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Is http://www.tinykrnl.org/ closed?


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#1 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:41 AM

Went looking for news on tinykrnl but the site seems to be online and requesting a password to enter.

Anyone knows if this projects was closed? :yahoo:


Found a copy on the wayback machine, but it's dated from may:
http://web.archive.o...w.tinykrnl.org/

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 12:13 PM

Found a copy on the wayback machine, but it's dated from may


Well, :

Latest News

09/06/06

Disk now boots and development on the HAL has started. ClassPnP has reached 20% completion. The Bootloader is now able to start parsing the boot.ini file.


I went there a few days ago, and there were no newer news than the above.

The latest nightly build is cached:
http://web.archive.o.../tinynightly.7z

(hex edit the downloaded file and add n.1 "00" byte at the end of it in order to open it with 7zip)

Most recent file within it is dated 04 February 2007.

jaclaz

#3 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 12:30 PM

Thank you! :yahoo:

#4 smiley

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:46 PM

I don't know if http://www.tinykrnl.org worked in the past, but the oficial is http://tinykrnl.org/.

Why are you interested in tinykrnl and not Reactos (which released its 0.3.3 RC1 version) ?
It is writen with everse engineering and so its source can be used only for educational purposes.

Jacklaz: Your link is the same with this:
http://svn.tinykrnl..../tinynightly.7z

#5 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 03:24 PM

Thanks for clearing this confusion smiley.. :)


I like the reactOS project a lot - but they make things really hard and disapointing sometimes - it would only require NTFS support as default and surely a lot more people would jump in to help, but instead prefer to delay and delay - without NTFS the scope of action for ROS is quite limited.. :yahoo:

You should have seen my discussion a few months ago about recreating a live CD with mkisofs - things that should be simple are nowhere easy to find or recreate (even for people with some practise): http://www.reactos.o...opic.php?t=3152

So I follow ROS developments until NTFS can be supported without MS files.. :)

#6 was_jaclaz

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 03:42 PM

@smiley
Yes, I had it bookmarked with the leading www. and it had worked for me till today.

Right now this link:
http://svn.tinykrnl..../tinynightly.7z
is for a 32 byte file, maybe they are updating the server or whatever. :)

However, here:
http://svn.tinykrnl.org/iso/
there are iso builds for LiveCd.

I guess one should bookmark:
http://tinykrnl.org/
http://svn.tinykrnl.org/
and mavigate his way, as many links appear misleading.

It is writen with everse engineering and so its source can be used only for educational purposes.


I would like you to explain me the above. :yahoo:

Maybe you have elder news:
http://www.reactos.o...ws_page_14.html

I had gathered that after the Audit:
http://www.reactos.o...index.php/Audit

Everything is cool. :)

In any case, if there is ANY "stolen" code in ReactOS, which I personally doubt, that would make it illegal, NO MATTER which use you are planning for it.

jaclaz

#7 smiley

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 06:45 PM

@Jacklaz: Yes Reactos doesn't use any microsoft code, but tinykrnl uses(see here). Reactos doesn't use any parts of tinykrnl because it is illegal although both projects are run by the same people

About http://svn.tinykrnl.org/, it is exaclty the same with the following:
http://svn.reactos.org
http://svn.reactos.ru

Only http://svn.reactos.org/svn/tinykrnl/ (http://svn.tinykrnl.org/svn/tinykrnl/) and
http://svn.reactos.org/tinykrnl/ (http://svn.tinykrnl.org/tinykrnl/)
have information about tinykrnl.

So http://svn.tinykrnl.org/iso/ is just the folder of the nightly builds of Reactos

@Nuno:
Why is it disapointing? The fact that they doesn't support ntfs isn't enough. There is SO LITTLE man power and it is a miracle that it has gone so far.

NTFS is the less important thing that has to be implemented. You should remember that it can't even support multiple users.

Should I be disappointed If i asked you to support in-built commands in winbuilder to edit .wim images or to have an in-built emulator??? :yahoo:

Reactos is just a crazy experiment, But it worth people to support it.

#8 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 07:21 PM

Yes, you're absolutely right - and I still wish NTFS came by default.. :yahoo:

#9 MedEvil

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 10:32 PM

Two things i never did understand are, why everybody considers a OS that is not multiuser a bad - or inferior thing.
Given the fact that most people eighter are the only user of their PC or learn very fast that it is way better to have 2 OS on 2 partitions if there is a second person messing with your PC. :)
Second Question is why ntfs? Fat get's the job done and is even easier to recunstruct if the filesystem is damaged to the point of no automatic recovery. And if it has to be a filing filesystem, why not use extfs or riserfs or or or, there are a number of filesystems out there that are surperior to ntfs. :)

:yahoo:

#10 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 10:51 PM

...
Second Question is why ntfs? Fat get's the job done and is even easier to recunstruct if the filesystem is damaged to the point of no automatic recovery. And if it has to be a filing filesystem, why not use extfs or riserfs or or or, there are a number of filesystems out there that are surperior to ntfs. :)
...


I have nothing personal against FAT, but if there was NTFS support as default we could then use the ROS liveCD as a rescue platform instead of a MS PE environment.. :) (and even directly make an ISO available with a stable base to use instead of "guessing" from dozens of different possible XP/2003 sources)

When someone manages to add NTFS support without MS files then I'll jump right ahead to help since we could also use this in pratical projects here - but unfortunately file system drivers are pretty much black magic for me..

I think we already have a lot of gathered experience with PE boot disks - improving a ROS could also become a fun challenge..

If you volunter to add or ask people who know how this can be done - this would surely change my personal perspective of ROS in real world usage and I would really appreciate a lot your help on this case.

:yahoo:

#11 MedEvil

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:17 PM

I have nothing personal against FAT, but if there was NTFS support as default we could then use the ROS liveCD as a rescue platform instead of a MS PE environment.. :) (and even directly make an ISO available with a stable base to use instead of "guessing" from dozens of different possible XP/2003 sources)

If a free rescue system with NTFS is what you need, you can stop searching.
There are so many Linux liveCDs with ntfs support, it should be hard to find one who does not have this feature. :yahoo:

:)

PS: Just an idea, if it is possible to rip the needed files from an XP system and make use of them under DOS shouldnt this even be easier under ROS? :)

#12 smiley

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 06:31 AM

why everybody considers a OS that is not multiuser a bad - or inferior thing.
Given the fact that most people eighter are the only user of their PC or learn very fast that it is way better to have 2 OS on 2 partitions if there is a second person messing with your PC. :yahoo:


Well, Reactos is actually multiuser but creating new users is unimplemented.
This is what I mean.

#13 Nuno Brito

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 09:47 AM

If a free rescue system with NTFS is what you need, you can stop searching.
There are so many Linux liveCDs with ntfs support, it should be hard to find one who does not have this feature. :yahoo:
...


Yes, but how many of those will let me run windows apps? (wine is quite unusable most times and linux itself makes things over complicated to my own taste sometimes.. :) )

#14 MedEvil

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:06 AM

Yes, but how many of those will let me run windows apps?

If all you want is a rescue system, there is no need for windows software, imo.

(wine is quite unusable most times

Use crossover office. That one was able to run all my favorite apps under Linux.

and linux itself makes things over complicated to my own taste sometimes.. :) )

That's why they come prebuild! :yahoo:

:)

#15 Nuno Brito

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:10 AM

I would really be a happy person with NTFS under ROS.. :)

:yahoo:

#16 simulatedreality

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 02:15 PM

Well, :
I went there a few days ago, and there were no newer news than the above.

The latest nightly build is cached:
http://web.archive.o.../tinynightly.7z

(hex edit the downloaded file and add n.1 "00" byte at the end of it in order to open it with 7zip)

Most recent file within it is dated 04 February 2007.

jaclaz


Hi there everyone...

I am glad to see some people are questioning what is going on with this fantastic project (TinyKRNL)...

It is quite worrying that no one seems to know this project's status - and it is even more worrying that the links on the website are note working (ie the file for the source/build environment is coming down @ 32KB and corrupt etc etc).

Furthermore, the above link (quoted) did not work for me either - even after hex edit to fix checksum...

Anyway, I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to please send me a copy of the working proper archive that contains the full source and build environment - some actual compiled/built files/executables and/or a bootable ISO (live CD) would also be very much appreciated.

My name is Rhys and I am just about to write my own operating system (as part of my PhD thesis) and I would like to get some experience with the new WDK (Windows Vista Driver Development Kit) which is the recommended and supported build environment that TinyKRNL uses to create a setup that is very very very close to "Razzle"/"Dazzle" system which is what Microsoft themselves used to build Windows...

I have the WDK and am ready to rock so TinyKRNL would be much appreciated.

Please feel free to e-mail me for discussion of the above at simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

Finally, and on another note -

I am not the sort of person who is in a position of financial difficulty and as such, and having quite a bit of money to spare, I would be happy to fund the TinyKRNL project and/or a sourceforge offshot (if need be) to ensure it is kept ALIVE.

#17 Nuno Brito

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 03:07 PM

Welcome to boot-land.net Rhys!

This project seems pretty much closed at this moment - I've been following their work since it's first appearance but very little has ever surfaced to our reach.

Since Alex Ionescu moved to mac development, things have been slow - especially on reactOS where a few more internal conflicts brought the whole project to a nearly "frozen" state. (even thought things look on the right track now)

You find more info on his blog: http://www.alex-ionescu.com/?p=42

--

If possible I would also like to contribute to it's growth - a free win based OS is really something special.. :cheers:

#18 simulatedreality

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:29 PM

Welcome to boot-land.net Rhys!

This project seems pretty much closed at this moment - I've been following their work since it's first appearance but very little has ever surfaced to our reach.

Since Alex Ionescu moved to mac development, things have been slow - especially on reactOS where a few more internal conflicts brought the whole project to a nearly "frozen" state. (even thought things look on the right track now)

You find more info on his blog: http://www.alex-ionescu.com/?p=42

--

If possible I would also like to contribute to it's growth - a free win based OS is really something special.. :cheers:


Thankyou very much for that warm welcome :cheers:

I understand Alex moved to Mac (and also Microsoft ???) and that he had conflict of interest issues with the ReactOS project due to the M$ connection and possible privileged access to official Windows Source Code (?)...

This is understandable to a degree but, and nevertheless, TinyKRNL is a totally different issue and there is no conflict of interest there surely...

What are your thoughts on this and is this the reason why the project is "frozen" or is it something else ?

Why hasn't Alex put out an official status notice and do you know what the other TinyKRNL members are doing and/or what they know ?

Anyway, the main issues for me are -

1) I have a substantial bank account and would be happy to fund this project in order to keep it alive...

2) I have the WDK downloaded and am ready to run - I would be very very very grateful to anyone who can provide me with Tinynightly.7Z - this is the only file I know to contain everything. I did have a copy before but deleted it by mistake and can not find it on P2P for some reason. It should be downloadable from the site (tinykrnl.org) but this server's output seems to be corrupt !!! I have also tried other mirror sites including the one I quoted before but have had no luck (even with hex editing etc) -

therefore I politely and faithfully ask -

could you PLEASE send a copy of this archive (source and build environment and working live/bootable ISOs if you have them) ?

Basically I need everything needed to produce bootable working live CD from the source code and would be making this live CD via WDK/Razzle-Dazzle - the tinynightly.7z would be a massive help to me if you could send as a simple e-mail attachment: to simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

As far as the bootable and pre-compiled versions go (if you have built a working copy that goes live) would you mind doing this as a once off by FTP ?

That way I can compare my builds to your builds and make sure I am doing the right thing...

Thanks in advance :cheers:

3) Finally - I am fascinated by Razzle/Dazzle and how Windows itself is actually built - any information would be greatly appreciated. What do you know ?

Feel free to email me directly at simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

If you do not have the 7z archive/bootable iso yourself I would very much appreciate it if you could pass on the request to anyone you know - please also tell them I am in a position to revive the project if all that is required is more funding. Perhaps it can be sourceforged...

Anyway I really reallly really appreciate your help because so far I have sent e-mails and posts here there and everywhere (including to Alex) but received NOTHING.

#19 Nuno Brito

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 07:53 PM

I know the feeling of seeing something like this get forgotten with time.

Unfortunately I don't have any files but have you looked here?

http://svn.reactos.org/

It contains ISO's, compiled binaries and a lot of their debug compilations.. :cheers:

#20 simulatedreality

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 09:57 AM

I know the feeling of seeing something like this get forgotten with time.

Unfortunately I don't have any files but have you looked here?

http://svn.reactos.org/

It contains ISO's, compiled binaries and a lot of their debug compilations.. :cheers:


Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I have looked in the subversion domains but found nothing that "works" as such.

The tinynightly.7z file comes down as 32KB which can not be correct - can it now ?

And it is corrupt and will not open under 7Z anyway...

Have you personally tried downloading this version (from the link you provided or directly from tinykrnl.org) ?

What about mirror sites, way-back machines, or P2P networks ?

I seriously MUST find this file and WILL get this project back to LIFE...

Even if that means taking it over to sourceforge...

I am just not sure of the legal technicalities, considering it is not my project, and I would not want to attempt any sort of hostile takeover - to be honest I wish Alex would just run it as he was at the start !!!

But - at the same token - I am not going to let the project DIE...

What do you think ?

Please let me know your thoughts regarding this specifically.

Moving on, the main issue at hand here is for me to find a copy of the archive containing both the source and build environment so I can build a bootable ISO CD that will go LIVE...

I would also like to obtain a copy of someone else's pre-compiled code and there own built ISO that goes live.

That way I can compare etc and make sure I am on the right track.

So - in order to find this where should I be looking - are there any other forums/sites/persons I should be contacting/posting at ?

I have e-mailed Alex at all of his addresses but am still waiting - he is the sort of person that will reply 100% (and will 100% provide a copy of the source/build environ) but he is just so damn busy I could be waiting till next year !!! Not his fault really - he is just too busy making money !!!

Well, back to the issue at hand - getting a copy..

Would you mind doing this for me - going to this site and downloading this file and editing with hex tool as follows:

Well, :
I went there a few days ago, and there were no newer news than the above.

The latest nightly build is cached:
http://web.archive.o.../tinynightly.7z

(hex edit the downloaded file and add n.1 "00" byte at the end of it in order to open it with 7zip)

Most recent file within it is dated 04 February 2007.

jaclaz



I am not lazy and have tried to do this myself but it did not work for me.

Would you be kind enough to download the copy from the above URL and open in 7Z after fixing checksum as above ?

If you get it to work I would very very very grateful and I will keep trying myself.

Is that ok ?

Much appreciated,

Rx.

PS: I will keep this site up to date on the issue and if I hear anything from Alex you guys will be first to know - but so far NOTHING.

#21 simulatedreality

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

Well, :
I went there a few days ago, and there were no newer news than the above.

The latest nightly build is cached:
http://web.archive.o.../tinynightly.7z

(hex edit the downloaded file and add n.1 "00" byte at the end of it in order to open it with 7zip)

Most recent file within it is dated 04 February 2007.

jaclaz


Hi there.

Just wondering if you could please e-mail me a copy of the 7Z file above - after it has been fixed by hex-editing and repairing checksum...

Is that ok ?

I simply appreciate the full source code and build environment - everything needed to create a bootable ISO CD that I can burn and use to go LIVE.

If you also have it I would LOVE a copy of any compiled binaries/files/outputs and a working ISO that goes LIVE.

Any knowledge on Razzle/Dazzle would also be great but the main thing here I am after is simply the standard tinynightly.7z that SHOULD be downloadable (in working format) from the tinykrnl.org website !!!

Anyway, if you wouldn't mind spending a few minutes doing this please e-mail the 7Z to simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

:cheers:

FYI: I tried to do as instructed above but could not get it to work... And the tinykrnl.org website is sending down a 32KB file that will not open either. If you would not mind please e-mail this as an attachment to me at simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com It would mean a LOT to me

:cheers:

Anyway, in regards to TinyKRNL, I am seriously trying to find out what is going on with the intent of reviving the project.

I am a University graduate about to build my own operating system for my PhD thesis and am in a financial position where I could very easily inject a substantial amount of money into the operation in order to bring it back to life and keep it alive.

If you are interested and/or have any thoughts to this please let me know and feel free to e-mail me at simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

I am waiting for Alex Ionescu to get back to me but I am thinking about sourceforging this project and/or taking over if he no longer is interested/can not work on it.

Personally I would prefer for him to remain in control but at the end of the day I would rather take over than for it to go to waste.

I am simply not prepared for such an intelligent concept end up becoming NOTHING. :cheers:

#22 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 10:21 AM

Just wondering if you could please e-mail me a copy of the 7Z file above - after it has been fixed by hex-editing and repairing checksum...

Is that ok ?


Attaching it to the post. :cheers:

jaclaz

Attached Files



#23 simulatedreality

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:35 AM

Well, :
I went there a few days ago, and there were no newer news than the above.

The latest nightly build is cached:
http://web.archive.o.../tinynightly.7z

(hex edit the downloaded file and add n.1 "00" byte at the end of it in order to open it with 7zip)

Most recent file within it is dated 04 February 2007.

jaclaz


Hi there...

Would you mind explaining how to do this hex editing with WINHEX ?

What exactly do you mean by ' add n.1 "00" byte at the end ' ?

Excuse me if this sounds stupid - it is late and I am half of asleep - but I am not sure what you mean by n.1 and the file I opened already did have a "00" byte at the end... But it nevertheless does not open in 7Z or in WINRAR so it is obviously still corrupt... Perhaps I am doing it wrong - or maybe this program (WINHEX) is just not allowing me to edit properly/save (trial version)...

To put me out of my misery - Would you mind sending me a copy of the working 7Z version you have there on your system ?

That would be much appreciated. :cheers:

I am desperate to get my hands on TinyKNRL source and build environment and my only other options are (other than the above):

1) To use Subversion
2) To download entire svn.tinykrnl.org server and pack together each file manually - alas making my own archive from scratch...

To be honest I have not had that much experience with Subversion - is there just the command line interface (svn.exe) or is there a GUI or Internet Explorer add-on/plugin as well - something that will let me VISUALLY goto the svn://svn.tinykrnl.org URL ???

And if I am to download the whole website manually - is there an easier way to do that than downloading each file one by one then browsing the repository (http://svn.tinykrnl.org/svn/tinykrnl/) and going to the next directory then the next then the next manually - is there some tool that will download the whole website for me (ie 10 links deep) in one go ???

Sorry about this but I really need to get a copy of this code and build environment.

Would you mind simply e-mailing me a copy of your working 7Z ?

:cheers:

Thanks in advance...

:cheers:

PS: I wish I knew what was going on with this project - it is too damn good to be left for dead - really - I have e-mailed Alex (project manager) and attempted to join project but received back (thus far anyway) nothing...

#24 simulatedreality

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:49 AM

Attaching it to the post. :cheers:

jaclaz


Downloaded and extracted without a problem - thankyou very very very much :cheers:

Sorry about the other post asking for it again - we must have crossed wires and posted at the same time exactly...

Anyway, what are your thoughts on TinyKRNL by the way ?

Have you built it in the WDK yourself and/or got a version of it (or any derivative) working live ?

I am fascinated by this Native Command Line Interface (NCLI) point as depicted in the KQEMU emulation picture on the tinykrnl.org site - I have never been at this point of the operating system (NT) before - the true NT layer before SMSS.EXE is executed...

Do you know if there is anyway of doing this with a WinPE disk or standard Windows installation - getting the system to boot up to a command prompt of this sort (in native "NT" mode as such) ???

I understand CHKDSK.EXE and AUTOFMT.EXE are programs that run (on x86 anyway) in kernel mode and are executed on the Intel in Ring Zero (0). So I am wondering if maybe it would be as simple as "replacing" the real CHKDSK.EXE or a similar file with a program that would run in it's place and give this NCLI/prompt... Then there is the Session Manager key in the registry which is free - Debug - this may also be a way to achieve such (I am referring to the key that calls CSRSS.EXE)...

Well, let me know what you think - I am off to build this little operating system :cheers:

PS: Thanks again for your time and posting that file. I really appreciate it as you can see. Anyway, I am half asleep so excuse me if I am not making complete sense and/or if my midnight oil theories amount to nothing...

#25 was_jaclaz

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:00 PM

I just posted as attachment the copy I have. :cheers:

OK, :cheers: definitely we are cross-posting.

Some (most) of the downloads from www.archive.org simply miss 1 (one) byte at the end, in other words the downloaded file is one byte shorter than the original.
Since 99,999% of archive files have a few 00 bytes at the end (so called "padding"), you need to add to the file a byte with value 00.

You do not need necessarily a Hex-editor to do so.
Copy and paste the following with Notepad in a new .txt file and rename the file to pad0.cmd:
@ECHO OFF

if %1.==. GOTO :EOF

if not exist echoo.com (

echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com

echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com

echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com

echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com

)

echoo.com $00>tempbin.$$$

copy /b %1 + tempbin.$$$ %1

del echoo.com

del tempbin.$$$

PAUSE
put it in the same directory where you downloaded the file, open a Command Prompt there and simply type:
pad0 filename.ext [ENTER]
or simply drag and drop the archive on the .cmd

jaclaz




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