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XPSP1 with full commandline and NTFS below 10 MB


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#26 pscEx

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:56 PM

Well, you gave a link to the FreeDOS-32 site, the question was more a rhetorical one, it took me all of five seconds (Italian ones, of course :cheers: ) to find these pages:
http://updates.boot-...esources.Script
http://update.boot-l...esources.Script
And of course this one:
http://updates.boot-land.net/067/

...so my guess is that it won't be useful to Run Edxor, which is a GUI app :cheers:

So you lose 1 Italian point for mis-linking and another Italian point for mis-representing the .dll, which rounds up to:
-2 x 1 x 2 x half-a-dozen = -24 German points :cheers:

:cheers:

....but you won elsewhere:
http://www.boot-land...?...=3733&st=24

:cheers:

jaclaz

As usual, your replies seem to be unbeatable (I say 'seem', I'm hard working on checking 'are').
I have at least a small satisfaction in your last lines.

Peter :cheers:

#27 was_jaclaz

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 11:24 AM

Back to topic, I managed to get blackbox to work as shell. :cheers:

Also, miniexplorer (partially) works.

There is a lot of Registry editing/adding/fixing to do to have "base" functions like executing programs (managed to make it working) and copy/paste (NO joy yet) to work but I am pretty sure that with lots of patience it is doable.

I did not find yet a way to run Regedit/Regedt32, but command line REG.EXE appears to be working.
Good ol' RegistrarLite loads (but does not load properly the Registry) :cheers:

Next step is definitely finding a way to manage comfortably the Registry from within the booted VM, closing it, mounting the drive image, loading the hive(s) on main OS, editing them unloading and re-booting the VM is definitely a too long process.

Here are a couple screenshots of System (almost) working and of the (rarely seen before) "It is now safe to turn off your computer" screen, obtained by using the "Goodbye->LogOff" feature of blackbox.

Right now the UI is a mess as it mixes some remnants of Dietmar's (German) Registry, most standard (English) from new source and a few (Italian) text from entries I blatantly copied from my running Win2k.

I definitely need to install a base English XP and work in the same environment as that inside the VM. :cheers:

:cheers:

jaclaz


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#28 pscEx

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:15 PM

Right now the UI is a mess as it mixes some remnants of Dietmar's (German) Registry, most standard (English) from new source and a few (Italian) text from entries I blatantly copied from my running Win2k.

You should use nativeEx's hiveFactory clone and build your own registry with HoJoPE.exe, using your source CD and control files describing the registry content.

Peter

#29 Dietmar

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:40 PM

Jaclaz,

make a try with the registry from the configfolder of the Mini XP SP1, that I put here to make Diskpart work.
Nice to hear from you

Dietmar

PS: I do not think, that the different language is the problem.

#30 was_jaclaz

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:12 PM

Jaclaz,

make a try with the registry from the configfolder of the Mini XP SP1, that I put here to make Diskpart work.
Nice to hear from you

Dietmar

PS: I do not think, that the different language is the problem.


Much better! :cheers:

Copy/Paste + Drag n' Drop now work!

Programs do not execute on double click, but that's OK I already solved it, it is a file association thingy in HKCR that I can manage by merging relevant entries.

There are three files:
IPROP.DLL
STORPROP.DLL
STREAMCI.DLL
that appear to be unneeded/DVD specific. :cheers:

And no, different language is not a problem, of course :cheers:, I am just curious (I'll find it before or late :cheers:) where the heck are the strings "Abbrechen" and "Eigenschaften von" that come out from "Disk Properties" :cheers:

:cheers:

jaclaz

#31 was_jaclaz

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 05:45 PM

Smallish update, nothing (yet) fully replicable, but I managed to have Regedit work.

Also, both Ultradefrag:
http://ultradefrag.sourceforge.net/
and SWISSKNIFE:
http://www.compuapps.../swissknife.htm
(the version inside http://files.compuap...nife-BartPE.exe i.e. the "BartPE" version)

work! :thumbsup:

jaclaz

#32 was_jaclaz

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:04 AM

Summing up these last days experiences, I think we must re-formulate goals and expectations for this project.

We must "fork" it in two main development paths:
1) WinCLIBR
(i.e. Base Recovery, based on first posted files from Dietmar.)
This with:
Mouse support
NTFS, FAT and CFDS support
Dos Navigator (about 1.5 Mbytes)
blackbox (about 300 Kb)
Swissknife (about 3 Mb)
A number of smallish utilities, say Nirsoft ones + various ones like MBRfix/MBrwiz and the like, say another 2 Mb
Can stay below 30 Mb, maybe 20, which is what I personally find as a reasonable size for this kind of build, having all the functionalities of the Recovery Console, but with a file navigator (VERY fast, NC-like) :D and a graphical partitioning utility.

The missing step is a Registry manipulating utility, the excellent
Native Registry Editor by Dan Madden:
http://www.codeproje.../NtRegEdit.aspx
http://www.codeproje...NtRegistry.aspx
works as a charm, I used the "VC++6.0" version as it was the most "compact one" with:
NTRegedit.exe 312 kb
aclui.dll 105 kb
Msvcp60.dll 393 kb

problem is, it still misses the Load/Unload hive capability, which is of course needed in Recovery Environment.

(I will try to contact Mr. Madden to see if he is interested in adding this feature) ;)

Making default Registry Editor working is, besides rather difficult, incredibly space-hungry, unless I am mistaken, getting it to work adds to the build something like 17 Mbytes of related files and dependencies.

On the other hand, still below 100 Mbytes:

2) WinCLINL
(i.e. No Limits based on second sets of files by Dietmar)
Same as above, with normal Regedit, full clipboard/OLE support, almost ANY app running or installable.

The great advantage of such a system as compared to the various PE based ones is that it is a writable system, thus you do not need to re-build, you just add applications (almost) the normal way. If an app does not work, you fire up Dependency Walker and/or Regmon/Filemon and add the missing file or Registry entry.
I have seen in these days that, as expected, once you have resolved the "base" dependencies for a number of programs, each subsequent one you try needs less and less work to be made working.

And of course here comes the request to Dietmar (I know he is waiting for it and I don't want to disappoint him):
Can we have this thingy bootable from USB? :thumbsup:

And one for Euhenio, Bilou_gateux or for anyone with experience with RamDisk:
Can we have this thingy bootable from Ramdisk using the Server 2003 SP1+ files? :D

:D

jaclaz

#33 Dietmar

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 10:06 AM

Hi jaclaz,

you are right, I also thought about the possibilty of USB and ram boot.

This can be done easily.

I post this in a few days, when there is no school in germany for 4 days.

Nice to hear from you all

Dietmar

#34 MedEvil

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:26 PM

@jaclaz
I'm a bit confused at the moment, care to help me out? :D
Up to this point i thought the goal of this project was to create the smallest XP possible.
But when i read your last post, i see this project play, size wise, in the same category as, for instance, nativeEx_barebone.

So what is the potential advantage of a OS based on this project over a PE one?

:thumbsup:

#35 dog

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:53 PM

@MedEvil

The great advantage of such a system as compared to the various PE based ones is that it is a writable system, thus you do not need to re-build, you just add applications (almost) the normal way.

Although if it boots to ram, the re-building is back, I suspect.

#36 was_jaclaz

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:06 PM

@dog

Yes, of course, with some, I think, still residual advantages nonetheless, I mean, for example, being able to actually test an app BEFORE re-building and only rebuild once and IF results are satisfying.
But RAM booting is probably a requisite for the people that have hardware that generates 0x000007b BSOD when booted from USB.

@Medevil
I may add to the part dog quoted, as you can see from my post, that I vouch for a fork of the project, one still aimed to the smallest having practical utility* one, and the other to a more feature-filled build.

jaclaz

* I mean, and no offence intended for anyone :thumbsup: that there are a few projects around, that are more a "proof of concept" than anything, this (the BR one) can be something you can "stick" (pardon me the pun) on your 16 Mb or 32 Mb USB stick :D, yes the one you bought for some 40 US$ some four years ago or the one that you got as a promotional gift a few weeks and that you put in a drawer of your desktop, not knowing what to do with it, and have a handy Recovery environment much better than Recovery Console.

#37 MedEvil

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:19 PM

Sorry, dog, jaclz, but i seem to be a little slow today.
Isn't PE already able to run from ram?

:thumbsup:

#38 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:20 AM

Sorry, dog, jaclz, but i seem to be a little slow today.
Isn't PE already able to run from ram?

:D

Well, today is a new day, the sun is shining (actually NO, I am lying ;), right now it is raining cats and dogs, but the image of a blue sky with a bright sun helps :D).

I hope you feel "faster" today, but it's my turn to be "slow".

I cannot see the relevance of your comment. :).

I mean, what gives? :D

Also DOS, Win9x/ME, Linux and probably a few tens of other lesser known Operating Systems are "already able to run from ram".

Would this be a reason why this thingy we are discussing here should not? :thumbsup:

I got the impression (hopefully being totally wrong) that you perceive this XPCLI to be somehow a "competitor" of some kind to PE.

This is not, at least for me, the general idea.

I see it as an alternative, with some advantages (and, quite obviously, some shortcomings) to ANY other bootable environment.

I mean IF it is possible, why not try using it?

:)

jaclaz

#39 MedEvil

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 05:06 PM

I see it as an alternative, with some advantages (and, quite obviously, some shortcomings) to ANY other bootable environment.

Ahh, finally we're getting somewhere.
An alternative makes only sense if it is different in some way. Why should anyone else spend time on reinventing the wheel exactly like it already exists?

So what are the advantages, that would make this project an alternative to the already working PE projects?

If it is only different and has nothing but disadvantages, tell me and i won't bother you again. :D

:thumbsup:

#40 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 05:31 PM

@Medevil
Listen, I have already clearly stated what I think of it, just read it.

Then you may agree or disagree with my ideas, and on what I find an advantage or disadvantage, but what is the point of asking for the THIRD time the same thing (that is already here) ?

Re-read, slowly, posts #32, #35, #36 :
http://www.boot-land...?...=3717&st=31

I have nothing to add to them.

If you want to start a "philosophical" discussion of the type "NTFS vs. FAT32", "Win98 vs. XP" or, in this case, "PE vs. XPCLI", you are very welcome to do so, start a new thread, please.

jaclaz

#41 dog

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 11:12 AM

Smallish update, nothing (yet) fully replicable, but I managed to have Regedit work.


Can you post your file list, and config dir?
Seems a shame to re-invent the wheel :thumbsup:

#42 was_jaclaz

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:48 PM

Can you post your file list, and config dir?
Seems a shame to re-invent the wheel :)


Well, not yet, the method I used is a bit "unconventional" and I still have to resolve some of the problems, but I will post something soon, promise-

Basically I did MISTAKE #1 ;) Added too many things together without properly documenting the steps and I have now a Registry with redundant entries, some unneeded files and more generally something that I cannot remember how I made. :D

I am re-working step by step to see if I can produce something replicable.

Problem is with the Registry, I did something tha made things work and I cannot find what it was....

About the wheel, you appear to be part of the less historically aware people :D:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=2037&st=8
:D

:thumbsup:

jaclaz

#43 was_jaclaz

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 09:38 AM

GOOD NEWS :thumbsup::

Dan Madden, the author of NTRegEdit, is interested in the project and will see if he can add the missing features to his app:
http://www.boot-land...itor-t3782.html

jaclaz

#44 dog

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:25 PM

Trying NtRegEdit.exe I get "The system cannot execute the specified program."
Is this something you documented solving :thumbsup: ?

#45 was_jaclaz

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:54 PM

Trying NtRegEdit.exe I get "The system cannot execute the specified program."
Is this something you documented solving :thumbsup: ?


Should just be these:
NTRegedit.exe 312 kb
aclui.dll 105 kb
Msvcp60.dll 393 kb
but maybe you miss MFC42.DLL (which is needed anyway for SWISSKNIFE)
or some of the other files I added for Edxor, OLE32.DLL COMDLG32.DLL, whatever

Run Dependency Walker:
http://www.dependencywalker.com/
on it, you should have just the "direct" dependencies OK.
The delayed ones (the ones that get a hourglass near the name) should not be needed)

jaclaz

#46 thunn

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:59 AM

Somewhere in here is the base for a proper non pe XP inram, under 100 MB., which is what I seek to offer wb users. Up to now getting the win root under 100MB. and keeping all need functions has been difficult so I also started from scratch, once again.. XpSp2 btw.
Peters comment about using his hojo app should be taken into consideration.
Psc,
can you please PM me or post us a little example of how to configure a test environment using hojo? :thumbsup:

#47 MedEvil

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:31 PM

Somewhere in here is the base for a proper non pe XP inram, under 100 MB., which is what I seek to offer wb users. Up to now getting the win root under 100MB. and keeping all need functions has been difficult so I also started from scratch, once again.. XpSp2 btw.
Peters comment about using his hojo app should be taken into consideration.
Psc,
can you please PM me or post us a little example of how to configure a test environment using hojo? :D

Cool, we're again on the same quest! :D
No idea what functions you wanna keep in your XP, but the difference, size wise, between a true XP and a PE with the same features, is not worth speaking of.
I would guess that PE is at best 1 or 2 MB bigger.

:thumbsup:

#48 was_jaclaz

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:46 PM

OK, peeps :D

I somewhat managed to create a replicable situation. :)

My .script developer friends, and expecially psc will pardon me if I did not use Winbuilder, but I simply have not the time to learn how it works, and besides, seeing how UGLY and INCONVENIENT is the "Building Environment" I put together will make some of them want to create a proper WB project for this thingy here. ;)

Please find attached two .zip files:
first one containing the directory listing of the build environment folder, both as a "normal" DIR /S and as a DIR /B /S
second one containing the "custom" files needed.

Instructions (BRIEFLY):
1) Unzip files to a work directory (Please only paths WITHOUT spaces!)
2) Run XPcliLST.cmd
3) Open with Notepad the produced aXPCLI.lst file and see if what is in there makes sense
4) Use the two DIR files to get an idea what and where "third party" files are needed and place them accordingly (links to the various apps are in my previous posts)
5) Please make sure you do not overwrite the .rc files in the bblean directory
6) Run MK_XPcli.cmd and see if it throws any error ( check ATTENTIVELY the xpcli.log that will be made in \ROOT\ directory)
7) Create a bootable disk image suitable for Qemu, I am using a 100MB one, format it as NTFS, mount it in IMDISK or VDK and copy to it the contents of \ROOT\ directory, unmount it
8) Run Qemu with the image and start experimenting...:D


NOTES:
The Registry files within the attachment in \BaseRegistry\ are first release of Dietmar's files with the "patches" for mouse, CDFS and FAT support already merged, a copy of the original ones are in \BaseRegistry\XPCLIBR_Dietmar\

To start Blackbox, simply run the bb.cmd.

As an example in the generated aXPCLI.lst file the entries for Edxor are commented:
#To add Edxor

#WINDOWS\Edxor.exe  

#WINDOWS\riched32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\comdlg32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\riched20.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\shell32.dll  

#WINDOWS\system32\shlwapi.dll

you must uncomment them:
#To add Edxor

WINDOWS\Edxor.exe  

WINDOWS\riched32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\comdlg32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\riched20.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\shell32.dll  

WINDOWS\system32\shlwapi.dll
to have it working.

Also, MiniExplorer is NOT implemented, although an entry in BlackBox menu.rc is present, adding it is left as an exercise to the reader. :thumbsup:

Have fun! :D

jaclaz

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#49 dog

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:25 PM

It works! :thumbsup:
I'm not getting a mouse cursor on vmserver, but I'll look into that later.
I also found that launching blackbox left a "hung" cmd window, which I couldn't kill without a mouse, so I changed the cmd to
start blackbox

exit

Cheers for the nice scripts, not at all ugly :D

#50 was_jaclaz

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:23 PM

It works! :thumbsup:
I'm not getting a mouse cursor on vmserver, but I'll look into that later.
I also found that launching blackbox left a "hung" cmd window, which I couldn't kill without a mouse, so I changed the cmd to

start blackbox

exit

Cheers for the nice scripts, not at all ugly :D


Not having a "real" unmodified XP 2600 installed anywhere, I have no way to understand what mouse driver is used, so I used the mouclass.sys that is on my working W2K PC, which comes from Microsoft anyway, adding it the \ADDONS\ folder, it seems like there is not a mouclass.sy_ on the XP CD, of course the entries in Registry are for that driver, you might want to change the mouse.reg accordingly and add the right file to aXPcli.lst.

Maybe that is the problem. :D

jaclaz