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Ventoy - Open source USB boot utility for both BIOS and UEFI


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#276 steve6375

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Posted A week ago

AFAIK disks with GPT have the Disk Signature in MBR.

 

Many people will want to use Ventoy on all types of disks in the future. It is a shame to limit it to just disks made by Ventoy2Disk.exe.

Many people are asking on Forums about calling Ventoy from other bootloaders or disks.

Why not change location 0x180 to use Disk Signature now whilst still in development?

 

Is there any other reason why only disks made using Ventoy2Disk.exe will work?



#277 Wonko the Sane

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Posted A week ago

Besides, I don't known what's the situation in GPT partition style. Ventoy's UUID is used in both MBR and GPT partition style in the same way.

So is Disk Signature AFAIK.
 

AFAIK disks with GPT have the Disk Signature in MBR.


Sure :).
 
:duff:
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#278 ventoy

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Posted A week ago

AFAIK disks with GPT have the Disk Signature in MBR.

 

Many people will want to use Ventoy on all types of disks in the future. It is a shame to limit it to just disks made by Ventoy2Disk.exe.

Many people are asking on Forums about calling Ventoy from other bootloaders or disks.

Why not change location 0x180 to use Disk Signature now whilst still in development?

 

Is there any other reason why only disks made using Ventoy2Disk.exe will work?

 

As I said above, Ventoy was desgined as a whole solution and I only test it in the disk created by Ventoy2Disk.
There are many assumptions hard coded in the source code and scripts. For example:
1. There must be partition 2 in the disk
2. The partition 2 must be ESP partition and the directory structure must be the same as created by Ventoy2Disk
3. The partition 1 must has a cluster size >= 2048
4. .... and maybe other conditions that I didn't even remember but has subconsciously used
 
In one word, the disk partition layout was designed as part of Ventoy.
Ventoy was not designed to work with chainload or in a disk manully parted.
And I really have no time and energy to fix bugs for this "unofficial" usage.
 
Anyway, Ventoy is 100% open source and anyone can fork and modify it as they want.

Edited by ventoy, A week ago.


#279 steve6375

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Posted A week ago

OK - so basically Ventoy can only be used on disks made with Ventoy2Disk.exe.

 

So the Ventoy Compatible structure that you are asking developers to build into ISOs is only any good if the USB disk is made using Ventoy2Disk?

So Ventoy Compatible is a very niche feature which is not very attractive to developers and so is very unlikely to be adopted.

 

You say partition 2 must be ESP - what does that mean? Does the disk need to be MBR or GPT or either? Does the partition type number have to be EF? It seems to work fine with a partition type number of 0C?

 

For >=2048 byte FAT cluster size, the Partition 2 would need to be >128MB for FAT32  or >64MB FAT16 under Windows. I am not sure about defaults used by Linux?

 

I am sure you and many others would wish Ventoy technology to become widely adopted. Several people have already added Ventoy into their own multiboot systems. At the very least you should precisely define it's disk\partition requirements and ensure it works with standard MBRs.

 

The most successful products are always those that are designed to be as compatible as possible.



#280 ventoy

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Posted A week ago

OK - so basically Ventoy can only be used on disks made with Ventoy2Disk.exe.

 

So the Ventoy Compatible structure that you are asking developers to build into ISOs is only any good if the USB disk is made using Ventoy2Disk?

So Ventoy Compatible is a very niche feature which is not very attractive to developers and so is very unlikely to be adopted.

 

You say partition 2 must be ESP - what does that mean? Does the disk need to be MBR or GPT or either? Does the partition type number have to be EF? It seems to work fine with a partition type number of 0C?

 

For >=2048 byte FAT cluster size, the Partition 2 would need to be >128MB for FAT32  or >64MB FAT16 under Windows. I am not sure about defaults used by Linux?

 

I am sure you and many others would wish Ventoy technology to become widely adopted. Several people have already added Ventoy into their own multiboot systems. At the very least you should precisely define it's disk\partition requirements and ensure it works with standard MBRs.

 

The most successful products are always those that are designed to be as compatible as possible.

 

1、Actually YES. When I designed Ventoy Compatible structure I only considered the disk layout created by Ventoy. It's just an initiative.

 

2、Partition2 must be ESP, not very accurate. Only need to be FAT filesystem.

 

3、cluster size >=2048 is just for partition 1 not partition 2.

 

 

To be honest, the widespread use of Ventoy is a bit beyond my expectation. I designed it just for my interest and without very very thorough consideration.

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#281 steve6375

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Posted A week ago

Well there are very few good UEFI multiboot solutions available and modern systems are UEFI-only now.

Ventoy is unique and very innovative so I don't know why you are surprised that others want to use it too!  :rolleyes:



#282 steve6375

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Posted 4 days ago

I see Ventoy 1.0.21 UEFI now has added a very annoying check!

 

I understand your reasons, however this message seems to be displayed even if the boot drive has a unique size.

 

Your said there will not be a problem with Ventoy if the boot USB disk has a unique total size - but this 10 second delay is still shown even if the USB drive has a unique total capacity and there is no other drive present of the same size.

 

It would be better to be compatible with a standard MBR and use the Disk Signature instead of your special MBR Ventoy-UUID. The MBR Disk Signature is used by Linux and Windows and is guaranteed to be present and unique by both OS's. Please consider using it if you want Ventoy technology to be adopted by others or at least change the 10-second delay to only warn if there will be a problem.

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#283 ventoy

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Posted 4 days ago

I see Ventoy 1.0.21 UEFI now has added a very annoying check!

 

I understand your reasons, however this message seems to be displayed even if the boot drive has a unique size.

 

Your said there will not be a problem with Ventoy if the boot USB disk has a unique total size - but this 10 second delay is still shown even if the USB drive has a unique total capacity and there is no other drive present of the same size.

 

It would be better to be compatible with a standard MBR and use the Disk Signature instead of your special MBR Ventoy-UUID. The MBR Disk Signature is used by Linux and Windows and is guaranteed to be present and unique by both OS's. Please consider using it if you want Ventoy technology to be adopted by others or at least change the 10-second delay to only warn if there will be a problem.

 

 
Well, I will change the check policy in the next release.
 
The Ventoy/UUID or disk signature is not a big problem, I can add the disk signature as one of the conditions to distinguish disks in the next release.
 
But otherwise there are still some necessary conditions for Ventoy to work. 
Just as I said before, Ventoy was not designed to work with chainload or other disk structure.
 
So the new check policy will be:
 
Necessary Conditions, for example: 
1. There must be partition 1 and partition 2
2. ISO/WIM/VHD/IMG/EFI files must in partition1
3. Partition1's filesystem must FAT/exFAT/NTFS/UFS/XFS/Ext234
4. Partition1's cluster size must >= 2048
5. Partition2 must in FAT file system and hold all the Ventoy's directories and files as installed with Ventoy2Disk
 
These conditions are necessary for Ventoy. So Ventoy will NOT continue to boot if any one of them is not satisfied.
 
If these conditions are all satisfied. Ventoy will continue to boot. 
But I still will show a tip for a disk structure NOT created by Ventoy2Disk. 
The tip can be in a not so annoying way, maybe only a "unofficial" word in the main screen.
 
Because I only tested all the 550+ image files in this way(directly booted from BIOS and with Ventoy's disk layout).
I cannot guarantee that you will not have any problems with other usage(in a different disk layout or chainload).

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#284 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 4 days ago

Just thinking aloud :dubbio:, but maybe it would be possible to add to the second partition a "tag file" *like* Ventoy_unofficial.tag.

The Ventoy when booting could - once detected that the disk structure has not been created by Ventoy2disk - check for the presence of this file and read in it a timeout value, or if the file is not present go for the "full" 10 seconds warning.

 

But if the file exists and contains a line *like*:

Ventoy_Unofficial_Timeout=0

the timeout is reduced.

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#285 steve6375

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Posted 4 days ago

Yes - that would be great :)

1. Use Disk Signature

2. Check conditions - if fail then message + stop

3. If MBR not official then display 'Unofficial'

 

If anyone reports an issue with Ventoy to me, I always ask them to reproduce the issue using an 'official' Ventoy USB drive before reporting the issue to you anyway.


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