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LiVista Rescup


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#26 dennis123123

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:59 AM

No problem :huh: Im glad we got that one sorted out!

it'll have an inbuilt default list of files and registry changes, and through the use of plain text files, fully changeable/enhanceable!

ill give mihi a week to approve/disapprove/make-no-comment about my version, and finish it off in the mean time, then release it on here.

#27 Nuno Brito

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 10:50 PM

...
if it was a winbuilder script, you would need to carry around with you all of the winbuilder files, and the script itself to run the app, and a compiled app (to initiate the environment, afaik winbuilder cannot suspend or terminate processes on its own), a total of about 10MB at my last check!!

my app is 230kb, standalone no dependancies :huh:
....



Are you sure?!? .. :)

I think you're confusing your sight with LiveXP or VistaPE projects which can overgrow to huge sizes, another project like UXP is even sized on 600Mb but WinBuilder (the script engine) by itself is a standalone .exe file that is currently sized on 800Kb, look for yourself - http://winbuilder.ne...oad.php?view.34 :)

It is coded in delphi 7 which makes it pretty much independent from requiring any external DLL's and can run on Win9x up to NT6. We have also started testing it under WINE on linux, the biggest difficulty for working on a multi OS support is writing perfectly compatible NT hives under non-NT environments as the respective win32 API is different and very proprietary as you might guess.. :)

The only extra file you require is the script itself.

Any other small tools or files required by the script can be packed inside the same script that always remains compatible to be edited by windows notepad if you wish or using the internal source code editor.


Try imagining everything that is coded daily inside the engine and all the features that are possible to script and share for an 800kb sized executable - http://winbuilder.ne...ipt_syntax.html that allow it to be expanded so well to such "heavy sized" projects like VistaPE and LiveXP when all possible scripts and external tools are included.


---

afaik winbuilder cannot suspend or terminate processes on its own


I don't know exactly what you need but it will terminate any started process if the user presses the abort button or when you call the "halt" command on your script.

If you mean killing an external process not launched by wb then you can also use any freeware available console app for this task, inside XP and Vista there is tskill/taskkill, don't know the equivalent for Vista - http://commandwindows.com/taskkill.htm


--------------------------

But wb as it is currently available wouldn't likely work under a "raw" Vistal Install DVD OS unless it had IE installed since the download center is meant to display the respective HTML page from each available server.

It would be simple to remove the HTML view feature from the download center and make an "alternative" version available to solve this matter if necessary - even under linux, wine will use firefox for this task.

it'll have an inbuilt default list of files and registry changes, and through the use of plain text files, fully changeable/enhanceable!

Adding explorer to Vista using .reg files might seem nice in the beginning but how would you handle language related path/settings differences?

And believe me when I say that the more people using a program - the more bugs are bound to be discovered and asked to be fixed / corrected - http://www.boot-land...p;showproject=1

The explorer.script running inside wb is meant to handle a good deal of possible variables, to understand the source and to be fully adjusted as necessary. You'd also be able to use a huge collection of app scripts inside the Vista DVD or add more as necessary.

Look closer on the VistaPE or LiveXP forum and you'll see what mean.

We did spent years of work and discussion to achieve this same objective and implement as many features as possible to build truly flexible boot disks in a simple and automated fashion.

----

It's ok if you don't want to use wb but at least try once the single .exe engine - it's simple - look on the reactOS or PE21 projects to see how they use only a few scripts to build up everything.

:huh:

#28 dennis123123

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:00 PM

Thankyou for the detailed and insightful post Nuno :huh:

It seems I am wrong about the size then, but it also needs 7zip exe and dll to extract from WIM files... so 800kb + 200kb approx i think.

But I still feel the concept of this project is being overlooked...

We did spent years of work and discussion to achieve this same objective and implement as many features as possible to build truly flexible boot disks in a simple and automated fashion.


We are not trying to build a bootdisk here, rather an application to use the untouched windows install dvd as a "live" bootdisc, with the explorer shell etc.

I must get some sleep now, ill make a more detailed post tomorrow :huh:

thanks again!

#29 Nuno Brito

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:30 PM

We are not trying to build a bootdisk here, rather an application to use the untouched windows install dvd as a "live" bootdisc, with the explorer shell etc.

Well..

WinBuilder's name was chosen for a good reason otherwise it would be called "bootdisk builder" or something else starting with "PE".. :)

Also, the Vista explorer shell support is based on a wb script that already handles multi-language support and adds several tweaks like IE, WIFI, programs and such.. :huh:

It's not difficult to use the same scripts to write on the own OS environment if they are app script based, you could also use the download center to promote and share more scripts that users could download directly to their USB pendisks.

This is a matter of creativity, do consider all the available options and then choose whichever you feel more confortable with, if you feel that wb is not the right tool for this task, by all means do build one that is appropriate and more user friendly.

It seems I am wrong about the size then, but it also needs 7zip exe and dll to extract from WIM files... so 800kb + 200kb approx i think.

Yep, but you will also need yourself to use 7zip or DLL's drivers from Microsoft on your tools that use WIM files, the same way as nlite and others.. :)

WIM support internally by WB may be added in the future as the specifications were made available by MS some time ago, at the moment I'm personally more worried about adding full hive read/write support inside wb without resort to win32 API.

I'm almost finished with raw reg but there is still one bug (or more?) that outputs a glitch in certain conditions that is still puzzling my head, after that I might focus on WIM support as well.

:huh:

#30 was_jaclaz

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 09:09 AM

Again, personal take on the matter:

WIM support internally by WB may be added in the future as the specifications were made available by MS some time ago, at the moment I'm personally more worried about adding full hive read/write support inside wb without resort to win32 API.

OK,.....as long as you ALSO make a standalone RAWREG :huh:

I'm almost finished with raw reg but there is still one bug (or more?) that outputs a glitch in certain conditions that is still puzzling my head, after that I might focus on WIM support as well.

Let alone WIM's for the moment, find the glitch, a project about WIM was already started, it may be redundant if you independently start a new one:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5308

:huh:

jaclaz

#31 Nuno Brito

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 05:17 PM

...
OK,.....as long as you ALSO make a standalone RAWREG :huh:


Yes, that is assured. I has become a very reliable tool to spot differences between win32 and rawreg hives.



Let alone WIM's for the moment, find the glitch, a project about WIM was already started, it may be redundant if you independently start a new one:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5308
..

Only after rawreg and a stable wb is completed.

:huh:

#32 dennis123123

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 07:26 PM

Ok, well it seems like mihi has vanished...

but while I wait the last couple of days, can anyone help me pick a name for my version of this program? :cheers:

I dislike "LiVista Rescup" personally, but I suck at inventing names :confused1:

#33 Nuno Brito

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 09:51 PM

I don't have many ideas at the moment but it might be a good idea to start up a new topic on the "Vote!" section and after other members suggest names you like it would be time for a voting - http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=37

Doesn't work to have too many names to choose from, better 3~4 options to ease things.

Hope you like the idea.



:confused1:

#34 dennis123123

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:25 PM

I don't have many ideas at the moment but it might be a good idea to start up a new topic on the "Vote!" section and after other members suggest names you like it would be time for a voting - http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=37

Doesn't work to have too many names to choose from, better 3~4 options to ease things.

Hope you like the idea.



:confused1:



Thanks! TBH i didnt know that section existed :cheers: ive started a topic, and like you said, ill add a poll if I get a few suggestions.

http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5876

#35 allanf

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:40 AM

@mihi (or any other bright spark ... :cheers: ...)

It's not often that jaclaz should send someone on a wild-goose chase.

However... ....... :cheers: ... :cheers: ...

And somehow I've ended up here, trying to get this thing running in the Windows 7 Setup Environment.

Almost! But not quite.

Here's a 2 MB Flash Movie, which shows things extracting and loading OK; but no TaskBar ever materialises.

(I extracted the http://rescup.winbui...escup-0.0.2.zip to the system32 folder of the Setup image in the Install DVD's boot.wim... don't think this should be a problem.)

Regards :cheers:

#36 was_jaclaz

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:50 AM

You have to look at the bright side of it. :cheers:

You have something like a > 2 Gb working NOTEPAD! :cheers:

:cheers:

Seriously, now, what about the "original" batch ?:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=3806&st=2


Or version 0.01:
http://rescup.winbuilder.net/download/

Source appears like not being where it should:
https://rescup.winbuilder.net/svnroot/

:cheers:

Let's wait a bit for mihi to reply, then we'll post the thingy in the Lost&Found.

Judging from the movie, it is almost working, thuis only minor changes should be necessary to have it hopefully fully working....

:cheers:

jaclaz

#37 allanf

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 02:45 PM

You have to look at the bright side of it. :cheers:

You have something like a > 2 Gb working NOTEPAD! :cheers:


And, if the notepad option is unselected, all there is in the end is a lifeless screen of wallpaper... Win7 Setup Wallpaper tho!

The un-versioned zip in the first link appears to be same as the v.001, and both require the treatment described by ktp:

After unzipping the zip from mihi, in fact you must first rename rescup.bat to rescup.dat, then rename rescup.txt to rescup.bat.


No joy! ... :cheers: ...

That .bat is a few lines to setup the .exe. I can't find any original .bat that could provide more detail.

I assume it worked well for Vista, and if someone can develop it, I reckon it would make a great uncomplicated Winbuilder project. I call my .iso nano7 ... :cheers: ... 7-up sounds OK too!

Come on mihi!

#38 dog

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:32 PM

Mihi may not be around, but dennis123123 adapted it - you could try his version?
http://www.boot-land...amp;#entry46407

#39 mihi

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 08:47 PM

hi,

first of all, I am not really "gone", it is just that I usually rely on the forums software for notifying me of replies, but for some reason this one sometimes does not work (it sends me 20 other emails per week which made me create a filter rule just because I usually cannot find the time to read them all, which makes it even harder to spot topic reply messages if they ever appear). If you want to reliably reach me, use one of the email addresses that you find in and around Livista Rescup. And here is another one for you: please-answer.mihi42 (at) safersignup (dot) com. I usually try to react on (non-automated) emails within 48 hours, but sometimes there are just too many of them.

Next, running Livista Rescup on anything else but Vista will most likely not work, since Microsoft introduces new DLLs and dependencies in every release and continues its path of putting internationalized information into .mui files.

If you want to play with it in Virtual PC, install VFD (Virtual Floppy Drive) on the host and use a 2.88MB virtual floppy for transferring split 7z files. whic works surprisingly well. Just make sure to always suspend and never reboot your VM (or insert a virtual hard disk for storing data) and you can easily set up your debugging environment in there.

As a start, I would try to get Sysinternals Filemon/Regmon/Procmon/DbgView/ProcExp running, then DependencyWalker, and maybe your favourite assembly-level debugger (I use OllyDebug). Then make sure that DependencyWalker does not find any static dependencies of Explorer.exe that are not present (if there are some, extract them - including .mui - from the WIM file). Then try to start explorer and look at the ...Mon outputs to see what is missing. Add that file(s) (and their dependencies) and start over. In extreme cases, you may need to debug explorer.exe using the debugger.

It may help to set the Shell entry (I don't really remember its location since Microsoft moves it around a lot) to something else than explorer.exe so that the explorer does not load a task bar but a standalone Explorer window instead, because you need different DLLs for them than for the taskbar. Now if you have spent enough time, Explorer will hopefully run before you extracted all the files from the WIM, so you can successively delete files until it stops working (and so on). When you have it working, try to copy everything you need, restart (you will most likely have forgotten something, so don't be surprised) and try again...

Long story short: just start over with every new Windows release... Kudos to anyone who has the time and nerves to do this with Windows 7.

@dennis123123: Feel free to do anything you like with it, release it, improve it, whatever.

@jaclaz: Yeah, the SVN is broken since the server move (I'd blame Nuno...). There is a svndump of it available at http://rescup.winbui...cup-svn-dump.gz so if you want to import it to a (local, or more reliable public) SVN, feel free to do so...

@all: If you want to get in touch, try to write an email. A private message may work as well, if the forum software manages to notify me...

Have fun :-)

mihi

#40 allanf

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:15 PM

Mihi may not be around, but dennis123123 adapted it - you could try his version?
http://www.boot-land...amp;#entry46407


Thanks dog, I'll try that one.




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