10 replies to this topic

[pscEx]

I wanted to give a comment to the blog 'New "Getting started" section'

Fortunatelly I'v been able to understand the Portuguese 'enter the above code here'
And I also understood to enter my name and password.

But unfortunatelly my bootland password has not been accepted.

Do I have to translate the password into Portuguese, too?
That is difficult with 'xyz$123...'

Therefore here, what I tried to answer:

I'm a bit disappointed about the appearance of this new section.

I think, Amalux and Ispy suggested a section where new members can look into and find a couple of information which they can understand with their (of course currently still) low nowledge and can use to start into 'try, have success and get more knowledge'.

But here for me seems to exist an area containing all old tutorials, including those for experienced members, and even my pseudo-tutorial 'How to place a time bomb into WinBuilder'

Depending on posts, the newbie will sometimes find topics at top, which he / she really cannot understand. And then we have the same situation like before:

I understand nothing.
I either try to post a question, or better, I leave at once.

If the poll decides for having a 'newbie' section, then, please:

The newbie section contains carefully selected topics of the old 'Tutorial' section.

Peter

Peter

[ispy]

Hi Peter ,

Yes I would agree with the basics of what you are saying, the Title is "Getting Started" Starters may become confused with embedded advanced tutorials & scare them off unless some form of Grading level statement can be added e.g. A header title Starters/Beginners, intermediate, advanced etc or a further sub-division is created to classify tutorials (Keep 1 eye on disfragmentation though) due to the fact that the words "Learn & teach" have been used.

Problems like this are bound to occur in the initial stages (Teething Problems) perhaps you could help with the advanced tutorials with the wealth of experience & knowledge you have! I will learn & you could teach Just a suggestion?

Regards,

ispy

[pscEx]

Hi Peter ,

Yes I would agree with the basics of what you are saying, the Title is "Getting Started" Starters may become confused with embedded advanced tutorials & scare them off unless some form of Grading level statement can be added e.g. A header title Starters/Beginners, intermediate, advanced etc or a further sub-division is created to classify tutorials (Keep 1 eye on disfragmentation though) due to the fact that the words "Learn & teach" have been used.

Problems like this are bound to occur in the initial stages (Teething Problems) perhaps you could help with the advanced tutorials with the wealth of experience & knowledge you have! I will learn & you could teach Just a suggestion?

Regards,

ispy

@Ispy!
You are going to make me ill or crazy or whatever, with your posts.
Please try to remember what I posted to you here.

Not even Google or similar are able to translate your posts into German which I can understand!
How should I (with one year of school English about 50 years ago, and some 'on site learning' during business) understand?

Peter

[amalux]

I wanted to give a comment to the blog 'New "Getting started" section'

Fortunatelly I'v been able to understand the Portuguese 'enter the above code here'
And I also understood to enter my name and password.

But unfortunatelly my bootland password has not been accepted.

Do I have to translate the password into Portuguese, too?
That is difficult with 'xyz$123...'

Therefore here, what I tried to answer:

If the poll decides for having a 'newbie' section, then, please:

The newbie section contains carefully selected topics of the old 'Tutorial' section.

Peter

Peter

Hi Peter,

What can I say? For the most part, I agree with your observations about this new section which is why I voted NO. At the same time, I recognize the need for what ispy and others have called for in this regard but I have a hard time envisioning (seeing in my mind) what this should look like or how it should work I suppose we'll need to get some feedback from the 'newcomers' that this section is supposed to help

[Brito]

The blog is based on the google services and you would need have a registered account with google to add comments.

I've modified this option to allow anonymous comments, it's much better as it doesn't "force" people to register onto google but it may also allow spammers to soak each blog post with their pesky messages.

Let's hope their spam filters work well..

-----

About the new section.

Having more than one tutorials section would likely increase the entropy (as a wise man called jaclaz used to quote from time to time).

It needs to be reorganized and this would be a good task for a moderator which would be able to pine important topics and also create a sort of index related to the usual and often repetitive questions as well as learning tutorials.

Not strictly focused to newbies but also a section for "heavy" users to share their lessons with other developers.

Somewhere along the way it would be nice to see some balance and harmony between what we currently find on this new section.

[pscEx]

Having more than one tutorials section would likely increase the entropy (as a wise man called jaclaz used to quote from time to time).

It needs to be reorganized and this would be a good task for a moderator which would be able to pine important topics and also create a sort of index related to the usual and often repetitive questions as well as learning tutorials.

Not strictly focused to newbies but also a section for "heavy" users to share their lessons with other developers.

What about using the 'post Icon'

• The blue question mark for 'beginner information'
• The orange exclamation mark for 'expert information'
• The yellow 'right arrow' for 'common information'

But that would be difficult to maintain, if the poster neglects these 'rules'

Peter

[Brito]

I completely agree with your evaluation of this case.

Your proposed solution would help as a quick visual indicator but most authors wouldn't follow this method.


On the other hand - that's a good job for a moderator.

It's a rare event to see a tutorial post and other members with mod permissions would be able to correct as needed.

--

The only needed thing is a mod with enough pacience to go throught all tutorials and correctly classify them.

[ispy]

@Peter ,

You are going to make me ill or crazy or whatever

"Deja vu" My wife says that nearly every day, she says to me "You are complete scatter brain you drive me insane at times" sorry Peter its just the way I am LOL!

NO offence intended with this statement, just as you struggle a bit with my posts I struggle with yours but not to the extent of making me "ill or Crazy" LOL! It must be the way I structure my sentences possibly, that is causing the problems, my appologies I am not doing out of spite!

Peter Please Please avert your eyes from the next bit It will drive you ill & crazy LOL!!

@Nuno ,

I understand your dilema, trying to cater for "advanced & starters at the same time" but this may prove difficult to administrate. People coming in from the outside will look at the title "Starters" title & assume that this is where one is to begin the learning process in respect of Winbuilder & so forth. If this area becomes monopolized with medium to advanced content, starters may be put off, there will be a natural tendency for this to occur as I am sure there are many intermediate users aspiring to become, like yourselves, experts! In my view the general forum is perfectly adequate to meet those needs otherwise everyone will jump into the learners section & the general forum could get neglected in the respect that we are all in the learning process.

The starters section will have the added benefit of advertsing for boot-Land in the respect new users whether they PC competant or they are complete starters will have the confidence in knowing that Boot-land caters for all levels & thus gain popularity & interest. The tricky bit is where do you draw the line if indeed a definative line exists, maybe we/you will have to accept a certain amount of overlapping to achieve the desired results. These are merely my rambling considerations, careful planning is always wise in any venture & whatever direction you choose. You do not want to fall into the trap whereby you find that the "Starters" section becomes high maintenance & detracts from overall objective that you forsee in Boot-lands future.

The Starters section should be "Light & Fun" & not perceived as a chore, otherwise it will be doomed or fail in its overall objective & will ultimately become disfunctional. I suppose it boils down to striking the right balance, avoiding, if possible extremes. In my humble opinion the tutorials & aids will be the foundation blocks, get them right, the rest should fall into place. Its a bit like painting a wall, some will grab the tin of the cheapest paint, slap it on, stand back & admire there short lived handy work.

Professional painters say the skill is in the preparation, that is where all the work is, sanding down, filling re-sanding, applying the correct build up paint with suitable curing times between. They will stand back & be able to view their work for many years, knowing that craftsmenship & durability are prequiste for a job well done.

Sorry, Peter is right I ramble on at times.

Regards,

ispy

By the way what is entropy within the context of Boot-Lands web-site?

[Brito]

In that case it would make much more sense to have a new section starting fresh with "starters" in mind and we rebaptize the current Tutorials section to "Advanced lessons" or something.


Please suggest possible section names.

[pscEx]

In that case it would make much more sense to have a new section starting fresh with "starters" in mind and we rebaptize the current Tutorials section to "Advanced lessons" or something.


Please suggest possible section names.

Whow!!
Looks like I survived Ispy's post w/o becoming ill or crasy!
And the little bit I understood reminds me on my idea.

Nuno,
Your new opinion in my eyes is much better than that one three posts ago.
And it makes my -difficult to handle- 'icon' suggestion obsolete.

Just a reminder on a sentence I wrote some more posts ago:

If the poll decides for having a 'newbie' section, then, please:
The newbie section contains carefully selected topics of the old 'Tutorial' section.

I think it is not really necessary to explain what 'carefully selected' means.

Peter

[ispy]

Hi all ,

Please don't just take my word for it it would be worth asking others what they think as my theories may raise all sorts doubts & questions & be ultimately inpractible for reasons which are later discussed. However in my view, splitting the classification of Advanced & Starter will help both parties navigate to find what they are looking for.

In my humble opinion the tutorials & aids will be the foundation blocks, get them right, the rest should fall into place.

From both perspectives, whether they are starters & Intermediate/advanced.

In that case it would make much more sense to have a new section starting fresh with "starters" in mind and we rebaptize the current Tutorials section to "Advanced lessons" or something.

Yes that is one way of looking at it then the title "starters" is in the right context if that is the way you (& the collective) wish to proceed?

There are many ways of achieving basically the same result, it's what is easiest for you (Compliments you) with present commitments & with the help of the vast experienced pool of members you have at your disposal. My ideas are NOT the majority consensus it would be valuable as an exercise to consult others to gain the best view & thus formulate the best way forward. I am merely one of many!

I hope I have not thrown a spanner in the works by raising these issues or perceived problems but a rough cut diamond needs honing & polishing to turn it into the glittering gem stone it becomes.

At the end of the day there is no immediate rush to implement these suggestions, I would advise that others are consulted 1st though.

Anyone got some suitable applicable title names or different ideas?

Regards & Best wishes,

ispy