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#26 sanbarrow

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 08:13 PM

sorry for the stupid question ... where is "Choose 'MOA' in the combo box" - don't see it after following the steps. :cheers:

#27 pscEx

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 10:33 AM

sorry for the stupid question ... where is "Choose 'MOA' in the combo box" - don't see it after following the steps. :cheers:


I tried on my system and it works.

The only things that could have gone wrong:
  • You must unzip nativeEx_MOA.zip with paths.
    Then you get a folder '\Projects\nativeEx_barebone\!WBManager' and a folder 'Projects\nativeEx_barebone\Apps\MOA'
  • Sometimes Winbulder doe not react on the first click of 'Read Constellations'.
    Then you have to click again.
Peter

#28 sanbarrow

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 03:52 PM

Sorry Peter - I was to dumb to follow your instructions :cheers:

Now I tried again and got a first working CD.
Peter - how do you add directories and files to the home-directories ?
Moa has directories like this
R:\home\anybody\application data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys
including crypted keys.
They are not present in your built - but I guess they are required.

#29 pscEx

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:03 PM

Peter - how do you add directories and files to the home-directories ?

Two ways:
  • Direct by a DirMake script command
  • Indirect by using buildModel's Copy-File or Copy-File-Safe function.
    Here the target directories are automatically created if not yet existing.

Moa has directories like this
R:\home\anybody\application data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys
including crypted keys.
They are not present in your built - but I guess they are required.

I kow and took care of this in the script (see the 'target drive' in the script GUI).

But I think that is currently a secondary issue.
The primary issue is to bring VMWare player to run under a 'normal' PE created by WinBuilder.
If that runs we can step to the MOA solution.
(see my first statement below)

Peter

#30 sanbarrow

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:35 PM

...
But I think that is currently a secondary issue.
The primary issue is to bring VMWare player to run under a 'normal' PE created by WinBuilder.
If that runs we can step to the MOA solution.
(see my first statement below)

Peter


Can't follow your reasoning - I just meant to say that you may need this directories too.
I just mentioned MOA as VMplayer is running there ...

When I made the Workstation plugins I noticed that this directories must be present ...

Anyway - I no longer think that it is worth the effort to think about a MOA to Winbuilder port.
This would result in a lame compromise ...

MOA works good because it uses a lot of hardcoded paths and does not localize any directory names.
All this is completely different with Winbuilder.

Well back to VMplayer ...
Peter - have a look at the XPE-crypto plugin. I believe you need parts of it

:cheers:

#31 pscEx

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:17 PM

Can't follow your reasoning - I just meant to say that you may need this directories too.

I did not see the difference between 'vmware' and 'microsoft'. Maybe it depends on Sunday :cheers:

Peter - have a look at the XPE-crypto plugin. I believe you need parts of it

I'm going to check (tomorrow ...)

Thanks for your hints :cheers:

Peter

#32 pscEx

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:56 AM

First success :cheers:
vmplayer.gif

I'm going now to test and to optimize.

BTW: This start of player is w/o crypto stuff.

Peter

#33 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:01 PM

Hey - congratulations

:cheers:

Peter - can you already start VMs ?
Here is a very little VM:

config.version = "8"

virtualHW.version = "6"

displayName = "nackter gehts nimmer"

guestOS = "winXPPro"

memsize = "8"



scsi0.present = "false"

usb.present = "false"

sound.present = "false"

floppy0.present = "false"

Paste into a textfile - rename to test.vmx and try to start from ramdisk.

Peter from now on I guess that I know most of the error-messages you may receive.
You got my phone number :cheers:

#34 pscEx

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:01 PM

Hey - congratulations

:cheers:

Peter - can you already start VMs ?
Here is a very little VM:

config.version = "8"

 virtualHW.version = "6"

 displayName = "nackter gehts nimmer"

 guestOS = "winXPPro"

 memsize = "8"

 

 scsi0.present = "false"

 usb.present = "false"

 sound.present = "false"

 floppy0.present = "false"

Paste into a textfile - rename to test.vmx and try to start from ramdisk.

Peter from now on I guess that I know most of the error-messages you may receive.
You got my phone number :cheers:

Here the result using a burned CD:
vmtest.gif
Nothing else, no error message or similar.

Good? Bad? Medium?

Peter

#35 TheHive

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:13 PM

That looks good.

#36 phox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:17 PM

Here the result using a burned CD:
vmtest.gif
Nothing else, no error message or similar.

Good? Bad? Medium?

Peter



Great!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

What is the purpose besides academic challenge?

#37 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:37 PM

Great!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

What is the purpose besides academic challenge?

This is in no way simply an academic challenge - with VMplayer from PE you can run applications "from" a LiveCD that are completely impossible from a naked PE. As VMs also can have full native access to local filesystems you can use this in many ways.
Simple example may be a small NT 4 VM that can be then used to access an old NT 4 installation without messing up the local filesystem as you would do when using PE ...

Nothing else, no error message or similar.

Good? Bad? Medium?


Peter - don't you get a box that asks you for a vmx-file ?
If not - then this is bad.

Try to doubleclick the sample-vmx I posted above - what does happen ?
If the file association is not there try to run

vmplayer.exe sample.vmx

#38 phox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:43 PM

As VMs also can have full native access to local filesystems
you can use this in many ways.



How?

I gave up using VMware Player on host system
because I have not been able to access local files.

Please, give me some explanation how I could make it work?

#39 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 06:55 PM

I gave up using VMware Player on host system
because I have not been able to access local files.


Do you know our vmxbuilder tool ?
http://petruska.star...html#VMXBuilder

Rob and me are adding a missing feature at the moment : creation of rawdisk-descriptorfiles.
This already works in our pre-release tests ...

Anyway - normally VMplayer does not allow creation of VMs - including of creation of virtual disks that are mapped to physical disks.
Nowadays you either have to create a small textfile from scratch or use VMware workstation to create this virtual disks that are mapped to physical disks.
See this example for such a textfile

# Disk DescriptorFile

version=1

CID=54bcc741

parentCID=ffffffff

createType="fullDevice"



# Extent description

RW 156296385 FLAT "\\.\PhysicalDrive0" 0



# The Disk Data Base

#DDB

ddb.virtualHWVersion = "6"

ddb.geometry.cylinders = "9729"

ddb.geometry.heads = "255"

ddb.geometry.sectors = "63"

ddb.geometry.biosCylinders = "9729"

ddb.geometry.biosHeads = "255"

ddb.geometry.biosSectors = "63"

ddb.adapterType = "lsilogic"

ddb.toolsVersion = "0"

This textfile is a description of the first physical disks of a VMware host.
A VM can access the disk through this descriptor.
This descriptor textfiles are NOT portable. You must create them host-specific.
So usually VMplayer does not offer the option to use physical disks as it simply lacks the descriptorfile creation- feature.

With the next version of our vmxbuilder this feature will be included.
So tomorrow you can use physical disks even if you only have VMplayer.

I will update this post when we are ready for release.


Peter - if you start the sample vmx-file please watch out for the following:

check in taskmanager - does a vmware-vmx.exe process start ?
do you get a vmware.log file in the same directory ?
do you get a new file with extension *.nvram ?

#40 phox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:04 PM

Do you know our vmxbuilder tool ?
http://petruska.star...html#VMXBuilder

Rob and me are adding a missing feature at the moment : creation of rawdisk-descriptorfiles.
This already works in our pre-release tests ...

Anyway - normally VMplayer does not allow creation of VMs - including of creation of virtual disks that are mapped to physical disks.
Nowadays you either have to create a small textfile from scratch or use VMware workstation to create this virtual disks that are mapped to physical disks.
See this example for such a textfile

# Disk DescriptorFile

version=1

CID=54bcc741

parentCID=ffffffff

createType="fullDevice"



# Extent description

RW 156296385 FLAT "\\.\PhysicalDrive0" 0



# The Disk Data Base

#DDB

ddb.virtualHWVersion = "6"

ddb.geometry.cylinders = "9729"

ddb.geometry.heads = "255"

ddb.geometry.sectors = "63"

ddb.geometry.biosCylinders = "9729"

ddb.geometry.biosHeads = "255"

ddb.geometry.biosSectors = "63"

ddb.adapterType = "lsilogic"

ddb.toolsVersion = "0"

This textfile is a description of the first physical disks of a VMware host.
A VM can access the disk through this descriptor.
This descriptor textfiles are NOT portable. You must create them host-specific.
So usually VMplayer does not offer the option to use physical disks as it simply lacks the descriptorfile creation- feature.

With the next version of our vmxbuilder this feature will be included.
So tomorrow you can use physical disks even if you only have VMplayer.

I will update this post when we are ready for release.

Ulli



Thank you, but:

This is far from comfortable and user friendly solution
for ordinary user like me.

BTW: I am even not able to properly read your post
and for sure not able to implement it!

#41 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:29 PM

This is far from comfortable and user friendly solution
for ordinary user like me.


Yes - not now - but tomorrow it will be - promised :cheers:

#42 pscEx

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:58 PM

How?

I gave up using VMware Player on host system
because I have not been able to access local files.

Please, give me some explanation how I could make it work?


@Phox,
Please try to understand this post in the sence how it is meant by me. :cheers:
It is no confrontation, just an explanation.

Currently we are trying to add VMWare (working) into a ISO PE.

There are still many issues to be solved.

Mainly sanbarrow and me are working on that.

Any complain or similar are currently too early, because we are still really fighting with the topic itself.
Of course, real suggestions are welcome!

Therfore IMHO posts are only welcome if they bring us nearer to the final solution.

As you know, I'm always open to hear, think about, and accept critics, but in this case it is too early.
It will only cause (time consumpting) explanations.

Peter

#43 phox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:36 PM

@Phox,
Please try to understand this post in the sence how it is meant by me. :cheers:
It is no confrontation, just an explanation.

Currently we are trying to add VMWare (working) into a ISO PE.

There are still many issues to be solved.

Mainly sanbarrow and me are working on that.

Any complain or similar are currently too early, because we are still really fighting with the topic itself.
Of course, real suggestions are welcome!

Therfore IMHO posts are only welcome if they bring us nearer to the final solution.

As you know, I'm always open to hear, think about, and accept critics, but in this case it is too early.
It will only cause (time consumpting) explanations.

Peter



I am sorry that you have misunderstand me:

1. I did not criticize your work,
2. I think that what I have seen in your post is great and
3. I just used the opportunity to stress again
unnecessary transfer of users responsibility to Forum.

You know that on a technical level I could not help you.

#44 pscEx

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:37 PM

:cheers:
Peter

#45 pscEx

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:16 PM

Peter - if you start the sample vmx-file please watch out for the following:

check in taskmanager - does a vmware-vmx.exe process start ?
do you get a vmware.log file in the same directory ?
do you get a new file with extension *.nvram ?

@sanbarrow,

sorry, this went lost inside so much of different stuff.

Tomorrow I'm looking for that and will send new reports.

Peter

#46 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:19 PM

Phox - if you are interested in the question "what is it good for ? " in general - please have a look at this post
http://www.boot-land...?...0&start=100
or watch some of the videos listed here:
http://sanbarrow.com/moa.html#videos

@ Peter - it looks like you are making pretty good progress - with the first WS 4.5. plugin I made I had several roadblocks and needed half a year till I made it work

#47 phox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:41 PM

Phox - if you are interested in the question "what is it good for ? " in general - please have a look at this post
http://www.boot-land...?...0&start=100
or watch some of the videos listed here:
http://sanbarrow.com/moa.html#videos



Could you quantify how many ordinary users
are capable to do it your way?

I do it much simpler: first, I make Ghost copy of the partition
and then do whatever is necessary on actual partition.

If I succeed, good, if not, I return the copy.

#48 sanbarrow

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 11:19 PM

Could you quantify how many ordinary users
are capable to do it your way?


What do you mean ? - building a MOA-CD like the one used in those videos is as easy as making a winbuilderCD and for the demonstrated VMware stuff you really do not need advanced VMware knowhow.
Anyway - I agree - this way of using LiveCDs + VMs in tandem is quite new.

It may be quite uncommon now - but it allows things you don't even think about when using standalone PEs.
Things like logging into a domain , running RDP as server ... become trivial if you start to think of a LiveCD as a PE+VM tandem.

#49 phox

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 05:37 AM

What do you mean ? - building a MOA-CD like the one used in those videos is as easy as making a winbuilderCD and for the demonstrated VMware stuff you really do not need advanced VMware knowhow.
Anyway - I agree - this way of using LiveCDs + VMs in tandem is quite new.

It may be quite uncommon now - but it allows things you don't even think about when using standalone PEs.
Things like logging into a domain , running RDP as server ... become trivial if you start to think of a LiveCD as a PE+VM tandem.



I trust in your technical excellence.

Without Nuno, Peter and people like you, there will be no
breakthroughs on this Forum.

That is main reason why I am Forum member and trying hard
to absorb some of that excellence.

I hope that given enough time, even I will learn to use it.

Right now, I am not able just to read treads like this one,
not to mention productive participation.

So please, have a mercy and bring down discussions to the
level of plain English, if you want more members to follow.

Without that, Forum will be divided on technical aristocracy
and the poor plebs, giving up hope just to be able to understand
what’s going on. I hope it didn’t already happened.

Thank you.

#50 pscEx

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:22 AM

Step #2:
:cheers:
VMWare_OK.gif

CD with BootSDI and RAM drive.

Attached the RAM drive content.
As to be seen in the logs there are still some issues with networking.

Peter

Attached File  ImDisk__R_.zip   495.76KB   183 downloads




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