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Little Angel


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#1 Oleg_II

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 06:01 AM

Another request: would it still be possible to have a trial version without time limits?

Yea, and without restrictions to one only computer (hardware dependant) :loleverybody: Or, maybe make it possible for those who want to buy a few copies (volume purchase :w00t:

#2 windrv

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 06:08 AM

Little Angel is a tool package for capturing live windows image(s).

This package at this moment consists of mainly 4 tools; including wdmon.sys, wdlst.exe, cpyfil.exe & cpyfil.cmd (using vshadow_*.exe).

It monitors file usages with the driver, wdmon.sys, from system booting to any point of time during system usage.

Using wdlst.exe, you can place markers at any time during the system running for analysis.

wdlst.exe also helps you generate a filelist of your system, a list of files that have been accessed by the system, from booting to the time of filelist generation. This filelist is just a plain txt file which you can edit using notepad.

After generating the filelist, you can also use wdlst.ext to calculate the size of all the files in the list to estimate how much diskspace it will take up, facilitating you to make a partition image file to hold them up for booting up as a memory disk or for writing to a hard disk partition for use later.

cpyfil.exe lets you copy files from the filelist to a drive (could be a disk/partition image file mounted up by vdk/imdisk/filedisk). But cpyfil.exe is not a live-image copying tool. You can only use it on a system image not running alive.

For live image copying, you can use cpylst.cmd which in turn calls the respective xp or 2k3 version of vshadow copy for living copying.

So you can analyse the filelist you create about your system at different points of time of usage and decide what you are going to do.

You can also make a filelist based on the knowledge that you gather yourself or from what you read about the work of bold fortune or others and use that filelist to prepare a windows system image from your system for use.

WB can be customized to take advantage of this package to do other works of sization, componentization, universalization, etc. directly from a live running system image or from a Windows Setup CD/DVD.

You may also try to use it for PE as well.

But Little Angel is intended mainly for building system image(s) from live running normal full version of windows. And because this can be done, it may present a better alternative to using PE simply because of the limitations and restrictions, whether functional or legal, posed by using PE.

LA represents a new paradigm and a new way of making customized windows system image and is different from using:

1. nlite (& Microsoft Windows Setup CD/DVD) - requiring installation

2. xplite (bolde fortune way)- deleting files

3. winbuilder/bartpe - selecting files and building from setup CD/DVD

4. Windows Embedded - selecting files and building from a file database of Microsoft itself

LA can be used by ordinary users with ease without much scripting or programming knowledge. Or ordinary users can use filelists prepared by other more advanced users or advanced tools.

#3 Oleg_II

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:06 AM

It reminds me something like XPlite:it doesn't delete files of one installation like XPlite dows but recreate a new installation as it was the previous one with deleted files. Does it optimize the regestry too?

#4 was_jaclaz

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 08:26 AM

Maybe a link to the app would be appropriate :loleverybody: :w00t:

jaclaz

#5 windrv

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 08:52 AM

As advised, LA is downloadable at:

http://www.disklessa....php?name=down2

#6 was_jaclaz

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 12:36 PM

SERVICE POST:

To clarify things a bit, "Little Angel" just like "Diskless Angel" is a COMMERCIAL product.

The link is for a DEMO of the program.

AFAIR, but I may be wrong, when first released "Diskless Angel" had not the same "restrictive" license (which now has).

Since windrv (or his company) also provides for a number of Free/Open Source apps:
http://www.disklessa...hp?name=product

I will again make an exception to Rule #4:
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules

Nonetheless, this thread has nothing to do with winbuilder, and I am moving it to where it belongs:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=26

jaclaz

#7 windrv

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 01:10 AM

Yea, and without restrictions to one only computer (hardware dependant) :loleverybody: Or, maybe make it possible for those who want to buy a few copies (volume purchase :w00t:


da is designed in this way to prevent it from being pirated from one computer to another only.

Any suggestions of good alternatives about how to prevent piracy issues?

#8 windrv

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 01:37 AM

@jaclaz

I notice that WB is a very mature project in making and customizing PE.

And I suggested if WB would march forward a new direction of making and customizing Windows proper in the light of the functinal and legal restriction about using PE.

Many developers here have shown a lot of interest in doing so at:

http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2690

LA represents just such an alternative and simple way of doing so. And as I said, WB could be enhanced as an advanced tool for users in this connection as well.

Perhaps, you would also agree with me that there is nothing inherent in WB that restricts it to be supporting PE only. :loleverybody:

#9 Oleg_II

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 02:04 AM

da is designed in this way to prevent it from being pirated from one computer to another only.

Well, that is the main reason for not trying/buying it for me personally. No criticism, just my point of view as of a potential user :loleverybody:

Any suggestions of good alternatives about how to prevent piracy issues?

Like it or not you can't beat all piracy. And you know it - you live too close to China :w00t:
But treat all potential customers as pirates... Well, it's a strange marketing policy, especially from a company which advertizes among the features of the product:

. No expiry for software with time limit

:w00t:

#10 windrv

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 03:07 AM

@Oleg_II

Sorry. Please do not put words into my mouth!

I did not say potential customers are pirates.

Only that software piracy is a widespread phenomenon. We just use our own defence to safeguard ourselves. Just like you lock your door. You don't treat everybody as burglar. Do you?

#11 was_jaclaz

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 11:10 AM

@windrv

I remember having a similar "talk" with you at 911CD.

Points, as I see it are as follows:
1) there is nothing "wrong" or "bad" about COMMERCIAL applications, programmers are workers like everyone else, and they need to earn a living and to eat like everyone else.
2) the boot-land community is however founded by (mostly) amateurs and a few professionals that partecipate to it in their spare time.
3) we like the idea of sharing and exchanging our knowledge on PC technicalities, on a free (as in freedom) and in a free (as in free beer) basis.
4) the boot-land community does respect the concept of intellectual property, complying to licenses and to Law, I personally try to do as much as I can to enforce this policy on the board for the (few) cases AFAIK where a potential breaking of license or Law can be envisioned
5) since the main scope of the board is providing a tool (Winbuilder) and a number of projects (Native_Ex, LiveXP, VistaPE, etc.) and discuss all the possibilities, applications and whatever for non-professional users, (read honest but moneyless people) we try as much as we can to find ways to avoid the use of Commercial software and promote as much as we can the use of Freeware or, better yet, Open Source software.
6) thus we won't allow the use of the board for advertisement of Commercial software, particularly, exactly because of point #4 above, we are very concerned when an announcement of the release of a Commercial (or however licensed under what we find a restrictive license) program is inserted inside a thread, as the casual user may think that we are somehow involved in the making of the program, or in it's sales, or that another "independent" member recommends it. With all due respect, the Author or Rights Owner of a software cannot be defined as independent in his judgements on the software he wrote/owns.
We have a typical example with member forkart a.k.a. bartle, that has spammed half the internet boards of the world to sneakily promote his software.

This said:

Perhaps, you would also agree with me that there is nothing inherent in WB that restricts it to be supporting PE only.

That's all the point in the Free-as-in-freedom part, everyone can use it to do whatever he sees it fit to, and nothing prohibits to use it in connection with Commercial apps of any kind, as the number of .scripts already available demonstrate.
But the two things MUST be kept clearly separated, no user should be induced to think that the ONLY solution to his problems is this or that program, it has to be a CHOICE of an informed user the decision to buy a software instead of another.

jaclaz

#12 windrv

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:41 AM

@jaclaz

Let us be more realistic!

The very use of WB for making PE in itself is a promotion act for Microsoft Windows system which is a very COMMERCIAL product.

And in this forum, we also notice that a lot of other commercial products are discussed and mentioned. Whether it is a kind of promotion through concealed identities are difficult to know. At least we are honest.

Either we opt to ban all mentioning of commercial products or treat all products in terms of technical solutions they provide. People coming here wish to find solutions; whether they prefer free or open-source ware or prefer using commercial ware as solutions should be up to other forumers' own choice. Discrimination and prejudice are not conducive to technical advances.

Remember, we are all riding on the same boat; the COMMERCIAL BOAT OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS!

#13 Nuno Brito

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 09:33 AM

Hi Windrv, it's nothing personal - I would really like to try out more often all your projects but as you've mentioned we already have to live side-by-side with a Microsoft Windows system which gives more than enough headaches to solve these imposed limitations on boot disks.

Having a project depending exclusively on commercial apps with time trials would make a wb project itself become a trial by itself and then we could compare it to similar MS projects like the former erd commander which already comes as full trial download straight from the MS server.

So, we look for those free answers that even MS doesn't like to advertise as possible since there is no profit involved and whenever possible get rid of any trial software that limits these projects as years pass by.

Your team apps are excellent and I'm a big fan of all your work - maybe one day if a non-time trial demo version appears we can use them more often.

:loleverybody:

#14 Alexei

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:22 AM

da is designed in this way to prevent it from being pirated from one computer to another only.

Any suggestions of good alternatives about how to prevent piracy issues?

I don't think, any special actions against piracy are necessary.
More then that, any protection is negative for your business :loleverybody:
Here are my reasons:
- Any protected product will be cracked, regardles of anything :w00t:
- Only businesses have real necessity to buy software licenses (software audit may cost them too much).
- If price for individual user is right (product is "insignificant purchase") he/she would usually prefer legal purchase to warez.
- In business, clients make profit, not prices. I mean, cyrculation of pirated versions may make you more money than protection because it's a free advertisement of your products and your business :w00t:
MS is a different story. Its business can not grow anymore, so instead of getting new clients it tries to squize money from existing clients and "pirates". It's a really damaging to the company image, but they have no other choise.

True story: Long time ago, russian zar Peter The Great tried to introduce potato to willagers. That attempt failed terribly. To solve the problem he ordered to setup several small potato plantations controlled by government and guard them with military force. As a result potato instantly spreaded around. :w00t:

BTW, what is the price of LA? No sain customer would accept any license just to see the price tag, neither did I :w00t:

:w00t:
Alexei

#15 pscEx

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:36 AM

BTW, what is the price of LA? No sain customer would accept any license just to see the price tag, neither did I :loleverybody:

At that point I also stopped browsing in your site.

Peter

#16 Oleg_II

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:55 AM

As for LA I don't think it should be sold at all as it contains M$ software inside :loleverybody:

As for DA I've already told you - it's a very interesting piece of software especially for me cause it's the only mean to support w2k boot into RAM at the moment :w00t:
But I don't like the restrictions and prefer moving to XP or Win2003 (and I mean - leagal copies that don't have such restrictions).

#17 MedEvil

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:59 AM

Absolutely agree with you Alexei.
It's a known fact that M$ became number one because of the pirated Win9x versions.

But i fear your true story is a false story. :loleverybody:
It wasn't Peter The Great but Frederick the Great (the Old Fritz), who did this.

:w00t:

#18 windrv

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 12:49 AM

As for LA I don't think it should be sold at all as it contains M$ software inside :cheers:

As for DA I've already told you - it's a very interesting piece of software especially for me cause it's the only mean to support w2k boot into RAM at the moment :cheers:
But I don't like the restrictions and prefer moving to XP or Win2003 (and I mean - leagal copies that don't have such restrictions).


Sorry, Oleg_II, could you advise us what M$ software LA does include inside?

#19 windrv

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:10 AM

I don't think, any special actions against piracy are necessary.
More then that, any protection is negative for your business :cheers:
Here are my reasons:
- Any protected product will be cracked, regardles of anything :cheers:
- Only businesses have real necessity to buy software licenses (software audit may cost them too much).
- If price for individual user is right (product is "insignificant purchase") he/she would usually prefer legal purchase to warez.
- In business, clients make profit, not prices. I mean, cyrculation of pirated versions may make you more money than protection because it's a free advertisement of your products and your business :cheers:
MS is a different story. Its business can not grow anymore, so instead of getting new clients it tries to squize money from existing clients and "pirates". It's a really damaging to the company image, but they have no other choise.

True story: Long time ago, russian zar Peter The Great tried to introduce potato to willagers. That attempt failed terribly. To solve the problem he ordered to setup several small potato plantations controlled by government and guard them with military force. As a result potato instantly spreaded around. :cheers:

BTW, what is the price of LA? No sain customer would accept any license just to see the price tag, neither did I :cheers:

:cheers:
Alexei


First, If you buy any copy of Diskless Angel License, you are entitled to have a commercial license of LA for running in the same registered machine. This is explained at:

http://www.disklessa...les.php?name=la

The second point about your arguments on whether it is good or not to enforce copy-protection scheme in software, it is only a matter of marketing considerations. Every company and everybody may perceive this issue in different ways. And I think everybody is entitled to have their own analysis and choice. Just like different people would have their own choice of religion or belief. There is nothing wrong with either this or that choice as long as they don't hurt or harm others or force it upon others contrary to the latter's own free will. It is up to you, up to everybody and up to us to have this freedom of choice.

If you find a software which is useful to you and which is not offered free, either you accept the license and buy it; or that piece of software actually is of no use to you, so please look for other alternatives. That is all that simple. You may as well judge if it is cost-effective for you to spend countless hours of your invaluable time for searching and waiting in vain for the right free tools that help you manage your work or business. Wise man/woman would not do that just for the sake of killing their invaluable time.

I respect others' choice of buying or not buying any software or releasing or not releasing any software free or open-source. Remember we also release some free and open-source software in our site and have contributed a lot of development efforts in grub4dos that has been freely enjoyed by many people.

So just let everybody has the choice for this or for that software and also let users make their own choice of using and choosing what software is fit for their use, whether free or commerical.

This forum is an excellent forum and an excellent place to make friends and meet people from everywhere. Up to this moment, it is still upholding fast:

1. freedom of expression;

2. freedom of choice; and

3. respect for individual views

I wish it will continue to uphold these principles instead of wielding the biased stick of driving people away. We could have more such discussion later in relation to the thread of The Finder at:

http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3096

#20 Oleg_II

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 02:43 AM

Sorry, Oleg_II, could you advise us what M$ software LA does include inside?

Files vshadow_2k3.exe and vshadow_xp.exe: "VolumeShadow Copy sample client Copyright ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved".
Am I wrong?

#21 windrv

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 06:28 AM

Files vshadow_2k3.exe and vshadow_xp.exe: "VolumeShadow Copy sample client Copyright ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved".
Am I wrong?


Oh yes.

We provide an additional service to Microsoft's Volume Shadow Copy Service; so LA is a value-added tool. If you do not want to use the vshadow service, then you can just skip using that service provided by Microsoft and distributed by us in the package. There are also other services that are developed by us.

If you don't like to use Microsoft's services on Microsoft Windows operation systems, it seems that you can't do nearly anything. Microsoft's services are incorporated into API or its DLL or its services or programmes. Any applications used on Microsoft operating systems need to call them in one way or the other.

We have checked the license agreement of Volume Shadow Copy Service SDK, v7.2, released by Microsoft and strictly adhere to its terms thereof.

#22 Alexei

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 12:15 AM

The second point about your arguments on whether it is good or not to enforce copy-protection scheme in software, it is only a matter of marketing considerations. Every company and everybody may perceive this issue in different ways. And I think everybody is entitled to have their own analysis and choice. Just like different people would have their own choice of religion or belief. There is nothing wrong with either this or that choice as long as they don't hurt or harm others or force it upon others contrary to the latter's own free will. It is up to you, up to everybody and up to us to have this freedom of choice.

I can't agree with you.
To me, enforcement of "copy-protection scheme in software" is more ethical then marketing issue. I consider unethical to enforce strict marketing policies toward the members of the community of software developers and ITs if you consider yourself to be a member of this community. Though, that doesn't apply to business-business relations with their business ethics.

Of course, you are free to be or not to be with the software community, join it or stand against as MS, but I'm also free to express my view on your position and business rhetoric you use to defend it. Maybe you just don't understand that we are not doing business here and nor should you.

I consider your attempt to introduce and defend the business ethics here to be inappropriate and against the spirit of this community.

In frank words, what kind of buddy you are if you try to profit off your friends?

1. freedom of expression;
2. freedom of choice; and
3. respect for individual views

I hope nobody on this forum would ever
1. be influenced by propaganda;
2. be fooled by business rhetoric; and
3. respect views of corporate business

Regards,
Alexei

#23 windrv

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 12:56 AM

I can't agree with you.
To me, enforcement of "copy-protection scheme in software" is more ethical then marketing issue. I consider unethical to enforce strict marketing policies toward the members of the community of software developers and ITs if you consider yourself to be a member of this community. Though, that doesn't apply to business-business relations with their business ethics.

Of course, you are free to be or not to be with the software community, join it or stand against as MS, but I'm also free to express my view on your position and business rhetoric you use to defend it. Maybe you just don't understand that we are not doing business here and nor should you.

I consider your attempt to introduce and defend the business ethics here to be inappropriate and against the spirit of this community.

In frank words, what kind of buddy you are if you try to profit off your friends?
I hope nobody on this forum would ever
1. be influenced by propaganda;
2. be fooled by business rhetoric; and
3. respect views of corporate business

Regards,
Alexei


Dear Alexei,

I appreciate very much making friends with everybody.

But I have not demanded my friends to buy our products not in their own free will.

All walks of life, including friends or not, could choose to buy and use or not buy and not use our products.

By the way, may I put it plainly, what is wrong with making profit from a friend if it is not forced upon the latter to buy and the latter knows it very well the price that has to be paid?

Also there are some other free and open-source software products on our website that you can download and use. Could this be regarded as a form of "friendship"? Or would you demand everything that is in your friends' household to be given it to you free? Or should I be demanded to give a right to any of my friends to pick whatever they like from my home to be given to them free?

Best regards

#24 Alexei

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 02:07 AM

...what is wrong with making profit from a friend...

If you meant your friend makes you profit from selling to a third party, that's OK with me, though I would share it with my friend.
If you meant the same thing as I did (you use your friend as the source of profit, i.e. he pays you), then we are from different planets...

Or would you demand everything that is in your friends' household to be given it to you free? Or should I be demanded to give a right to any of my friends to pick whatever they like from my home to be given to them free?

Your example implies that something is transferred from you to your friend when he picks something from your home.
It "gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. "
See http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Propaganda

Would you let your friend to make a free copy (for his private use) from the book you wrote?

Regards,
Alexei

#25 windrv

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 03:27 AM

If you meant your friend makes you profit from selling to a third party, that's OK with me, though I would share it with my friend.
If you meant the same thing as I did (you use your friend as the source of profit, i.e. he pays you), then we are from different planets...
Your example implies that something is transferred from you to your friend when he picks something from your home.
It "gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. "
See http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Propaganda

Would you let your friend to make a free copy (for his private use) from the book you wrote?

Regards,
Alexei


Oh Dear My Friend,

As I have mentioned, there are already some free and open-source software in our site where you could download and enjoy. And in future, if we could afford the time and the resources, more will be rolled out for you.

Best regards




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