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WAIK License -- allowance for redistribution?


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#1 windrv

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 12:46 AM

Anyone knows if WAIK License allows for redistribution?

Or the final product, VistaPE, made by using WinBuilder & VistaPE script is redistributable under WAIK License to all or to members within an organization or enterprise or internet forum community such boot-land.net?

#2 paraglider

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 11:25 AM

Just read 'Terms for Microsoft Software.RTF' which is installed with the WAIK:

By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.

If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.


1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software on your devices.

2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE RIGHTS. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1, certain portions of the software, as described in this Section 2, are provided to you with additional license rights. These additional license rights are conditioned upon your compliance with the license restrictions described in this Section 2 and Section 3.
· Windows Pre-Installation Environment. You may install and use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for purposes of diagnosing and recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use the Windows Pre-Installation Environment for any other purpose, including without limitation as a general operating system, as a thin client or as a remote desktop client.

· ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll, Wimfilter and Package Manager. You may install and use the ImageX.exe, Wimapi.dll and Wimfilter and Package Manager portions of the software for recovering Windows operating system software. For the avoidance of doubt, you may not use these portions of the software for any other purpose, including without limitation for purposes of backing up your Windows operating system.


3. Scope of License. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not
· work around any technical limitations in the software;

· reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;

· make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;

· publish the software for others to copy;

· rent, lease or lend the software;

· transfer the software or this agreement to any third party; or

· use the software for commercial software hosting services.


4. BACKUP COPY. You may make one backup copy of the software. You may use it only to reinstall the software.

#3 Moon Goon

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 06:19 PM

To paraphrase Paraglider, I think he's saying "Nope"

The line that says "No" for me is:
..You may not.. ..publish the software for others to copy

So, as I understand it, you can use WAIK for your own copy of Windows but not take it apart and redistribute it in another application.

VistaPE is subject to the same license as any install of Windows. It's not an official M$ pre-install environment. You're using the license granted to you with the Vista/XP install media.

One point of controversy is, since you are using the same license that came with the install media, do you have the right to modify your installation (by making it a PE disc)?

My take is that making a PE disc is fair use. M$ has always answered questions on this subject with a deafening silence.

#4 allanf

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 03:02 AM

redistributable.... to members within an organization or enterprise or internet forum community such boot-land.net?


"You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices..."

If the organization or enterprise can be defined as a juristic person, then the "you" in the Licence Agreement may refer to the organization or enterprise as a whole. If this is the case, it may be OK to redistribute a single original copy of the Software (or parts thereof) throughout a corporation, provided that the devices on which it is installed and used (computers, hard-drives, flash drives, CDs, etc) are owned by the corporation. I don't think that Boot-Land Forum Community would fall into the category of a Juristic Person, and the Boot-Land WebSite Owners would probably not be allowed to redistribute the Software (or parts thereof) for installation and use on devices owned by others.

#5 windrv

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 01:15 AM

So if you make VistaPE out of WAIK, you cannot even use it to browse internet or for other purposes than installing windows?

Then what are the uses of doing application scripts for embedding other applications into VistaPE?

#6 allanf

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 03:29 AM

So if you make VistaPE out of WAIK, you cannot even use it to browse internet or for other purposes than installing windows?


"... solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software on your devices."

Maybe, it might be necessary to look for a Knowledge Base or Technet Article "for the purpose of deploying". So you would need to browse the Web. Why not browse from PE?

Or the required information might only be found by browsing to www.boot-land.net. You never know... :)

Then what are the uses of doing application scripts for embedding other applications into VistaPE?


A lot of the applications are useful "for the purpose of deploying"... like Sudoku for example. :yahoo:

It might be stretching the boundaries a bit.

#7 MedEvil

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 02:14 PM

One does not really have to care about M$ licence. Rather check your local laws. They outweight any M$ ideas of legal! :)

:yahoo:

#8 martinr

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:41 PM

This topic raises some very interesting issues, and I would like to add some points to the debate.

1. NightMan designed the VistaPE project so that it was possible to build it without using the WAIK at all. All you need in addition to WinBuilder and the VistaPE scripts is a Vista installation disk, and you then pack the operating system files using the WimUtil.exe program provided with VistaPE. When you make your CD this way, your position in law can be no different from those who have been building BartPE disks in their hundreds for the last few years.

2. Moving on a stage, if you have the WAIK and decide to use imagex.exe instead of WimUtil.exe to pack the files, then clearly you are now using part of the WAIK/WinPE to make your build. But the important point to realise is that imagex is not itself added to the build, and no part of WinPE is being used as a general operating system. The legal position would appear to be the same as in 1 above.

3. If however, you do not use a Vista installation disk to make your build and rely instead on the winpe.wim file provided in the WAIK, you are now definitely using WinPE as an operating system, and need to consider the terms of the WAIK license. First of all it can be argued that the WAIK is being used "solely for the purpose of deploying Windows operating system software" on your device. It is not clear from the license whether the software referred to is exclusively Microsoft's own Windows software, or more generally any software designed to run on a Windows system. In the first case, it can be argued that the software deployed is WinPE itself, and in the second, the diagnostic/recovery software being run by the VistaPE scripts. The next point to consider is whether WinPE is being used as a general operating system. It would appear that it is not; it is being used only for the limited purpose of deploying the software referred to. The last point to question is whether WinPE is being used "for purposes of diagnosing and recovering ... software". This would seem to be satisfied by most of the utilities normally found on a VistaPE disk, but there may be doubt about non-diagnostic/recovery software such as word-processing programs.

4. Whichever method is adopted to build a disk, it may be hard to determine how it was done, and the disk may instead be judged on what it contains. A disk is a disk is a disk, and the crucial issue may just be whether the producer had rights to the software he used in producing it, and used it in accordance with his license (eg did not sell it as a commercial package or as part of one).

5. One thing does seem clear from the license. You are not permitted to use imagex to back up your system. However, you could presumably use it to restore your system, because that would amount to deployment of software.

#9 paraglider

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 11:13 PM

Does wimutil use the wimgapi.dll or is it totally self contained and was created assuming no knowledge gained from using the WAIK. If this is true then its probably safe to assume that using wimutil is safer than using imagex.

I suspect that as long as you only use the disk created on your own personal PCs for which you have a legal Vista license then MS is never going to care how you are using the AIK.

Of course if MS perceives that the AIK license is being abused then they could always go back to the model of only making it available to OEMs.

#10 martinr

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:03 AM

Does wimutil use the wimgapi.dll or is it totally self contained and was created assuming no knowledge gained from using the WAIK. If this is true then its probably safe to assume that using wimutil is safer than using imagex.

You are right. I managed to find an early copy of the WimUtil AutoIt script. It does use wimfltr.sys and wimgapi.dll.

Of course if MS perceives that the AIK license is being abused then they could always go back to the model of only making it available to OEMs.

It would be very sad if they were to do that.

#11 was_jaclaz

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:01 AM

5. One thing does seem clear from the license. You are not permitted to use imagex to back up your system. However, you could presumably use it to restore your system, because that would amount to deployment of software.


Hmmm :yahoo:, the point I still completely fail to grasp is HOW one could create the backup files to be restored:
http://www.911cd.net...o...9355&st=132

:)

jaclaz

#12 martinr

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:44 AM

Hmmm :yahoo:, the point I still completely fail to grasp is HOW one could create the backup files to be restored:
http://www.911cd.net...o...9355&st=132

:)

jaclaz

When I first posted, I thought possibly that one could use WimUtil to create the backup, but it now seems that there may be a problem in using that too. Of course, some people with a new machine may already have a backup wim which they received from the OEM who supplied it. You could use that, but it would not incorporate any changes since original installation.

I have read your posts to the topic you mentioned, and agree completely with what you have said. It does indeed seem difficult to use imagex for recovery purposes if you are debarred from using it to make backups.

I guess that Microsoft would say that they did not develop imagex as a backup tool and didn't test it for that use, which is why they insist on it being used for deployment purposes only. On the other hand, they did incorporate some quite sophisticated features like Append and Delete, which were clearly designed for use on multiple images in the same file and which make it eminently suitable for backup purposes. As diddy also pointed out in the other topic, it stores its data in a very efficient manner and avoids duplication of content.

It is nice to have such a well produced utility, even if we are not supposed to use it to its capabilities. :)

#13 paraglider

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:36 PM

I think MS explicitly say imagex does not work for Vista backups. It does not preserve some of the content of the vista boot drive that is required for Vista to work.

Note I did not say that using wimutil contravenes the license. I just noted implementation details that if used would make it contravene the license. I have no idea how wimutil was coded and what vista apis it uses.

#14 martinr

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 05:31 PM

I think MS explicitly say imagex does not work for Vista backups. It does not preserve some of the content of the vista boot drive that is required for Vista to work.

Yes, their statement is here. It is not the clearest of documents, and talks about sparse files and reparse points, which makes it all sound very scary.

I think that it is quite possible that the issues they raise are only valid where imagex is used outside a WinPE environment. The reason I say this is that the WAIK describes in some detail the process of producing an image and deploying it. Basically, this consists of setting up a "Master Installation", rebooting the machine into WinPE and capturing an image of it with imagex. The content of the image is then transferred to a new computer by booting that into WinPE and applying the saved image to it using imagex. This process is clearly effective and is used by OEMs and others to setup new machines. In fact, OEMs commonly provide a copy of the image to their purchaser to be used as a backup in an emergency.

If this procedure works for new machines, it must work also on the machine originally used as the Master Installation. Furthermore, there can as a matter of fact be no hardware inconsistencies between image and machine in this case. It follows from this that imagex can indeed be used as a backup tool, and of course it is so used everyday by OEMs and their customers.




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