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Is fighting (Windows 10) automatic updates worth the time and effort?


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#1 AnonVendetta

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:28 AM

I used to think so, but over time, I'm leaning toward "no". It takes so much time and effort to prevent these updates, only to catch Windows silently overriding your changes when you least expect it. And updates have alot of hidden triggers that can reenable it. I've had some successes over time, only to see "installing updates, dont power off your PC" when shutting down, and thinking "goddamit, not again!".

 

And now, if you remove components, Windows will just reinstall them when updating. I've been ripping stuff out with MSMG Toolkit and NTLite, only them to find later returned.

 

The only useful scenario i can think of for preventing updates, is when running Windows in a ramdisk. In that case it is essential, since they just bloat and fill the C drive. Windows has to fit entirely into RAM, with enough left over for software to run. That is hard to pull off with updates enabled.

 

I would like to try a ramdisk setup, but it is also volatile and potentially unstable. On top of that, if you want to make changes in the ramdisk, you need a way to flush the changes back into the image, or everything is lost after powering off. Not sure how to accomplish that.

 

Opinions?



#2 ReTokener

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 08:46 AM

hi anon

 

I would like to try a ramdisk setup, but it is also volatile and potentially unstable. On top of that, if you want to make changes in the ramdisk, you need a way to flush the changes back into the image, or everything is lost after powering off. Not sure how to accomplish that.

if I get you right, an UWF environment could be the right thing, unfortunately it is limited to Enterprise Edition.

 

It's servicing must be manually scheduled as it cannot commit at shutdown.
 
regards   T.
 

 

 



#3 antonino61

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 05:27 PM

well, quite a few posts ago, I suggested those with a lot of ram move all *.etl files to a ramdisk containing temps and all (s)crap(s) and leftovers windows does not clean after itself and junction them all to their original locations on the hdd. this is an effective (run-off-the-mill, if u will) way of tackling the problem. I can see it has worked wonderfully so far. now and then, vendetta is right in saying that something seeps thru the various seams anyway, but the task can be repeated on those occasions in those locations, which have become far less numerous than in the beginning, though.



#4 Camiel

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 11:51 AM

I found nothing worng with LTSC versions so far. They update very rarely. 

Neither with putting the Update service start type value at 4 in the registry. It never falls back. 

My Win10 wimboot vhd occupies only 1.5g RAM. Made with those thorough reboot.pro tutorials only.



#5 antonino61

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:26 PM

you could make it even smaller than 1.5gb:

Get-alladafluff-out - Windows 10 - reboot.pro


#6 Camiel

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:51 PM

it's 1.5g expanded in RAM. 314mb vhd on disk, loads in 3 seconds from ssd, no reason to LZ4 it. 2.48g wim. 

I use an nLite alternative.


Edited by Camiel, 10 May 2020 - 01:52 PM.


#7 antonino61

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 06:51 PM

interesting. my wim is 2.08gb and my vhd is 525mb, but it stays 525mb in RAM (less than one sec to load (nvme here)). how so? and how do I get it smaller on disk and expandable to its needs in ram? so far, I have only been able to initially shrink my vhd to 450mb on disk and in ram (no difference) and re-expand it to 500mb and lately to 525mb upon "request" by a program that would not run otherwise. Your solution, if I may, seems to be much handier. how do I apply it here?

btw, the alternative to ntlite, did u use it on the wim  before installing or on the live system loaded on an ex-post-facto basis?



#8 Camiel

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 11:37 AM

I just use a 1.5g dynamic vhd.

i can only assume that the wimboot OS on the vhd needs some space to temporarily unpack from the wim the various files any given application requires from the system. I found out that it actually never gets more than 1.3g, even in the most busy day.

On the other hand, the latest versions of grub4dos do load dynamic vhds in ram without having to enumerate all the free disk space first, or that's how it seems to me at least.

That's why there's no reason for me to Lz4 the vhd anymore. Unless one needs to target memory cards or other more exotic storage.



#9 antonino61

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 01:34 PM

ok I think I'll try that too overhere.



#10 antonino61

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:00 PM

No dice. the quickest grub4dos (fon nvme) is 4.5, which recognizes neither dynamic vhds nor lz4. what a shame.



#11 Camiel

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:46 PM

https://github.com/c...ub4dos/releases



#12 antonino61

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 04:35 PM

will this version u have posted the link to not have u lose 4.5's speed advantage in reading nvme?



#13 antonino61

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 05:27 PM

no dice. no speedy nvme-ram transfer with the newest version (the one u posted the link to).
 
Grub4DOS AHCI / NVMe patch download | SourceForge.net
 
try a fixed vhd on this version and notice the difference in loading times.
unfortunately, neither dynamic vhd, nor lz4, work, though.


#14 Camiel

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 06:31 AM

No clue about nvme unfortunately.

Did you by any chance tried al1ve's grub2 thingy ? pretty impressive, Found nothing I couldn't load, but then again I have no nvme.



#15 v77

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 11:20 AM

About the LTSC versions: unfortunately, even that does not prevent the drivers to be updated.
Because of that, I recently lost my Nvidia control panel. The only way to retrieve it is, in theory, to download it from the store. But there is no store in the LTSC versions, and therefore, no way to retrieve the control panel.
Of course, reinstalling the previous version failed.
I still have found a way: download a non-DCH driver, and before installing it, remove a registry value (HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\DCHUVen).

So nice: forced to hack my own system to properly use my hardware like before. All that because of these stupid updates.

For me, Windows Update is now completely disabled, and I won't update my system as long as possible.



#16 antonino61

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 12:50 PM

@Camiel

I would liket to, provided I knew how to translate my grub4dos menu.list commands into grub2 lingo. I would not like to screw things up, so I will not use grub2-based loading until anyone teaches me how to translate what I got on g4d. would u?

 

@v77

I can understand u had a big problem; I cannot understand what caused it, though.



#17 v77

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 01:46 PM

@v77

I can understand u had a big problem; I cannot understand what caused it, though.

It's a new policy from Microsoft for the drivers, and not specific to Nvidia:
https://nvidia.custh...-windows-10-faq

Basically, installation packages of drivers are now supposed to have only the minimum to make the hardware work. All related tools are now considered as external softwares and should be downloaded and installed manually.

Technically, there is no true new limitation. It's just a policy, and a developer can ignore it as long as he doesn't need things such as WHQL...



#18 antonino61

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 03:02 PM

to me, as a non-developer, it is even better. the smaller, the better.



#19 v77

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 04:09 PM

to me, as a non-developer, it is even better. the smaller, the better.

 

But in this case, that means:
- You can't plug a second monitor.
- You cannot configure a new video mode, configure colors, and so on.
- YUV colors from videos will be rendered into the 16-235 range (when done by hardware), instead of 0-255, which means no true black or white and poor contrast.

When you pay hundreds of euros/dollars for a graphic card, do you think it's normal to not be able to configure anything?

Microsoft removes features we have paid for, this is unacceptable.

The smaller, the better? For the last stable Nvidia driver (445.87):
Standard: 519MB
DCH: 536MB
Yes, less features = bigger.



#20 alacran

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 08:08 PM

In order to have a few more control of Updates, Driver Updates, Apps and minimize telemetry I use this 3 free programs:

 

 

MSMG Toolkit:

 

This will help you to remove all unwanted (CR)Apps and other components including some related to telemetry and also apply certain tricks to your install.wim indexes of Win10: https://msmgtoolkit.in/

 

O&O ShutUp10:

 

After install you can also use O&O ShutUp10: https://www.oo-softw...com/en/shutup10to furter reduce telemetry.

 

Read carefully both pages because some removed/deleted components can't be reapplied again.

 

Firewall App Blocker (Fab):

 

And finnally you can use Firewall App Blocker (Fab) v1.6, by means of Withelist all inbond and outbond connections are blocked, and only the programs you select (as your browser and AV) will be able to connect to Internet: https://www.sordum.o...ocker-fab-v1-6/

 

Source: http://reboot.pro/to...sible-on-win10/

 

alacran



#21 antonino61

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 11:35 PM

@alacrán

so do I.

 

@vtt

as for the nvidia card settings, I have them saved in a profile no matter what. the 0-255 range forces me to use the nvidia settings which I do not want in that case, because it makes unreal colours on clothes or faces compared to default settings, albeit 16-237.

btw, I use standard Nvidia Drivers. I do not think I understood u correctly when u mentioned ms policy. I download drivers from the nvidia site when they update them, unpack the exe into a directory, go to device manager, totally uninstall the old drivers, make the update feature point to the display driver folder to install the new ones and copy the settings profile. Am I missing out on anything?



#22 antonino61

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:41 AM

@Camiel

The pundits have just told me I don't need a1ive, as I don't boot anything UEFI or off usb's.

So, I will stay with my g4d



#23 Camiel

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 01:41 PM

al1ve can be loaded by g4d.

Works as just another entry in the g4d menu list. That's how I use it. No need to translate anything to anything else, or UEFI or usb or anything. Just try it, it might load your vhds.

 

 

@v77

Driver updates can be turned off at system policy or registry. Even DDU has an option for it.



#24 antonino61

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 04:23 PM

so, is loading a1ive by g4d and then booting vhds off a1ive better or quicker than booting vhds straight from g4d?

if so, what parameters would u give bootice to load this a1ive thingy there?



#25 Camiel

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 05:42 PM

title a1ive
map --mem /grubfm.iso (0xff)
map --hook
chainloader (0xff)

just an entry on your g4d menu

that's all

no need for bootice 






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