30 replies to this topic

[Aitrus]

So this guy posted a link on how to make a USB VistaPE.

Everything about his instructions I followed 100% correctly, and my VistaPE install is done and the files are ready to be dropped on the USB device...

The only problem is, he posted these instructions:


*******************
step 1: Preparing the USB drive
First thing you need to do is make the USB drive bootable. This tells the computer that the drive can be booted and to look for an operating system. Windows XP and Vista (and probably Windows 2000) comes with a utility called Diskpart.exe. Diskpart is a command line drive partitioning utility. To find out what you can do with diskpart, type help once you've started diskpart.

Caution: This procedure will erase all data on the drive. Back up any data you wish to save. You can copy the data back over after it's been formatted.

Plug in your USB drive.
Open the command prompt (Click Start -> Run -> type cmd.exe and press Enter)

Type in the following:
1. diskpart
2. list disk
3. select disk <disk number>
(enter the number that corresponds to your USB drive)
4. clean
5. create partition primary
6. select partition 1
7. active
8. format fs=fat32 quick
9. exit

************************

When I use the command "list disk" it does not pull up my USB device in the list(yes it is formatted and yes I have tried with both fat32 and ntfs).

It only shows my main computer HD listed.

My question is, is there a fix for this?

Or is there an alternative for getting your usb drive to be bootable.

I am using Windows XP Pro (although as stated I have finished the VistaPE setup through winbuild.

[was_jaclaz]

Well, most probably your XP sees the drive as removable.

What kind of USB device is it?

USB hard disks are usually "seen" as fixed whilst USB sticks are usually seen as removable.

TWO ways out:
1) Use the HP USB utility, see FAQ #4 here:
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html
2) Use Swissknife:
http://www.compuapps.../swissknife.htm

jaclaz

P.S.: Please when asking for help, try to better describe your problem, do cite the source of the info, post a link, whatever: "So this guy posted" is not enough info to find the original howto and maybe help you better, check also point #d. of common sense advice within Rules:
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules

[Aitrus]

Well, most probably your XP sees the drive as removable.

What kind of USB device is it?

USB hard disks are usually "seen" as fixed whilst USB sticks are usually seen as removable.

TWO ways out:
1) Use the HP USB utility, see FAQ #4 here:
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html
2) Use Swissknife:
http://www.compuapps.../swissknife.htm

jaclaz

P.S.: Please when asking for help, try to better describe your problem, do cite the source of the info, post a link, whatever: "So this guy posted" is not enough info to find the original howto and maybe help you better, check also point #d. of common sense advice within Rules:
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules

It is a 1GB USB FLash Drive.

My only thought on why it wouldnt be working is what you said about XP not seeing it as a removable drive. Perhaps Vista is the only OS in which diskpart works on a flash drive being bootable.

I also have an 8GB but I have a linux boot on it and it works fine.

Ill try the swiss thing and get back to you.

The one difference between the linux boot and the vista pe is that there was a file on the linux boot on the actual usb boot folder that you clicked and it made the USB drive bootable... Is there not a file like this? I mean if you just complete the VistaPE setup with winbuilder and drop it to the flashdrive as it states to do, will it just boot without being made bootable?

[Arvy]

...
will it just boot without being made bootable?

Nope. It needs a boot loader. Not sure exactly where you found your instructions, but the actual Copy to USB Device script in VistaPE v.11 includes this message:

You Will have to Re-Partition / Format your USB Device.
WARNING: All data on the usb-stick will deleted!
1. Select letter of your USB device
2. Format USB device with "HP USB Format Tool", please use only NTFS (recommend) or FAT32
3. Install Grub4Dos to MBR on your USB device

If I understand correctly, that last item (#3) is what you're asking about. Having done that, you should then use that VistaPE script for the copy process as it involves a little more than just a straight copy of the build files alone.

Also, since you are able to boot your other USB device, I would assume that your system BIOS is set for 'legacy' USB support. You may, however, want to check the BIOS setting details as some of them (e.g., ASUS mobos) may handle USB flash drives differently depending on their size.

[Aitrus]

Nope. It needs a boot loader. Not sure exactly where you found your instructions, but the actual Copy to USB Device script in VistaPE v.11 includes this message:

If I understand correctly, that last item (#3) is what you're asking about. Having done that, you should then use that VistaPE script for the copy process as it involves a little more than just a straight copy of the build files alone.

Also, since you are able to boot your other USB device, I would assume that your system BIOS is set for 'legacy' USB support. You may, however, want to check the BIOS setting details as some of them (e.g., ASUS mobos) may handle USB flash drives differently depending on their size.

Can you point me to a walkthrough on how to install the grub thing on my usb device?

I mean I thought it was easy cut and dry like in this post http://forums.slickd...h...62&t=705972

But it doesnt say anything about grub, so obviously someone didnt know what they were talkin about in that post.

Is there a general walkthrough on these forums on how to install the grub script and else to my usb drive?

[Arvy]

Can you point me to a walkthrough on how to install the grub thing on my usb device?

I mean I thought it was easy cut and dry like in this post http://forums.slickd...h...62&t=705972

But it doesnt say anything about grub, so obviously someone didnt know what they were talkin about in that post.

Is there a general walkthrough on these forums on how to install the grub script and else to my usb drive?

Well, the VistaPE web site points to this site as its discussion forum for users and VistaPE's chief developer, NightMan, shows up here from time to time to answer questions. So I'd suggest those sources for the most reliable info on all aspects of the VistaPE project.

I have no 'official' status whatever except as a fellow user, but I'm happy to help if I can. My advice would be first to try that VistaPE v.11 Copy to USB Device script that I mentioned above. It's designed to lead us by the hand through the entire process and it worked perfectly for me the first time I tried it. Offhand, I can't think of any easier alternative. I could post a step-by-step walkthrough for manual USB formatting and for the Grub4Dos MBR installation process if you really want me to, but it certainly wouldn't be more 'cut and dried' than the script's automated and fully self-contained approach.

Just check the box to run that script and be sure to select the root of your USB flash drive in the script's filebox. Then, when you get to that point at the end of your VistaPE build process, it will automatically:
1) Pop up a message reading: Please format USB drive. NTFS is recommended, but FAT32 works too.
2) Open the HP USB formatter (hpusbfw.exe) for you to choose the format and proceed.
3) Pop up a message reading: Please select USB drive and install Grub4Dos to MBR.
4) Run the Grub4Dos MBR installer (grubinst.exe/grubinst_gui.exe) according to your instructions per item #3.
5) Copy the Grub4Dos boot loader (grldr) to the root of your USB device
6) Copy ('robocopy') all of previously built PE files to your USB device.

That's it really. Unless some other unforeseen problem occurs, you should be ready to go. Of course, if it does not work that way for you as it did for me, be sure to let us know. But I'm a firm believer in doing things the easiest way whenever possible. In other words, I'm lazy.

[was_jaclaz]

Now that I can see where the info came from:
http://forums.slickd...h...62&t=705972

I can confirm my previous post, the howto is fairly accurate, but the whole step #1 is ONLY applicable to a device that is seen as "fixed" by XP, i.e. a USB Hard Disk, or a USB stick with the "removable bit" flipped off or maybe if either the Hitachi Microfilter Driver or the Anton Bassov's dummydisk.sys Filter drivers are installed.

On USB sticks FAT32 is strongly suggested, due to the increased wear of the device the usage of NTFS may cause.

@Aitrus, since you are a member there, please post on that thread a link to this one, or however let flea know about this issue since he appears to be expecting feedback and willing to better his howto:

Let me know if there's something confusing. I'll add some additional information later.

jaclaz

[Aitrus]

Well, the VistaPE web site points to this site as its discussion forum for users and VistaPE's chief developer, NightMan, shows up here from time to time to answer questions. So I'd suggest those sources for the most reliable info on all aspects of the VistaPE project.

I have no 'official' status whatever except as a fellow user, but I'm happy to help if I can. My advice would be first to try that VistaPE v.11 Copy to USB Device

Just check the box to run that script and be sure to select the root of your USB flash drive in the script's filebox. Then, when you get to that point at the end of your VistaPE build process, it will automatically:
1) Pop up a message reading: Please format USB drive. NTFS is recommended, but FAT32 works too.
2) Open the HP USB formatter (hpusbfw.exe) for you to choose the format and proceed.
3) Pop up a message reading: Please select USB drive and install Grub4Dos to MBR.
4) Run the Grub4Dos MBR installer (grubinst.exe/grubinst_gui.exe) according to your instructions per item #3.
5) Copy the Grub4Dos boot loader (grldr) to the root of your USB device
6) Copy ('robocopy') all of previously built PE files to your USB device.

Thank you for your help thus far. At this point I don't need an entire walkthrough, as I said the one I posted from the other forums worked in all except for actually making the usb drive bootable. I guess what I need to know now is how to actually run that script.

I saw the grub script in the forums as a download, but when clicked I see the actual script. I guess what I am saying is, I dont know how to run the script as a file? Do you use winbuilder to include the script to do that or do you have to use linux or do you run it in dos...

I basically have no idea how to use the script if that makes sense. I need the "how you take the grub script and use it from point A to point B for dummies

Everything else you explained makes perfect sense, I just have no experience in scripts and else.

PS: Hell if I get this working, ill help you write a walkthrough

Now that I can see where the info came from:
http://forums.slickd...h...62&t=705972

@Aitrus, since you are a member there, please post on that thread a link to this one, or however let flea know about this issue since he appears to be expecting feedback and willing to better his howto:

Oh don't worry I will. I have to get it right first, and I dont think the guy that posted it on those forums is even the original creator of it. But yea I will definetly post so I can let them know how it's done.

[Arvy]

At this point, I think I may be slightly confused about where you are at in using WinBuilder generally and VistaPE in particular. I've been responding under the impression that you were at the 'transfer PE to flash drive' stage and needed help only with that. Now, it almost sounds as if you may be trying to do a 'finalization' step before completing the main WinBuilder process for VistaPE.

Have you actually downloaded the complete VistaPE v.11 project, including its Copy to USB Device script, by using the Downloads tab within WinBuilder? If not, that's the place to start, and then yes, after specifying your Windows Vista or WAIK source path, you do use WinBuilder to run ALL of the scripts that are part of that VistaPE project, or as many of them as you select.

When you do that, the selected VistaPE project scripts that create the preinstallation environment itself and its content will run in WinBuilder before any of the scripts that transfer it all to your choice of CD/DVD or USB device.
__
P.S.: Just for the sake of accuracy, it is possible to run any individual script alone in WinBuilder rather than running a complete project set of scripts. But sequencing then becomes an issue and it's probably best to save that potential confusion for another day. You do not need any external (i.e., non-VistaPE WinBuilder project) scripts for what you are trying to do.

[Aitrus]

At this point, I think I may be slightly confused about where you are at in using WinBuilder generally and VistaPE in particular. I've been responding under the impression that you were at the 'transfer PE to flash drive' stage and needed help only with that. Now, it almost sounds as if you may be trying to do a 'finalization' step before completing the main WinBuilder process for VistaPE.

Have you actually downloaded the complete VistaPE v.11 project, including its Copy to USB Device script, by using the Downloads tab within WinBuilder? If not, that's the place to start, and then yes, after specifying your Windows Vista or WAIK source path, you do use WinBuilder to run ALL of the scripts that are part of that VistaPE project, or as many of them as you select.

When you do that, the selected VistaPE project scripts that create the preinstallation environment itself and its content will run in WinBuilder before any of the scripts that transfer it all to your choice of CD/DVD or USB device.
__
P.S.: Just for the sake of accuracy, it is possible to run any individual script alone in WinBuilder rather than running a complete project set of scripts. But it's probably best to save that potential confusion for another day.

I think I understand now . The thing I had read from the other forums just made it sound like, plug in usb, format, drag & drop vista dvd files to desktop, run winbuilder, import vista files and tada. But apparently you have to load that script into play.

I think I get it.

I really really appreciate all your help, you are excellent supporters. If I fail this time, I'll come back and let you know what I did. I think last time I just ran everything without using the script and making the usb device bootable. So essentially it was sitting there with all the files on it, but not bootable.

[was_jaclaz]

.... and I dont think the guy that posted it on those forums is even the original creator of it. But yea I will definetly post so I can let them know how it's done.

Well, if he is not, he should have posted a link to original source.

Winbuilder is written and maintained by Nuno Brito (the owner of this place) and improved with suggestions of the boot-land Community.

VistaPE is a project by Nightman, as well bettered and refined with the help of members of this board.

Since flea (unless he uses another nick) does not appear to be a member here it is probable that the tutorial comes from somewhere else.

jaclaz

[Aitrus]

So I finally followed your instructions Arvy, and I successfully created the bootable USB... Ohhh but the trials are not over.
I downloaded the entire Vista PE package with all items installed in it (all options selected under the Vista PE install when collapsed).
I ran the script that made the USB device bootable.

Then on my next restart after having copied everything over, it booted perfectly. I had the nice list of things to boot to, mem test etc... I chose to boot to the Vista PE.


Well it did the whole loading thing like supposed to, looked just like Vista when you're about to install it, that white bar. Then I saw the splash screen that says Windows Vista... Then I saw my mouse and a black screen, and nothing ever happened....

So at that point, I guess my question would be, did I do something wrong in the install? Perhaps my Windows Vista DVD is not up to par?

If I were to use the Automated Install whats the disadvantage to it?

Is it possible it did not work because I chose to download all the virus scanners with the one package, I mean would that mess it up?

So just to re-phrase.
#1 Started fresh, deleted all files, opened winbuilder, downloaded the full V PE package with all options.
#2 Ran the bootable Script.
#3 Copied files over to the USB device.
#4 Booted.
#5 Almost got there, then saw my mouse and a black screen, (I did proceed to wait 10 minutes just in case it was loading slowly).

[was_jaclaz]

1) Check the log file for any and all errors, if there are any, post the log.html file, compressed to a .zip or .7z file here, so that someone can have a look at it and possibly find what is wrong.
2) Generally speaking it seems that a cause could be the typical "newbie" approach (no offence intended ) to Winbuilder .scripts ( but also to nlite/vlite):
select EVERYTHING and run.

On the contrary, the most successfull approach is to select the LEAST possible items, and only when THAT build works, re-build adding a few items at the time, this way the possibility of conflicts is lessened.

jaclaz

[Arvy]

It's a bit problematic trying to guess based on an action summary that doesn't employ the same precise terminology of the WinBuilder process itself. In particular, I'm not quite sure about your summary description of steps #2 and #3, but I suspect the problem is likely to be found somewhere in that part of the procedure.

It's clear, I think, that you checked all of the VistaPE script checkboxes on Winbuilder's [Downloads] tab ('Complete' level, but not 'Beta' level?) and thus got the full project script set downloaded. It's less clear what happened after you then switched back to WinBuilder's [Scripts] tab and the VistaPE project's [Path] and [Script] tabs. As the source path, are you using a full VistaDVD (copied to disk) or are you using WAIK? And which of the VistaPE scripts did you select for inclusion in the actual VistaPE build process? In particular, was the Copy to USB Device script included in the selection when you hit the big blue Play> button? And, if so, what exactly is the signifcance of that additional step #3 - 'Copied files over to the USB device'? Was that some extra process that you performed manually?

Sorry for all the questions, but without a precise understanding in my own mind of exactly what you did, my vague guesses about possible problem sources wouldn't be very helpful.

[Aitrus]

For starters I did this....



Basically I installed ever single thing in that package.

Could that be an issue?

After that, I manually inserted the grub script and clicked play, making the usb bootable etc...

As I said, everything boots fine, just when it gets to running the OS, it pauses at the blank black screen with a white arrow. Is it possible having to many scanners installed did this? Or are the scanners even running? (Virus scanners).

[Arvy]

For starters I did this....
[image omitted]
Basically I installed ever single thing in that package. Could that be an issue?

WOW! To be honest, I've never tried doing that myself, but it sure would be a large 'preinstallation environment' and with multiple 'finalization' end points. You would definitely need the VistaDVD (not just WAIK) as the source, but I suppose it should work that way. Looking at the log file would tell the tale for sure. Nevertheless, especially in a case where you are trying to troubleshoot an issue, you might want to back off some of the VistaPE build inclusions just a bit, especially the other OSes, etc.

After that, I manually inserted the grub script and clicked play, making the usb bootable etc...

This is where I get most confused about what you are attempting. As previously mentioned, VistaPE's Copy to USB Device script, which you apparently already selected and which you ran within the total package, is completely self-contained. There should be no need to 'insert' any other 'grub script'. Are you still trying somehow to 'integrate' some external script into the process? If so, DON'T!

As I said, everything boots fine, just when it gets to running the OS, it pauses at the blank black screen with a white arrow. Is it possible having to many scanners installed did this? Or are the scanners even running? (Virus scanners).

That part I understand. Anything's possible, I suppose. But, based on what you've explained so far, my money remains on some contention between VistaPE's native build/finalize process and some conflicting add-on procedure that is being introduced unnecessarily.

Suggest trying again installing only a minimal VistaPE build on your USB device and moving upward from there. And don't forget to check the WinBuilder log for any specific errors on completion.

[Aitrus]

WOW! To be honest, I've never tried doing that myself, but it sure would be a large 'preinstallation environment' and with multiple 'finalization' end points. You would definitely need the VistaDVD (not just WAIK) as the source, but I suppose it should work that way. Looking at the log file would tell the tale for sure. Nevertheless, especially in a case where you are trying to troubleshoot an issue, you might want to back off some of the VistaPE build inclusions just a bit, especially the other OSes, etc.


This is where I get most confused about what you are attempting. As previously mentioned, VistaPE's Copy to USB Device script, which you apparently already selected and which you ran within the total package, is completely self-contained. There should be no need to 'insert' any other 'grub script'. Are you still trying somehow to 'integrate' some external script into the process? If so, DON'T!


That part I understand. Anything's possible, I suppose. But, based on what you've explained so far, my money remains on some contention between VistaPE's native build/finalize process and some conflicting add-on procedure that is being introduced unnecessarily.

Suggest trying again installing only a minimal VistaPE build on your USB device and moving upward from there. And don't forget to check the WinBuilder log for any specific errors on completion.

Lol dont you just love nubs , I make your day I know I do.

Ok so #1 Perhaps I installed 2 many items... #2 The script I keep talking about is, once the winbuilder is done downloading, you can click the what is it "load" or "script" tab, and you can paste the script from these forums into it, then play it. Thats what I've been doing.

Now if the script you say is already in the packages being downloaded then yea I totally manually ran the script for these forums.

#3 Yes once the package has been downloaded, and I ran that script, I did what that walkthrough said from those other forums...
http://forums.slickd...h...62&t=705972

I did step #6 & 7. Manually dragged the created thing into my usb device.

[Arvy]

Don't worry about making my day. I'd be too embarrassed to tell you about the screw-ups I've committed. Fortunately, others were there to help me.

Anyhow, I guess it just proves the old truism. It's often most difficult to 'unlearn' what we think we already know. If you can, just try to forget about that stuff from the other place and let WinBuilder/VistaPE do the job with their own scripts alone. Believe me, your life will be much simpler that way. Good luck.

[Aitrus]

Don't worry about making my day. I'd be too embarrassed to tell you about the screw-ups I've committed. Fortunately, others were there to help me.

Anyhow, I guess it just proves the old truism. It's often most more difficult to 'unlearn' what we think we already know. If you can, just try to forget about that stuff from the other place and let WinBuilder/VistaPE do the job with their own scripts alone. Believe me, your life will be much simpler that way. Good luck.

Thanks.

If I may ask, is there a walkthrough located on this site?
I guess mainly I do not know what scripts to select and what not to select.
If my usb booted but wouldnt fully load into PE, I'd assume its called I installed all virus scanners . How would I know what to select and what not, is there a list somewhere?

The most annoying thing about this whole thing is that I read how to do this in PC-Magazine which is how I first found out about it, but the magazine simply listed PenDrive Linux as one source, and then I think it listed VistaPE but no sites, anyways the point is, in the pc magazine the guy who told all about how you can make these bootable usb drives, he didnt list any walkthroughs or how - to's.

Where is the how to on this site? Or is that it in Winbuilder?.

[online]

I'm not sure if I well-understood all described results (and surely all further suggestions have been authoritative ), but I would like to understand more...

If "USB Legacy Support" in your mobo BIOS is enabled, if you have at least 512 MB of RAM on your machine, if you create your VistaPE from (C:\) partition (NTFS) and if your LogFile is error-free, please try to follow these further notes too:

1. create a "WB" empty folder in (C:\), copy "WinBuilder.exe" [074] into it and download "Recommended" version of VistaPE 011;

2. copy the attached "Ufd-9-copy.script" in "Finalize" folder, select in related WB window your USB Flash Drive in "UFD Root Directory" and deselect "USBDevice.script" ("Copy to USB-Device") and also all "Virtual Test" if presents, then create your VistaPE;

3. when the process goes to the end then HP utility window will appear: select "FAT" File system > "Quick format" > Start > Yes > OK > Close... wait for the copy-process is finished and if LogFile is error-free then reboot your machine with your UFD in loco.

Attached Files

•  Ufd_9_copy.7z   410.36KB   1039 downloads

[Arvy]

If I may ask, is there a walkthrough located on this site?

Of course you may ask! Sorry for the slow response, but I got temporarily distracted by some 'real life' stuff. I suppose the answer to your question depends on what you would consider to be an acceptable 'walkthrough'. Information about things that are common to WinBuilder and ALL projects thereunder is here. Information specific to the VistaPE project is here. If you favour 'third party' tutorials, you can find a reasonably decent write-up here.

I guess mainly I do not know what scripts to select and what not to select.

Actually, if you just accept what is already pre-selected when delivered via the 'Recommended' setting on WinBuilder's Downloads tab, you'll have a basic set-up requiring only a souce path input to be ready to run. If you download with the 'Complete' setting, you'll get some additional apps, again with the most commonly used ones pre-selected for inclusion in the build. In either case, it's advisable, at least in the early stages, to add only what you really think you must include for your own purposes.

If my usb booted but wouldnt fully load into PE, I'd assume its called I installed all virus scanners ...

Sorry, but I can't really think of anything useful to add to what I've already said on the subject. Start minimally (you really need only one shell and no add-on apps at all for barebones testing), keep an eye on the log file for process errors, and practice 'logical troubleshooting' (narrowing the field of possibilities) along the way.

[Aitrus]

Ok well here is my log file just for reference.

I am gonna give it one more shot after this.

One thing I didn't mention, Arvy if I am not mistaken I think you said the usbdevice script auto runs or is built in when you click play?

I do see it in the finalize folder... but when I click play, and it compiles everything, then it does the boot.wmi, after that its done and it does not pop up the hp window for formatting the USB drive...

In fact the only way I've ever got that to run was when I manually ran the script by inputing it into the "Code Box" and clicking play.

Also, nothing about clicking play as far as I know directly effects my USB device. You are supposed to manually drag and drop your ending project into the drive?

[Arvy]

One thing I didn't mention, Arvy if I am not mistaken I think you said the usbdevice script auto runs or is built in when you click play?

It does run if selected. In that respect, it is no different than any other selected script. But it has NOT been run at all during the process recorded in your uploaded log file. I know of no explanation for that other than if the script (filename: USBDevice.script, screenname: Copy to USB-Device) was EITHER
(a) not included amongst those downloaded as part of the VistaPE project package, OR
(b) not included amongst those selected to be run for the current project build process.

I do see it in the finalize folder... but when I click play, and it compiles everything, then it does the boot.wmi, after that its done and it does not pop up the hp window for formatting the USB drive...

Well, your log file does show several process errors occured before WinBuilder ever reached the finalization stage. I can only suggest again that you start with a minimal build selection. In fact, I would un-select any Other OS items in a fresh project package download and add to the pre-selected items ONLY the Copy to USB-Device script. If that doesn't work, I'm afraid I'm completely baffled.

[was_jaclaz]

Ok well here is my log file just for reference.

Look, I don't want to seem unfriendly, I am usually not , but when I say something, I appreciate if it is done:

1) Check the log file for any and all errors, if there are any, post the log.html file, compressed to a .zip or .7z file here, so that someone can have a look at it and possibly find what is wrong.

Uploading 2.38 Mb of log.html file is just an unneeded bandwith waste, removing it.

jaclaz

[Aitrus]

Look, I don't want to seem unfriendly, I am usually not , but when I say something, I appreciate if it is done:


Uploading 2.38 Mb of log.html file is just an unneeded bandwith waste, removing it.

jaclaz

Apologies. I didn't know that was a command rather than just an idea . I just uploaded without thinking of .rar or .zip. Most forums I am used to uploading items without doing as such because people think you may have infected it with a virus.

It is not an issue however, the log file was reviewed and in the future I can post it on another host as to not mis-use the bandwidth here.

Btw jaclaz been following some of your other posts around the net when looking into all the issues I am having with the VistaPE. Thanks for the info you have made available.