24 replies to this topic

[alfresco]

Hi. How do I test a bootdisc in Windows XP Home to make sure it is viable,please. ? Cheers, Alpha.

[was_jaclaz]

Which kind of bootdisk?

Generally speaking, testing it in a Virtual Machine like Qemu or Virtualbox is a good test, thoug it is not a definitive one, a test on real hardware is needed anyway.

jaclaz

[alfresco]

Which kind of bootdisk?

Thanks jaclaz. It's one on a CD which I downloaded from Bootland. Cheers. Alpha.

[alfresco]

Thanks jaclaz. It's one on a CD which I downloaded from bootdisc.com Cheers. Alfresco.

[was_jaclaz]

If you download and install this:
http://www.davereyn.co.uk/download.htm
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe

It should be more than enough for your scopes.

For a more "advanced" solution, get Virtualbox:
http://www.virtualbox.org/
http://www.virtualbo.../wiki/Downloads
http://www.virtualbo...5.2_Win_x86.msi

jaclaz

[alfresco]

If you download and install this:
http://www.davereyn.co.uk/download.htm
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe

It should be more than enough for your scopes.

For a more "advanced" solution, get Virtualbox:
http://www.virtualbox.org/
http://www.virtualbo.../wiki/Downloads
http://www.virtualbo...5.2_Win_x86.msi

jaclaz

[alfresco]

If you download and install this:

It should be more than enough for your scopes.

Thanks jaclaz. I've had a look at the links but the high-tech contents are well above my modest orbit. !! I haven't a clue which download I should select and, if I did, I doubt if I could understand it. !! You said in a previous posting

a test on real hardware is needed anyway.

so I might as well go for that sort of test. Could you tell me how,please. ? Regards, Alfresco.

[was_jaclaz]

Well, no, nothing is really difficult, actually if you just click on this direct link:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe

you should download the correct Qemu Manager with Qemu integrated, that you install as any Windows app.

Then you start it and you just click on the Red "+" button to create a new Virtual Machine, a sort of wizard will guide you through the main settings, all you have to do is to select the kind of OS (for which the boot floppy you have) and leave everything as is.
Then you will get to a "Virtual Machine Configuration" leave settings on first tab as they are, in second tab "Disk Configuration" point the Floppy disk A to the image you have and check the "boot from floppy disk" option. (or same but related to CD Rom for an .iso image)

I need to know exactly WHICH floppy (or CD) image you have/want to test to give you more details.

About testing on real hardware, again generally speaking, if it's a floppy image you copy it to a real floppy with an app like DCOPYNT:
http://users.pandora...plications.html
or Winimage:
http://www.winimage.com/
if it's a CD image (.ISO file) you burn it to a real CD with your preferite burning tool or with IMGBURN:
http://www.imgburn.com/

jaclaz

[edborg]

Hi jaclaz,
I apologize for the intrusion and for the (perhaps) naive question.
Is it possible to use an emulator, like qEmu for instance, to mount and boot an HD folder without first creating an image out of it?
If not, how to create such an image?
Thanks
edborg

P.S. The folder has the exact content of a bootable USB stick created with WinBuilder.

[was_jaclaz]

@edborg
No, I am sorry, but you need to create the image anyway.

If you already have the USB stick prepared, you can image it with a dd-like tool, like dsfo/dsfi in the DSFOK package.

Otherwise, you can do the thing the other way round, you create the image (the exact size of your USB stick), test it in Qemu, and then clone the image to the stick.

You can use my MBRbatch.cmd + MKIMG.cmd to create the image:
http://www.boot-land...LPHA-t3191.html
in a rather convenient way, with the advantage, if you are storing the image on a NTFS partition, that you can make it a "sparse" file, thus occupying on the partition on HD just the part of the image that has been filled by the files you've written to it.

What I usually do, is, once I have a stick properly formatted and working, to image it with dsfo as follows:
dsfo \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE2 0 0 J:\Lexar_128MB.img
(in my case I have two hard disks, PHYSICALDRIVE0 and PHYSICALDRIVE1, so the USB stick becomes PHYSICALDRIVE2)
Then I jolt down the exact size of this "integral" image, say 131,072,000 bytes and get just the first 100 sectors for it (just to be on the safe side):
dsfo J:\Lexar_128Mb.img 0 51200 J:\Sticks_data\Lexar_128Mb.dat
Then I get all the needed info on the formatting ( with beeblebrox) and add a line in a spreadsheet, something like this:
Stick: Lexar 128Mb
Size: 131,072,000
Data: 06-80-0-1-1-14-254-63-63-240912

This way, whenever I need to create a "new" stick, I just create a new sparse image
J:\Lexar_128MB.img
the correct size, mount it with VDK, copy to it the directory structure and files, then unmount it and clone it back to the stick:
dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE2 0 0 J:\Lexar_128MB.img

If anything goes wrong for any reason, I can always check what is different on the new stick from what is in the saved J:\Sticks_data\Lexar_128Mb.dat.

jaclaz

[edborg]

@edborg
No, I am sorry, but you need to create the image anyway.

If you already have the USB stick prepared, you can image it with a dd-like tool, like dsfo/dsfi in the DSFOK package.

Otherwise, you can do the thing the other way round, you create the image (the exact size of your USB stick), test it in Qemu, and then clone the image to the stick.
......
jaclaz

Thanks, jaclaz.
No, I typically don't have the USB stick prepared, as I'd like to use an HD folder before installing to USB when debugging new builds.

I'll test what you suggest as soon as I have the time, but for now could you help me understand the reason of failure of what I've tried in the meantime to create a booting image:
1. Installed my working PE (the same installed to USB stick, with ntdetect.com, ntldr, RamBoot.ISO, winnt.sif) on an HD folder
2. Opened MagicISO
3. Dragged and dropped the whole content of the folder into it
4. Made it bootable by adding a bootsector (bootsect.bin), no emulation, 4 sectors
5. Saved the image to HD
6. Booted in qEmu with error of missing ntldr
Thanks
edborg

[was_jaclaz]

I'll test what you suggest as soon as I have the time, but for now could you help me understand the reason of failure of what I've tried in the meantime to create a booting image:
1. Installed my working PE (the same installed to USB stick, with ntdetect.com, ntldr, RamBoot.ISO, winnt.sif) on an HD folder
2. Opened MagicISO
3. Dragged and dropped the whole content of the folder into it
4. Made it bootable by adding a bootsector (bootsect.bin), no emulation, 4 sectors
5. Saved the image to HD
6. Booted in qEmu with error of missing ntldr
Thanks
edborg

There is much more into making a bootable CD than "drag 'n drop" on MagicISO.

Besides the fact that I do not "like" that app, and I simply hate the SPAMMING it's Author, under the nicknames of forkart or bartle, has repeatedly performed on this and other technical boards to "promote" his software, and I strongly suggest to use mkisofs as all other people do, some things that may be wrong:
1) isolevel, most if not all PE builds need that the CD is recorded with isolevel 4, as isolevel 3 won't work
2) CaSe oF FiLeNaMeS, they DO MATTER on CDFS
3) Order of files, depending on the size of the build, the LOADER might be "out of reach" if not near the beginning of the filesystem
4) Name of the LOADER, the "standard" bootsector for floppies and Hard disk partitions invokes NTLDR (which usually is a SETUPLDR.BIN renamed), on the contrary the "standard" "Arnes Boot Record" or "MicrosoftCorporation.IMG" 2048 bytes NO-EMULATION bootsector for CD's does invoke SETUPLDR.BIN

FYI, because I was tired of having SETUPLDR.BIN renamed to NTLDR, grldr renamed as NTLDR, NTLDR renamed as NTLDRXP, etc., I wrote a small batch to use "directly" SETUPLDR.BIN on floppies and hard disks:
http://www.boot-land...EASE-t2362.html

From what you write my guess is that #4 above applies in your case


jaclaz

[alfresco]

Well, no, nothing is really difficult, actually if you just click on this direct link:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe

1) you should download the correct Qemu Manager with Qemu integrated, that you install as any Windows app.


2) I need to know exactly WHICH floppy (or CD) image you have/want to test to give you more details.
if it's a CD image (.ISO file) you burn it to a real CD with your preferite burning tool or with
IMGBURN:http://www.imgburn.com/

Thanks jaclaz. I've been away for a while. Re: 1) How will I know the correct Manager.?
Re: 2) I didn't know if a floppy would have enough capacity so I used a CD-RW 80.

Regards,Alpha.

[was_jaclaz]

oh, oh, communication problem!

Well, no, nothing is really difficult, actually if you just click on this direct link:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe

you should download the correct Qemu Manager with Qemu integrated, that you install as any Windows app.

(emphasis added)

1) click on the link, it is a direct download link for the correct version you need.

This is a link to the download homepage:
http://www.davereyn.co.uk/download.htm
(you see that it refers to a .html page?)

This is a DIRECT LINK to the app, just click on this:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe
(you see that it refers to a .exe file?)

2) I'll try to rephrase:
WHERE did you get the image from?
WHICH Operating System is it?
HOW BIG is it?
WHICH filesystem it uses?

You see, making a bootable CD or Floppy or Hard Disk image or "real media" and booting from it a NT based system NT/2K/XP/2003 or any form of PE is COMPLETELY different from doing the same for a DOS based system DOS/Win9x/Me, and again COMPLETELY different from a Linux based one and yet again completely different from a Vista based one.

The above sentence hints that there are something like 3^2*4=36 different approaches, some similar, most completely different, and due to the problem explained here:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=2587&st=1
I am not at the moment able to correctly guess which one you need.

BTW I am gettiing really fed up with the slowness of the guys in the repair shop, anyone knows another crystal ball tuning service?



jaclaz

[Brito]

...
BTW I am gettiing really fed up with the slowness of the guys in the repair shop, anyone knows another crystal ball tuning service?
...

Hmm..

Yes, you can try this shop here --> Fine Crystal and Glassware Repair and Polishing (located in the US - sorry ) - but he seems to work very well, look here.

Or simply drop the "old ways" and move to an advanced e-based crystal ball platform which might be less expensive to maintain.

An easy-to-use simulation program that helps you analyze the risks and uncertainties associated with your Excel spreadsheet models. Through Monte Carlo simulation, Crystal Ball generates thousands of possible outcomes that you can analyze to understand the true risk landscape. Sensitivityanalysis lets you see which variables in your model have the greatest impact on your bottom line. Crystal Ball is for strategic planners, financial analysts, engineers, scientists, entrepreneurs, CPAs, marketing managers, venture capitalists, consultants, and anyone else who needs to forecast uncertain results.

Crystal Ball 4.0 (shareware) --> http://www.freedownl...ystal_Ball.html

Author here: http://www.decisioneering.com/


Maybe you should ask for a refund if possible..

[was_jaclaz]

Hmm..
...

Or simply drop the "old ways" and move to an advanced e-based crystal ball platform which might be less expensive to maintain.

.....

Sorry, Nuno, but you show your lack of experience with divinatory matters...

....there is no way digital can overcome analog in this field, just like audio:
http://en.wikipedia....._digital_sound

as it is more dependant on "states of mind" than on actual technology.

Of course there is this exception, quite handy:
http://www.thateden.co.uk/dirk/

jaclaz

[alfresco]

1) click on the link, it is a direct download link for the correct version you need.
This is a DIRECT LINK to the app, just click on this:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe
(you see that it refers to a .exe file?)

2) I'll try to rephrase:
(a) WHERE did you get the image fromb( WHICH Operating System is it?
( WHAT operating system.?
© HOW BIG is it?
(d) WHICH filesystem it uses?

Thanks for all the information. I can see that I'm well out of my league here. !!
Re:1) I've downloaded OK but have a few problems with set-up/configuration. I won't bother you with them now, as I'm having a good go at trying to sort them out. !!

RE:2) (a) BootLand.
( Windows XP Home.
© 24.47MB
(d) Don't know this I'm afraid. How can I find out.?


Regards, Alpha.
PS. Don't know what the cool guy is doing there.
I guess he's a little "b". !!!

[alfresco]

1) click on the link, it is a direct download link for the correct version you need.
This is a DIRECT LINK to the app, just click on this:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe
(you see that it refers to a .exe file?)

2) I'll try to rephrase:
(a) WHERE did you get the image fromb( WHICH Operating System is it?
( WHAT operating system.?
© HOW BIG is it?
(d) WHICH filesystem it uses?

Thanks for all the information. I can see that I'm well out of my league here. !!
Re:1) I've downloaded OK but have a few problems with set-up/configuration. I won't bother you with them now, as I'm having a good go at trying to sort them out. !!

RE:2) (a) BootLand.
( Windows XP Home.
© 24.47MB
(d) Don't know this I'm afraid. How can I find out.?


Regards, Alpha.
PS. Don't know what the cool guy is doing there.
I guess he's a little "b". !!!

[alfresco]

1) click on the link, it is a direct download link for the correct version you need.
This is a DIRECT LINK to the app, just click on this:
http://www.davereyn....etupqemuk40.exe
(you see that it refers to a .exe file?)

2) I'll try to rephrase:
(a) WHERE did you get the image fromb( WHICH Operating System is it?
( WHAT operating system.?
© HOW BIG is it?
(d) WHICH filesystem it uses?

Thanks for all the information. I can see that I'm well out of my league here. !!
Re:1) I've downloaded OK but have a few problems with set-up/configuration. I won't bother you with them now, as I'm having a good go at trying to sort them out. !!

RE:2) (a) BootLand.
( Windows XP Home.
© 24.47MB
(d) Don't know this I'm afraid. How can I find out.?


Regards, Alpha.
PS. Don't know what the cool guy is doing there.
I guess he's a little "b". !!!

[Brito]

More details are needed to understand what is happening here.

Are you using a wb project?

If so, would you please the log to see if any error is present?


Is your XP source a retail or OEM version?

[alfresco]

More details are needed to understand what is happening here.

1) Are you using a wb project?

If so, would you please the log to see if any error is present?


2) Is your XP source a retail or OEM version?

1) Sorry, but the only WB projects I know-of are concerned with planting trees and building roads etc in China.!! Could you explain, please. ?

2) OEM. Regards, Alpha.

[Brito]

What we need to know is exactly which boot disk project you are using - you mention boot land but a direct link to the page that describes the project and possibly where you've downloaded the image would help a great deal for us to know exactly how to help you.


Most projects available on boot land use WinBuilder as engine to create their results - wb is the diminuitive for the app name.

You find these projects also on the download page of the winbuilder site: http://winbuilder.net

-------------------------

Sometimes OEM windows sources cannot be used - if you have a good bandwidth - you can also download a trial version of windows 2003 and use it as source --> http://www.microsoft...llinstruct.mspx

Burn this Win2003 ISO onto a CD and use it as source for building your project if you wish to use an alternative source.

-----------


If you're still in doubt don't be afraid to write as many details as possible to describe where you're having dificulties.

[alfresco]

If you're still in doubt don't be afraid to write as many details as possible to describe where you're having dificulties.If you're still in doubt don't be afraid to write as many details as possible to describe where you're having dificulties.

Sorry Nuno, but I'm really out of my depth here and seem to be drowning in big, high-tech waves. !!
I don't even know what you mean by a boot-disk [project] The background is that I had a major crash and lost everything on both my PC and back-up and this prompted me to get a boot-disc for possible future use. Queries on AOL Message Boards produced a link to BootLand and I downloaded the Windows XP Home disc, which I burnt onto a CDRW. I wanted to make sure it was viable and thought this was the best place to ask what I thought was a straight-forward question (How do I test it.?) and expected a routine sort of answer. How wrong I was. !! From what I've read here, the test procedure is really complex and I'm reluctant to take up any more of your time and patience on (in effect) trying to teach a two-year old how to sky-dive. !!! Perhaps you could suggest a link to a helpful web-site. ? Regards, Alfresco.

[Brito]

I've been a skydiver myself for a few years now and you'd be surprised to see how many fathers drag along their kids on these adventures..

--------------

Thank you for explaining your situation - it really helps people understand the which methods are best suited for your case.

First of all you should worry about rescuing the files from your disk to a safe location, below are some good options which are easy to set up.

Later on this post I also explain how to create a LiveXP - only required if you wish to use some tools to undelete lost files from your drive or apply other recovery tools.


Do post any dificulties you have and I'll continue following your progress to see how to solve any obstacle and get everything back in order.


---------------------------------------------

Knoppix solution


If you want a ready to use a simple image to burn onto a CD and rescue your files then I suggest you to give a try on knoppix - it's a linux based live CD that will work straight out the box to copy all your files to an USB flash disk or USB hard drive.

http://www.knopper.n...x/index-en.html

----------------------------------------------

MS rescue CD

Another ready to use MS based liveCD is "Microsoft Diagnostics and Recovery Toolset" - it's a trial software but should hopefully be enough to also copy your files and even use the system restore on your crashed windows and maybe bring it back to functional status.

http://www.microsoft...ckInfoContainer

-----------------------------------------------

LiveXP


Last but not least - our own WinBuilder projects that produce XP/Vista based boot disks.

The instructions to create a LiveXP boot disk project are detailed below - other available project use similar procedure.1 - Download the whole liveXP package from here --> http://winbuilder.ne...load.php?view.8

2 - Extract all files to an empty folder and run WinBuilder.exe

3 - Click on the Play button (blue play button placed on the upper-right corner of the window)

4 - A wizard will ask to select the location of the files from your XP install CD

5 - Project will run and you should see the result on the qemu pc emulator - later you can burn this image to a CD
There were some reports that some Windows XP Home that are provided by manufacturers (OEM) can cause some trouble since they often modify the Windows source - I personally recommend using a Windows XP SP2 as source for this LiveXP project.

You can also download a trial Windows 2003 from microsoft to use as source --> http://www.microsoft...llinstruct.mspx


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All these projects create a ISO image which should be burned on a CD or DVD.

To burn these images I recommend using a program like ImgBurn (freeware) --> http://www.imgburn.c...hp?act=download



---------------------------

One other option is going to a computer repair shop and let specialized people rescue your data and re-install windows for you - costs some money but it's still an option.

Of course that we'll try to guide you as much as possible but be carefull when trying to fix your machine and always make your boot disk tests on a separate machine until you are confident enough to try repairing your damaged computer.


If any of these instructions still seem confusing please write any questions or doubts you have, take your time and write as much as needed to explain all your dificulties - good luck!

[was_jaclaz]

From what I've read here, the test procedure is really complex and I'm reluctant to take up any more of your time and patience on (in effect) trying to teach a two-year old how to sky-dive. !!!

You might want to consider that the (alas very few ) toddlers that had been teached sky-diving eventually turned out, in due time, World Champions!

Think about all the experiences and thrills you will be missing if you give up now!



jaclaz