47 PM

Uhm are there really people interested? :lol:

Everyone not interested say loud I!
Have you heared anone? :thumbup:

Also lots of features will stay exclusive for Windows / Linux.

Do you really think? Name 2! :thumbup:

Interesting idea.

I did always thought about deploying a premade whatever.image (VMware / VirtualBox / for USB flash drive / Bochs / DosBox) with all needed drivers, utility's, classic applications and classic games. Just for nostalgia / fun / historic / speed reasons.

But most of the software I am using may be downloaded legal and used legal for personal use. Redistributing is not allowed.

Where do you get these days DOS software, that's not eighter free- or abandonware? :thumbup:

autodownlaod stuff from the internet is just a dream and behind my capability.

Not really, Winbuilder has this build in. You just need to have alook at the script syntax (not unlike batch files) and in no time you will tell a script where to download from and where to stuff it. :thumbup:

Wouldn`t be easy to make something like a DOS distro due to developer disinterest,

I will not argue about the not easy part, but developer disinterest? With DOS?
You have to get more out into the right circles! :thumbup:

:)

#18 TheHive

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 12:34 AM

Interested!

#19 kcom

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 12:47 AM

Everyone not interested say loud I!
Have you heared anone? :lol:

:thumbup:

Do you really think? Name 2! :thumbup:

- Drivers for all soundcards. (If I am lucky the AC97 native stuff from some applications will work, but overall there are not real drivers for my soundchip.)
- DirectX / OpenGL
- Running win32 GUI apps.
- Easy solving of problems with just using google.
- tabbed browsing (useful for longer sessions)
- going online with USB-modem

Where do you get these days DOS software, that's not eighter free- or abandonware? :thumbup:

- pepa / cfos
- one of the hardware analysis application is shareware
- same for the mediaplayer and the dvd player
- MS-DOS has still not been declared as freeware / Open Source
- DR-DOS only use for private

+ the most important part. If something is freeware it does not mean you are allowed to mirror it on your site or to redistribute it.

Abandonware... Does this really happen? Someone makes freeware/shareware/payware, he will hold the intellectual property.

Now he does no longer advertise, support or sell this software. But it`s still brand with his name and he has still the intellectual property (I hate this word and all this silly stuff.) and he may not want others to use it. If a company get bought by another them get the intellectual property.

How often does it happen that someone just shuts down a company and the intellectual property is simply lost in nirvana to noone? It`s not easy to verify who holds the intellectual property.

Therefore I wouldn`t redistribute anything under a non Free Software license. It`s simply to risky. I follow the news about this stuff for a long time now. There are lawyer who earn their money with stupid dissuasion. As soon it gets public and them see them can get some money out of theoretical rights them come like carrion eaters.

Like the guys who originally developed mp3, them made some patents. Then waited for years until mp3 was widespread. No one can say them didn`t recognize that and couldn`t say that them do not want that. But in the end them sued others and made lots of money. Imho this is pretty foul. Either you do not want others to use your technique and react as fast as possible or you let them use it. But not waiting for years and then get money due to curt.

Not really, Winbuilder has this build in. You just need to have alook at the script syntax (not unlike batch files) and in no time you will tell a script where to download from and where to stuff it. :thumbup:

This would be possible, also with batch + wget. Downlaoding all the stuff from the net, extract it, put it at the right place and then write configuration files. I am not exactly sure but this could ship around any copyrights. It`s only problematic if a files goes offline. So it need to be in a way a user could download a file also alone.

I will not argue about the not easy part, but developer disinterest? With DOS?
You have to get more out into the right circles! :thumbup: :)

Eh?

#20 MedEvil

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 01:46 PM

- Drivers for all soundcards. (If I am lucky the AC97 native stuff from some applications will work, but overall there are not real drivers for my soundchip.)

Driver problems aren't the fault of DOS. Linux/Solaris/... have similar problems.

- DirectX / OpenGL

:lol:
Why should someone need DirectX / OpenGL under DOS? Do you even know what DirectX dos?
DirectX was invented for the reason to allow software a 'more' direct access to hardware under Windows.
Under DOS all software has direct hardware access by default!

- Running win32 GUI apps.

Oh and Vista can't run DOS software, is that a problem too? :thumbup:

- Easy solving of problems with just using google.

Actually that statement is not quite true. It is way harder to find solutions for really compicated Windows issues, than for really complicated DOS issues. That'S because most people using windows have not the sligtest clue to how their OS works internally, while about everyone who sticks to DOS these days seems to be an expert on the internal workings.

- tabbed browsing (useful for longer sessions)

Maybe worth mentioning to the 'Arachne guys'!?

- going online with USB-modem

Again driver issue, not DOS fault that the manufacturer only supports Windows.

Abandonware... Does this really happen? Someone makes freeware/shareware/payware, he will hold the intellectual property.

Is there Abandonware in the juristical way? NO!
Even if someone gives up his rights on something, the rights always fall to someone else. If there is noone else it's usually the government.

- So what is Abandonware?
Abandonware describes software which is no longer sold/offered for download, may it be because the company/private developer closed or the product was discontinued for some reason.
- Why is it safe to use Abandonware?
Companies would not stop selling something, if they thought they could still make money from it.
If they don't make money from it anymore, they will for sure not pay someone to watch out for people 'illegaly' using their product.

If you like to you can make a test. Set up 3 websites, with 3 different providers, under 3 different names, one having a download for Vista, one having a download for XP and one having a download for MSDOS.
The sites with the downloads for Vista and XP will draw immediate attention, while you will wait for ages to hear about the MSDOS site. :thumbup:

And with this project we're not talking about using ex buyware, as this is not allowed here. But share- and freeware whos 'author' has gone missing is fair game.


:thumbup:

#21 was_jaclaz

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:07 PM

Do you really think? Name 2! :lol:


OK.

Remote Control through TCP/IP

No, wait, here it is:
http://josh.com/tiny/

Virtual disks/filesystem software

No, wait, here it is:
http://www.frontiern...~fys/mtools.htm

All right, you win. :thumbup:

:thumbup:

jaclaz

P.S.: and yes, I am interested...

P.P.S.: and of course noone is actively developing a GUI for it

Damn! :thumbup:

http://www.nabble.co...td16321434.html
http://ikongui.freehostia.com/
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#22 MedEvil

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:43 PM

All right, you win. :lol:

Even if all the kiddies don't wanna believe it, DOS is today the cool OS! :thumbup:

P.P.S.: and of course noone is actively developing a GUI for it

Found out because of this thread, that Seal too is again actively developed.


:thumbup:

#23 MedEvil

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:57 PM

- playing dvd (afaik until now only shareware)

Have read that a brand new port of Mplayer to DOS exists. :lol: That would take care of that problem! :thumbup:

:thumbup:

#24 kcom

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 05:15 PM

Driver problems aren't the fault of DOS. Linux/Solaris/... have similar problems.

Them have some problems but them are at least supporting medium old hardware. I am with my soundchip pretty alone in dos.

Why should someone need DirectX / OpenGL under DOS? Do you even know what DirectX dos?
DirectX was invented for the reason to allow software a 'more' direct access to hardware under Windows.
Under DOS all software has direct hardware access by default!

No. DirectX = don`t care anymore if it`s SoundBlaster, Gravis Ultrasound, Disney or w/e. It`s a wrapper. Just one api. This was the point and the success story.

Oh and Vista can't run DOS software, is that a problem too? :lol:

DOSBox seams to run currently about 95 % of classic games. Software not but there are replacements for old software in 99,99 %, not alternative.

Is there Abandonware in the juristical way? NO!
Even if someone gives up his rights on something, the rights always fall to someone else. If there is noone else it's usually the government.

Never heard that the government got the rights. If so them could release it as Free Software.

If you like to you can make a test. Set up 3 websites, with 3 different providers, under 3 different names, one having a download for Vista, one having a download for XP and one having a download for MSDOS.
The sites with the downloads for Vista and XP will draw immediate attention, while you will wait for ages to hear about the MSDOS site. :thumbup:

I am pretty sure as soon one ashole mails microsoft them will recognize and ask your with emphasis to stop this. Simply because their name microsoft is and will be ever their branding.

MS-DOS will be never freeware or Free Software. Them rather want to delete this history and forget their first try`s to run.

If them really wouldn`t care or if them would be really our friends them would release the MS-DOS source code as GPL (with removed trendmarks / branding). Only that way it would be clear that it`s now legal to redistribute it.

You can test it... Ask them if them may publish their source without their trendmarks, them will refuse and reserve all their rights like before.

And with this project we're not talking about using ex buyware, as this is not allowed here. But share- and freeware whos 'author' has gone missing is fair game.

What about shareware with illegal serial keys? Illegal or what?


Ok, back to the project idea... I can`t just provide a download link to my personal builds just because of freaking legal reasons.

What would be the goals of the project? I mean, there need to be some design rules. The following ideas. All different ideas,

a) The goal is to get FreeDOS running on modern hardware. Porting drivers from linux to dos. Having a package manager to download lots of extra software. - In this case a developer could just join the FreeDOS project.

:thumbup: Having DOS on flash drive, only focus on more modern comps, only useful things for emergency / recovery, such as analysis tools, browser, backup, scan...

c) Allowing to run classic applications and classic games - I would say if someone is interested in this better contribute to the DOSBox project, it does it pretty fine already and might be perfectionate.

Currently only :thumbup: seams like worth for a new project. Or any other goals?

#25 MedEvil

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 06:05 PM

Never heard that the government got the rights. If so them could release it as Free Software.

There are not only rights to software but also to other property. Companies, buildings, land, those all fall to the government. Guess noone has yet seen the value of software rights or they would simply take to much work to make money from.

I am pretty sure as soon one ashole mails microsoft them will recognize and ask your with emphasis to stop this. Simply because their name microsoft is and will be ever their branding.

MS-DOS will be never freeware or Free Software.

I don't know where M$ got this bad publicity from. It's actually one of the nicest companies in regard to private useres breaking their eula, there is. M$ will send you a nice letter telling you to stop, where other companies already ask for crazy sums of money.

If them really wouldn`t care or if them would be really our friends them would release the MS-DOS source code as GPL (with removed trendmarks / branding). Only that way it would be clear that it`s now legal to redistribute it.

You can test it... Ask them if them may publish their source without their trendmarks, them will refuse and reserve all their rights like before.

Why should any company wanna be your friend and how's that suppose to work? Have never seen anyone sitting in a bar and having a beer with a company! :lol:

Also asking for release under GPL or release of the source code is nonsense. Most freeware isn't released under GPL not to mention that getting the sourcecode is even more seldom.
Have a look at Winbuilder. :thumbup:

What about shareware with illegal serial keys? Illegal or what?

Illegal here, according to our rules. But using shareware for longer than the trial periode is ok, if the author can't be contacted anymore.
And as far as 'just' including it in a project goes, shareware is never a problem in this way, since the responsibility to buy a license is the one of the user not the 'distributor'.

What would be the goals of the project? I mean, there need to be some design rules.

Since this is boot-land and not DOS-land, i would suggest a live system based on DOS that runs from CD and employs free- and shareware to be the best possible LiveDOS there is.
What best means in this case, is up to the developer and the requests of his userbase.

:thumbup:




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