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#1 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:49 AM

Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs (WinFLP) is intented to provide a thin-client operating system that will provide basic computing services on older hardware, while retaining
much of the modern core technology in Windows XP Service Pack 2, such as Windows
Firewall, Group Policy, Automatic Updates, and other management services. Users
would typically make use of line-of-business applications that are hosted on a
remote server using Remote Desktop. This version of Windows will not support dial-up,
or VPN connections, but it will support operating as a diskless workstation and
remote booting.


Normally this OS is available to Software Assurance customers, I'm wondering, has anyone here use it?
I'm obtaining a copy for testing soon.

~~

FF>> one day.
So here's a look at the directory structure of the setup media, an iso image containing among other things, a large main .wim setup file (not pictured). It's likely the old ximage from the alpha longhorn days will be required to update the base image with new drivers, etc. One nice feature is access to a cmd prompt at the beginning of setup in a basic 32 bit pe which, among other things, facilitates recording an unattend.xml for future deployments. :cheers:

Attached Thumbnails

  • win51flp_cdtree.png


#2 AeroXP

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:52 AM

AFAIK, It's based on XP Embedded.

#3 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 05:21 AM

I'm interested in winflp mainly because it uses the .wim format to install xp. If anyone has any gritty details or has tested the os, I'm most curious. I've heard about trouble with VMWare which I like to use if possible. I now have the iso image on harddisk ready to go, a look inside was quite interesting, it appears half normal setup, half runtime image..

#4 MedEvil

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:20 PM

Great find thunn!
Can you give some technical data about it, like:
- how big is the image?
- how much ram does it need?
- is it a portable system or has it to be build especialy for the computer in question?

:cheers:

#5 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 04:35 PM

I tried it. It's actually created from normal XP files but reduced and using some weird setup process (I'm not familiar with Embedded but it's probably uses its setup rutine, to me it's very similar like deploying prepared image). All setup files (in INF folder of installed system) are the same with normal XP (like syssetup.inf, sysoc.inf, etc.) but they obviously not used - there is a base regestry (minimal configuration) and a few regestry snapshots for a few components (adding a component during setup means merging a certain snapshot with all settings for this component to the basic minimal regestry).
So it may be something like this (I may be wrong though):
1. Laying image of a some basic system on a partition (it probably also lays the file system and mbr - I made it before for super-fast partitionning :cheers:
2. Starts detecting and installing specific hardware (Embedded or BartPE method?).
3. Merges regestry snapshots of choosen components to the main regestry.

#6 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:39 PM

I tried it. It's actually created from normal XP files

:cheers:
All the files I inspected were from Server 2003 SP1, despite many references to XPSP2 technology.
It's some kind of hybrid designed for use as an embedded runtime image inram or or even a workstation I think.
I'm about to give it a go in a virtual pc.

..
@Medevil,
The image is 575 Mb.
and..
RequiredMemory = 134217728
Pagefile = 120,250
loaderprompt="Starting Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs Setup..."
You also asked,
- is it a portable system or has it to be build especialy for the computer in question?

Though portable is not the word I would use, yes, I suppose it is.

..
I'll post more thoughts after the system is actually running, already, it seems interesting though. At the beginning of setup, a map net drive wizard is available to import an unattend.xml from a network, the system, as mentioned, is deployed from a wim image. Also included is a nice diskpart GUI, which I used to create a 1 GB partition for setup, about 800 Mb. was required. It looks like it installs to compressed partitions. :cheers:

Attached Thumbnails

  • winflp02.png
  • winflp04.png
  • winflp05.png


#7 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 08:29 PM

You inspected the files in image or in an installed system? :cheers:

Frankly speaking for me it doesn't metter. You asked who tried it, I described my experience. And I added that I may be wrong. That's all.

#8 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 08:40 PM

You inspected the files in image or in an installed system


Why should that matter, did a little tiny guy go inside your pc and change the file versions on you during setup? :cheers:

Seriously though,
Thanks for the info! :cheers:
You stated the files wre from XP which I just wanted to clarify was not the case.

Do you have the image you tried?

#9 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 09:14 PM

I didn't check binary files but if I'm not mistaken I compared some INF files (I may be mistaken - too many test :cheers: I wanted to use it as a base for small OS in RAM...

Installed it a few times on real computers. Don't have it running but still have the image here :cheers:

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 10:43 PM

Most interesting, thunn.
From the named values, i can't see any difference to a normal XP install.
Looking forward to your test.

:cheers:

#11 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 11:07 PM

In MS VPC you cannot log on to the winflp system easily, by default the system requires ctrl, alt, del to be pushed together (security, blah, blah..), which is a bit of a problem for vpc2007 with no addons.

The setup completed ok, I'll have to modify the setup for autologon though. It comes with a special deployment guide for winflp, so it should be no problem. I'll make a ua setup soon and post more for anyone interested.

#12 MedEvil

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 11:31 PM

In MS VPC you cannot log on to the winflp system easily, by default the system requires ctrl, alt, del to be pushed together (security, blah, blah..), which is a bit of a problem for vpc2007 with no addons.

Thunn modify the host key of you VPC. I use Ctrl-Right.
In my case, to get ctrl,alt,del in VPC, i have to press ctrl-right,del. (ctrl+alt+del = host key+del)

:cheers:

#13 thunn

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 11:35 PM

Thunn modify the host key of you VPC. I use Ctrl-Right.
In my case, to get ctrl,alt,del in VPC, i have to press ctrl-right,del. (ctrl+alt+del = host key+del)

:cheers: :cheers: thx.

#14 Alexei

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 11:24 AM

3. Merges regestry snapshots of choosen components to the main regestry.

Interesting! Pretty close to what I was going to do for "PE Core", though I wanted to (and still going to) exclude unneeded parts from a common all-in-one .reg file.
I have a question, though: are those "snapshots" a .reg files, hives, or what?
:cheers:
Alexei

#15 Oleg_II

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 12:41 PM

Alexei

I have a question, though: are those "snapshots" a .reg files, hives, or what?

Don't remember for sure right now but it is something like .SAV files.

#16 Alexei

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:52 PM

Alexei
Don't remember for sure right now but it is something like .SAV files.

The reason I asked is that if they are not in .reg format I can convert them into .reg and use in my "PEcore".
Anyway, it should not be hard to make an automated procedure to convert them into WB scripts (or just one big script) :cheers:
:cheers: MedEvil - that's the way to get the "right" registry :cheers:
:cheers:
Alexei

#17 MedEvil

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:50 PM

:cheers: MedEvil - that's the way to get the "right" registry :cheers:
:cheers:
Alexei

We'll see, in an hour i'm at home and can play with it.

:cheers:

#18 thunn

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 06:58 PM

The Group policy settings you guys are talking about may be contained inside the .wim, I don't see them though.

One interesting item is a dir. containing dotnet cmpnts that's only 11 MB, it's appears expanded.
It may be the compact dot net distro intended for embedded or portable devices, not sure.

#19 MedEvil

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:52 PM

Did you guys see the readme.htm?

One of the Setup Issues deals with creating a PE from the WinFLP. :cheers:
Does M$ have a tool nowadays to create a PE too?

:cheers:

#20 pscEx

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:55 PM

Currently I have the feeling that I'm stupid and do not understand the sence of this topic :cheers: ???

Can somebody post
  • Where to download what
  • What to do with the downloaded item
to help me to be able to discuss here?

BTW: I'm member in M$ Connect

Peter

#21 Oleg_II

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 09:22 PM

Alexei
It's not easy to get these SAV (or other regestry files?) from the disk - they are in WIM file on disk and I couldn't find the way to open it, it's made with different (old version?) WIM utility.
I thought to get these files also by using virtual machine and stopping installation at different stages, maybe it is possible to grab files before setup deletes them.

MedEvil
As far as I understand the installation disk is created based on PE. Something like Ghost 9, 10 or 12 boot disks.

By the way, during installation first boot agent from Embedded is used.

psc
Unfortunately this system is not sold officially and it's tricky to get it for tests.

Test
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#22 MedEvil

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:57 PM

If this isn't the dumbest product ever, i don't know which is.

What do you expect from an OS call 'Windows for legacy PC'?

I expect a version of Windows which is optimized for older computers with a slow CPU, little Ram and a small and slow HDD.

M$ appearantly has a different view on things.
So is for instance, indexing still running and Luna the default theme. :cheers:
Nice is the ability to choose during setup which components not to include, like on the good old win9x.
Unfortunately is this option not as granular as the old one.

But at least is WindoesFLP good for a few laughs:
- Luna and indexing apearantly don't slow down old computers, but OE and Paint do, they were removed! :cheers:
- Taskmanager was also removed, the speech engine stayed in!
- WinFLP is very well optimized. It runs more services and processes than my XP!

Tried to xplite it, to see if i could remove some of the nonsense that stayed in. Winlogon.exe crashed every time! So this version of windows doesn't seem to be the most stable around.

So what do you get?
A feature reduced XPSP2 and i'm really talking missing here! Lots of things that everyone would have left in, because they don't really have a toll on the system, are gone, but they left in nonsense that hardly anyone ever uses.
Minimal system is 640MB and that includes already a 192MB swapfile.

All in all i can't see any use for this, unless the only short coming of you old PC is a 1GB HDD.


:cheers:

#23 bilou_gateux

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 04:44 PM

Currently I have the feeling that I'm stupid and do not understand the sence of this topic :cheers: ???

Can somebody post

  • Where to download what
  • What to do with the downloaded item
to help me to be able to discuss here?

BTW: I'm member in M$ Connect

Peter


Microsoft Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, available exclusively to Microsoft Software Assurance customers.




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