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My Big Test


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#1 Alexei

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:52 PM

WB Errors/Serious problems.

- Download Tab -> Popup: "Can not open 7za.exe ... is used by another program."
- Problem with WB GUI (DPI) still exists! Possible workaround: add font size and pixels "translation" to WinBuilder.INI
- Access Violation at 000...0 after closing viever called from Explorer Tweaks by clicking "use modified toolbar..." (IrfanView is a default picture viewer at my PC)
- Downloads hangs up if "X" was pressed (I had to re-start WB).
- WB should track its work with Registry and delete its temp-hives before each Build (in some cases they may exist!). Only REG.EXE UNLOAD HKLM\TMP_HIVE_KEY helped! If hive is still in registry, WB\Target\proj\ directory can not be deleted!
- After several WB runs error: "out of system resources" (happened only once). What kind of resources, on which command?

WB Problems.

- I like "Backup"-feature, though:
- Custom "Backup path"?
- Delete files must be unchecked by default.
- After Backup (with delete) there is no way to Restore!
- WinBuilder.INI and log.html better be also saved.
- R-click on backup file shows "Run this script" choise.
- All WB Popups at Build time should include "Abort Build" button.
- Available servers (as I understand) shows "currently available", but it would be better to show a list of existing ("registered") servers with their availability status. (unregistered servers may be showed as well).
- Projects should be somehow linked to the Servers. It's a script mess without such links.
- Popup "File zzzz was not downloaded" should have "retry" and "stop download" buttons.
- How to delete downloaded project from WB?
- Download Error-Log is an urgently needed feature.
- Paths tab is misplaced. It has script selection panel on the left, so "Paths" should be next to "Download", though when you Click it, its left panel should be positioned to current project.
- WB error popups are not present in the Log!
- In the log: IF is often cut of after condition.
- WB internal editor doesn't have "Find" function :cheers:
- green progress bars - unprofessional (not consistent with user's color schema!).
- Search scripts for specified substring (case insensitive, etc.) Currently it's too hard to do because of encoded files.

WB suggestions/minor problems

- "Convert files to .script language" should better have "from .reg" option.
- Red X to the right (on some tabs) has poor visibility. Took some time to notice it and figure out it closes the form :cheers:
- WEB->pages - need some proof-reading
- It's not possible to select and copy text from the most of WB windows.
- Tools -> Language Tab -> Language drop down "default" is present twice!
- Tooltip on the "Play"-button says "Run...", so it's a "Run"-button, not "Play".
- "Stop on Error" feature is desirable. At least show some error stats during the buils, so user could hit "Stop".
- WB allows to run two instances from the same dir (that may create a mess).
- Empty "i" lines in the log don't look good.
- "Tools" needs more explanations (confusion: are they tools installed on PE?)
- Showing Project Name during the build would be nice.
- Option to switch off progress bar (or just change its granularity) to speedup the build.
- R-click on the log -> Open Edit Window -> Popup with one line (default editor with full Log expected)
- Refresh option after external asynchronous changes (to avoid complications: restart WB and navigate to the same GUI point, if possible).
- Main "Stop"-button looks like "X" letter, though it shoudld be like cross (just fix ends of the lines).
- Using gifs from Boot-Land is highly questionable in HTML Log.
- R-click menu on a project tree may be very useful. For ex.: Delete,Edit,Verify,...
- Catch output from Make ISO into window? (I provided a snippet some time ago)
- Save/Restore Backup should have progress bar.
- Nice to have: an option to add source script lines (as is) to the log
- Context search becomes a must. Too many files and folders.
- Pause flag on each script (the developer or user would be able to see what's going on) at each build step.
- Download: progress info in italics looks "unusual"
- Download: tree panel scrolls horizontally by itself (during download)
- WB tabs and fonts are inconsistent with user's settings.
- What "View last log" is supposed to do?
- "Save as log.html" actually means "View this Log in Default Browser".
- Log HTML creation is a way too slow!

Live XP project / Scripts :

- "XP Live CD" project is in LiveXP directory. Inconsistency! (How end-user would know that?)
- Default uninstall of Virtual Box is incomplete (leaves files in "Program Files", System32, and "Legasy" entries in the registry (with SYSTEM access rights!).
- Explorer Settings hangs for about 1sec with msg "All done" (confusing)
- "RamPE to HDD" does not allow to be cancelled other then killing WB from task mgr!
(thanks for warning, anyway).
- Show all parameters from all scripts (and navigate if clicked).
- Ignored OsLoadOptions specified in 3-hivesFactory.script.
- Build errors with WHS files on 2003 RC2
- a lot of "automatic" services that did not start.
Options: 1. exclude them 2. make them "manual" 3. start them (less likely)
- "system" disk defragmenter works from "Computer management", but not from disk properties->tools
- My Computer -> Control Panel -> Admin Tools -> whatever - doesn't work:
Err msg: "X:\I386\SYSTEM32\name.MSC Access is denied.", where name=COMPMGMT,DEVMGMT,etc.
- PENetwork: if autostart refused ("No" clicked) and then PENetwork manually started from desktop:
hangs on "Starting Browser service".
- SetResolution: I use 896x600 on VM. Please add or, better, allow any custom resolution.

:cheers:
Alexei

#2 Brito

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 01:56 PM

Hi Alexei, thanks for posting your test results! :cheers:

I have only one request (if you don't mind):

Please post these bugs on the bugtracker here: http://www.boot-land...ocom=bugtracker

The link is also available next to the download link on the top of each page and find sections for posting bugs directly related to winbuilder.exe or liveXP (in this case liveXP is based on nativeEx so these bugs should be placed there as well)

How does it help?

It will allow to categorize, assign priorities and also modify the bug status until it is solved - adding the bugs here and discussing them will only make it difficult to remember which bug we're trying to solve or left to be worked.

--------------------------------


While posting bugs - please add as many possible steps or conditions to replicate them. I can work on them right away but it's hard sometimes to make them come to surface and some guidance is very welcome.


--------------------------------

Some bugs you mention as related to wb are details needed to be handled by scripts.

Download Tab --> need more details - what actions lead to the error message?

wb GUI DPI --> what resolution/DPI do you use, what graphic cards, is it dual-monitor, etc

Acess Violation --> Maybe you could look on the script code and see what function is causing the message?

Download hangs up --> When? Do you mean download center or while processing a script? Are you sure that it's the download function? What? which script? was the script prepared for handling these cases. Sometimes people assume a download is always completed and the following commands assume it as affirmative without checking that the file really exists. (it seems to me that both downloads work ok except when handling downloads with no file extension)

Hive tracking --> In the loaded hives - it might be the author's wish to keep these hives loaded or at least the project should unload them either when it's finished and/or when it's starting from scratch.

Out of resources --> please repeat your test and post exact steps to reproduce.

---------------------

Custom "Backup path" --> can be added but is it really necessary?

Delete files must be unchecked by default --> It checked so that the enduser can either redownload a fresh copy or restore a previous backup

After Backup (with delete) there is no way to Restore! --> Yes there is --> Restore the latest backup and all contents are restored.

WinBuilder.INI and log.html better be also saved --> would this be a useful feature?

R-click on backup file shows "Run this script" choise. --> this is a bug indeed!

All WB Popups at Build time should include "Abort Build" button. --> You mean the error messages?

Available servers (as I understand) shows "currently available", but it would be better to show a list of existing ("registered") servers with their availability status. (unregistered servers may be showed as well). --> Can be done but it will take a good while until we can work on it.


Projects should be somehow linked to the Servers. It's a script mess without such links. --> this is a decision from the author. The download servers already show which files need to be updated if new versions arise but we can't check individually the each file against each different server to see if it's updated.

WB error popups are not present in the Log! --> please post a pratical example

WB internal editor doesn't have "Find" function --> I also miss it..

green progress bars - unprofessional (not consistent with user's color schema!). --> Already removed on the next beta

Search scripts for specified substring (case insensitive, etc.) Currently it's too hard to do because of encoded files. --> do we need to find strings inside these encoded files? We can still read perfectly the filenames of files encoded inside each script.

-----

Don't have much time for completing all the topics you mention but here are a few more:

Using gifs from Boot-Land is highly questionable in HTML Log. --> where should they be placed? If the log is meant to be published on the web how/where is it possible to include them. If boot-land.net is offline then you won't see those images at all but we're here and support well any bandwith load.

Refresh option after external asynchronous changes (to avoid complications: restart WB and navigate to the same GUI point, if possible). --> Very hard to know exactly when a refresh is needed unless the script author specifically asks for one - if this is the case then it will return to the latest open script.

Option to switch off progress bar (or just change its granularity) to speedup the build. --> Very hard to know when your project will be finished and you won't gain so much in speed. If you compare to pebuilder look how the log messages slow so much the overall processing. In winbuilder this is not the case and we get an overall speed boost. To speed even more you can run winbuilder as minimized and no there will be no window refresh to slowdown processing.


--------------

Adding too many options only brings more complications to something that is meant to be simple in the first place.

As Martin (draugen) once stated - we might end up suffering of featurabilis

---

Please consider posting these ideas and bug reports on the bug tracker - otherwise it will be difficult to split up each different topic and properly discuss them.

Thanks! :cheers:

#3 Alexei

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 08:26 PM

@Nuno,
Let's say, it was "priliminary publication" of my work notes :cheers:
I'll work on it more, but it may take weeks to document everything properly, and I just tested one project :cheers:

Here comes an idea:
1. WB writes a trace log of all actions made by both WB and User (each click)
2. WB has a hot key to save a WB screenshot to the log.
3. There is a standalone application that writes WB screenshot if WB hangs up.
Most probably this log should be in HTML format to include pictures.
If we had it, I would be able to supply not just my "work notes" but a log that would tell it all :cheers:
Yes, I know, it's kind of huge (and boring?) job to implement that, but can you imagin how much time it would save to everybody? I also believe, simplisity of getting/submitting such logs would greatly improve feedback.
There is another advantage of such logging: it's easy to make a "player" that would extract user's actions from the log and execute them on your PC, so you could see what's going on and even compare with the pictures :cheers:
:cheers:
Alexei

#4 pscEx

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:04 PM

@Nuno,
Let's say, it was "priliminary publication" of my work notes :cheers:
I'll work on it more, but it may take weeks to document everything properly, and I just tested one project :cheers:

Here comes an idea:
1. WB writes a trace log of all actions made by both WB and User (each click)
2. WB has a hot key to save a WB screenshot to the log.
3. There is a standalone application that writes WB screenshot if WB hangs up.
Most probably this log should be in HTML format to include pictures.
If we had it, I would be able to supply not just my "work notes" but a log that would tell it all :cheers:
Yes, I know, it's kind of huge (and boring?) job to implement that, but can you imagin how much time it would save to everybody? I also believe, simplisity of getting/submitting such logs would greatly improve feedback.
There is another advantage of such logging: it's easy to make a "player" that would extract user's actions from the log and execute them on your PC, so you could see what's going on and even compare with the pictures :cheers:
:cheers:
Alexei

Alexei!

I mostly agree, but let me add one item I'm worrying (w/o publishing) since a long time.

In current time everything has to have user definable skins, themes, etc.
Following this common acceptance, one year ago Nuno changed the log from a 95% good and well informing .txt file to a nice looking .html, unfortunatelly loosing a lot information or hiding that information (causing the developer to read several lines and compare with the script, in order to get what he wants to get).
BTW: Why on every look into my log, a connection to boot-land.net is made, in order to get the pictures 'checkmark', 'error' etc.? :cheers:

My suggestion:

A log is not a tool for the 'normal' user to show how beautiful, successful and fast his / her project has been build.
A log is thought to be interpreted by developers in this forum, in order to find out why something went wrong.

Therefore the log in my opinion should contain everything (including the new mentioned warnings by Alexei) in a pure text file.

The issue is not beautyness, the issue is completeness of information!

Peter

#5 Alexei

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 04:11 AM

A log is thought to be interpreted by developers in this forum, in order to find out why something went wrong.
Therefore the log in my opinion should contain everything (including the new mentioned warnings by Alexei) in a pure text file.

Absolutely! :cheers: :cheers:
BTW, I'm having discussion with MedEvil, that includes loogging issues :cheers:
http://www.boot-land...?...&qpid=24267

However, HTML is also fine if it doesn'y have too much formatting. I mean "<BR>" after each text line would not make much harm :cheers: Though, of course, choise of TXT or HTML should be up to user, i.e. developer.

Additional note: I believe, Nuno initially made Log to debug WB and provide users with easy way to post WB/scripts problems to the forum. It's different time now. WB is mature enough to go for perfection and this requires perfectly detailed logs :cheers:

:cheers:
Alexei

#6 Galapo

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 06:51 AM

- SetResolution: I use 896x600 on VM. Please add or, better, allow any custom resolution.

I'll add it to my to-do list.

Thanks,
Galapo.

#7 Galapo

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:31 AM

OK, done. Grab it from my page or the LiveXP server.

Regards,
Galapo.


I'll add it to my to-do list.

Thanks,
Galapo.



#8 Alexei

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 11:09 AM

OK, done. Grab it from my page or the LiveXP server.

Regards,
Galapo.

:cheers: Thanks!
:cheers:
Alexei

#9 Alexei

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 12:42 PM

N: Please post these bugs on the bugtracker
A: Done for most important
N: Download Tab --> need more details - what actions lead to the error message?
A: The problem is with inability to stop/retry. Error itself was reasonable.
N: Do you mean download center or while processing a script?
A: Pressing "X" While downloading updates hangs WB.
N: After Backup (with delete) there is no way to Restore! --> Yes there is --> Restore the latest backup and all contents are restored.
A: No! Only WEB and DOWNLOAD are available, no TOOLS!
N: Projects should be somehow linked to the Servers. It's a script mess without such links. --> this is a decision from the author. The download servers already show which files need to be updated if new versions arise but we can't check individually the each file against each different server to see if it's updated.
A: If updates are available from 2 or more servers and script moved to a new place script duplication happens!
N: Search scripts for specified substring (case insensitive, etc.) Currently it's too hard to do because of encoded files. --> do we need to find strings inside these encoded files? We can still read perfectly the filenames of files encoded inside each script.
A: Are you saying that I have to expand all files from all scripts manually then do search then erase all expanded files each time I'm looking for something inside encoded content?
N: Refresh option after external asynchronous changes (to avoid complications: restart WB and navigate to the same GUI point, if possible). --> Very hard to know exactly when a refresh is needed unless the script author specifically asks for one - if this is the case then it will return to the latest open script.
A. I meant manual refresh during WB standby (not when building). For ex. I edited script directly from some editor. Currently I have to close WB, start it again and navigate to the same place in a big tree.
N:Option to switch off progress bar (or just change its granularity) to speedup the build. --> Very hard to know when your project will be finished and you won't gain so much in speed. If you compare to pebuilder look how the log messages slow so much the overall processing. In winbuilder this is not the case and we get an overall speed boost. To speed even more you can run winbuilder as minimized and no there will be no window refresh to slowdown processing.
A: I meant two things: 1. bar can be replaced with NN% or very small pie-chart 2. You can check progress and redraw progress bar not more often then (for ex.) 0.1 sec ,
:cheers:
Alexei
PS
I left ideas here (for now) to not mix them with bugs/important problems.

#10 Brito

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 12:51 PM

Hi Alexei!

It's great to hear so much feedback and ideas and thanks for taking the time to place them on the bugtracker - which can also be used to ask for new features/behavior modifications.

Tried to answer to each of the bugs you've posted on the bugtracker but some still need a few more details so that they can be reproduced and correctly debugged.

---------

Regarding the backup/restore option - you're right!

Will try to spend some time this weekend on a bug hunting season! :cheers:




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