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Can i install windows 98 to img/vhd disk image mapped by grub4dos?

grub4dos windows98

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#1 JohnnSy

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:01 PM

Long time ago i did have an Windows Xp intalled in vhd file (using firadisk) and i could boot from it (event from ram).

 

Now I am trying to do something similar with Windows 98SE or ME but it is not working and I am not sure if it is RAM related (2x1GB), other hw conflict or I am just trying to do something imposibe.

 

Before wasting more time I come to ask if it is doable?

 

I did create a vhd (fixed size 4GB fat32) and copied windows me setup files.

Booted from floppy and started setup. Instalation seems to complete and after restart I couldnt boot it.

Tried some memory fixes without luck. I am geting some Windows  protection error system halted.

 

Here is my menu:

 

 

title Windows ME Setup\n
#find --set-root /t4g.vhd
map (hd1,0)/t4g.vhd (hd0)
map --mem (hd0,0)/img/win98se.img (fd0)
map (hd0,0)/iso/WindowsMe.iso (0xff)  ||  map --mem (hd0,0)/iso/WindowsMe.iso (0xff)
map --hook
chainloader (fd0)/IO.SYS




title Windows ME\n
#find --set-root /t4g.vhd
map (hd1,0)/t4g.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
map --harddrives=1
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /IO.SYS

 



#2 tinybit

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:34 AM

The job is done long ago for mapping Win98 image and booting it.

 

Notice Win98 seems to not work with large memory (2GB or more?).

 

You may try to "eat" off some memory before boot to win98 - say, e.g., only let Win98 see 512M memory.

 

In addition, nowadays you may lack hardware drivers for Win98. That could also cause failure.



#3 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 08:08 AM

Please also note that, though similar, Me and 98 are not exactly the same, since Me has not the same diffusion of 98 (SE) there are less info about peeople attempting to run it on modern hardware.

Still there are several threads on MSFN dedicated to the matter, where some of the 98 info may be valid for Me as well:

https://msfn.org/boa...8-windows-9xme/

 

A handy list of the most relevant ones is here:

https://msfn.org/boa...98-seme-topics/

 

You particularly want to check:

https://msfn.org/boa...than-1-gib-ram/

 

:duff:

Wonko



#4 JohnnSy

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:22 PM

Thank you for info and link.

 

I think problem was with ram (i got 2x1GB) because I didn't limit ram after first restart when installing Windows ME and it didn't work later (limiting ram).

I managed to install it on disk and than transferred to vdisk (vhd) and it boots when mapped to ram. Not tested fully yet (it hangs when shutting down...)

When I try to map it from drive I got some Windows protection error while initializing device NTKERN



#5 tinybit

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 07:34 PM

if it failed when mapping on disk,try again with the --in-situ option:


title Windows ME\n
#find --set-root /t4g.vhd
map --in-situ (hd1,0)/t4g.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
map --harddrives=1
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /IO.SYS

#6 JohnnSy

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 08:20 PM

if it failed when mapping on disk,try again with the --in-situ option:

 

I think it mapped fine. It gives me option to boot in safe mode, normal ....

When I select normal boot I get: Windows protection error while initializing device NTKERN

And when I boot in safe mode it just restart.

 

On grub4dos github readme page I found:

 

When a HARD DISK emulation is used, better not start Windows for
security reasons. Windows may even destroy all data and all information
on all your real hard disks!!!!!!!!


Update for --mem: when --mem is used, it seems rather safe even after
entering Windows. Win98 can operate the memdrive normally.

So I am not sure if it is posible to boot without --mem?



#7 tinybit

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:00 PM

yes, hard drive emulation is in risk for win9x/Me.

anyway, you could try the --in-situ map option, which is originally designed for win9x.

test it again and again, until you think of it as reliable.

if you does not have to use hard drive emulation, then you surely should avoid using it, and instead, use the --mem option.

#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:19 AM

It still sounds to me like a RAM issue.

 

Sadly :( , R.Loew has recently passed away, his sons have allowed the use of some of his programs, including his patch for limiting memory:

https://msfn.org/boa...as-passed-away/

https://archive.org/details/PATCHMEM

You may want to try it.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#9 JohnnSy

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 10:33 AM

It still sounds to me like a RAM issue.
 
Sadly :( , R.Loew has recently passed away, his sons have allowed the use of some of his programs, including his patch for limiting memory:
https://msfn.org/boa...as-passed-away/
https://archive.org/details/PATCHMEM
You may want to try it.
 
:duff:
Wonko


Thank you for links.
When booting from real disk I managed to boot with 1991 MB.
With vhd I tried lovering it (in system.ini) to 700MB without succes.
Today I will try the patch.

RIP R.Loew

#10 JohnnSy

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 07:10 PM

With patchmem Windows ME now uses full 2gb of ram when booting from (real) disk.

Boots like before in ram (--mem vhd).

But I got same error when trying to boot without --mem parameter.

 

This is my menu.lst

 

title Windows ME\n
map (hd1,1)/wme.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
map --harddrives=1
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /IO.SYS

I have found none of similar menu.lst trying to accomplish something similar (only with xp or newer).

I will try newer grub4dos version.



#11 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 07:22 PM

Have you tried (as you were suggested twice by one of the (previous) grub4dos developers, that surely knows where his towel is) the --in-situ option? :dubbio:

 

It could well be a conflict between grub4dos and large amount of memory (patch or not patch), on the given threads on MSFN there are  if I recall correctly - several different methods to limit RAM, maybe another one would work?

 

Or maybe the way you installed the system *somehow* crated "problematic" .vxd(s) that only work when the disk is fully virtualized in memory but not when there is both a real hard disk and the mapped image.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#12 JohnnSy

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 06:49 PM

It is not a ram issue - I changed it to only one 512MB RAM stick - same behavior.

 

When using --in-situ I get error: Error 17 - Cannot mount selected partition

 

When I map it from console (without --mem or --in-situ) I can see files on mapped drive ls (hd0,0)/

 

Searching on net I found some guy got problem with CHS... Is there a way to check for these values in a vhd disk?

It seem that there is some Window ME issue or I messed something when creating or copying content on vhd.

I created vhd file using diskpart than attached it and copied content from physical disk to vdisk using northon ghost.

What is weird for me that it works when mapping to ram. Are those processes so different?

I created vhd file on ntfs fs (hd0,1) and later I tried coping it also to fat32 fs on (hd0.0) same results on both.

 

I will try mapping it from usb; also on another hw and  maybe I will try it with Windows 98SE...



#13 tinybit

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 02:01 AM

--in-situ Error 17 - Cannot mount selected partition

 

You need a free partition entry in your MBR partition table.

 

Did you exhaust all the 4 entries in your MBR on your real hard drive (hd1) ?

 

The --in-situ requires an empty entry in the MBR partition table on the real hard drive.



#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:47 AM

There is no problem with checking the CHS geometry.

Get the MBRVIEW.G4B batch here:

http://reboot.pro/to...l-for-grub4dos/

and run it from grub4dos.

 

Either post the results or check them yourself, either manually or using this spreadsheet (another shameless plug):

http://reboot.pro/to...a-translations/

 

A doubt. :dubbio:

The .vhd you made, how exactly did you create it?

Or, are you sure-sure that it is a "static" .vhd (i.e. a RAW image with a single Conectix sector appended and NOT a "dynamic" one?

 

:duff:

Wonko



#15 JohnnSy

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 07:33 PM

--in-situ Error 17 - Cannot mount selected partition

 

You need a free partition entry in your MBR partition table.

 

Did you exhaust all the 4 entries in your MBR on your real hard drive (hd1) ?

 

The --in-situ requires an empty entry in the MBR partition table on the real hard drive.

 

Physical disk:

DISKPART> list partition


  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset
  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------
  Partition 1    Primary             49 GB    31 KB
  Partition 2    Primary            183 GB    50 GB

vdisk:

DISKPART> list partition


  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset
  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------
  Partition 1    Primary           1534 MB    64 KB

A doubt. :dubbio:

The .vhd you made, how exactly did you create it?

Or, are you sure-sure that it is a "static" .vhd (i.e. a RAW image with a single Conectix sector appended and NOT a "dynamic" one?

 

:duff:

Wonko

Before I created vdisk using diskpart (I don't remember exact command) but file was same size as vdisk 1.5GB.

Today I created vhd using Disk Managment (GUI) on Windows 10, initialized it with mbr and created fat32 partition. Using northon ghost I copied partition image created from backup image (of partition) with working windows 98 on it.

 

Also today I deleted all partition from Win ME machine and created just one 10GB fat 32 (using parted magic) and copied vhd on it - I got same error when trying booting. Also --in-situ doesn't work like before.

 

When I try to boot it from vhd on usb I got different error:

While initializing device IOS
Error: An I/O subsystem in the .\iosubsys subdirectory is corrupt,
or the system is low on memory.

I tried limiting cache in but it didn't help. There is installed R.Loew patch on systen in vhd.

[vcache]
maxfilecache=6144

Probably I just install different version of windows on separate partition and use g4d to manage booting them (no vdisk images).

Maybe is my hw incompatible with something...

Installed disk is 250 GB but windows doesn't have problem when is installed on physical disk partition so I am not sure if it can cause problems?



#16 tinybit

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 12:30 AM

Physical disk:

DISKPART> list partition


 
Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset
  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------
  Partition 1    Primary             49 GB    31 KB
 
Partition 2    Primary            183 GB    50 GB

 

You have 2 physical disks (hd0) and (hd1). Which one was listed? Could you please list the other one?



#17 JohnnSy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 07:34 AM

You have 2 physical disks (hd0) and (hd1). Which one was listed? Could you please list the other one?

I got just one.

Command diskpart was used on winpe booted from usb stick. Maybe usb was hd0  (or winpe image - I am not sure if those are treated like hd).

And than I attached vdisk so it was another hd.

But when I trying to boot vhd there are only 3 hd.

Usb stick - (on start hd0)

Physical one - (on start hd1)

Vdisk - vhd file - (when i select that option in D4G it mounts it as hd0 )



#18 tinybit

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 07:45 AM

your listed partitions are for which drive? USB drive or internal hard drive?

you should list the internal hard drive, since your vhd file is on it.

if your vhd file is on the usb drive, then you should list the usb drive.



#19 JohnnSy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 07:59 AM

your listed partitions are for which drive? USB drive or internal hard drive?

you should list the internal hard drive, since your vhd file is on it.

if your vhd file is on the usb drive, then you should list the the usb drive.

Listed drive is internal hard drive.

But I also tried it to boot from usb stick which is 30GB NTFS partition



#20 JohnnSy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 09:41 AM

So now I initialized vdisk file differently and after first restart of Win 98SE install I get:

While initializing device IOS
Error: An I/O subsytem driver failed to load
Either a file in the .\iosubsys subdirectory is corrupt,
or the system is low on memory.

Now when I try to use --in-situ i get:

Invalid partition table


#21 tinybit

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 10:14 AM

can you show your partition table of  the drive where your vhd resides?

 

i guess if you cannot successfully map with --in-situ, then you will not be able to gain  win9x/me desktop, unless you use --mem.



#22 JohnnSy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 10:59 AM

Not sure what or how to show you this partition table?

I can boot in win pe. Is there some commad in cmd tho show this?

I can also boot windows 98se from physical disk? Maybe something there?



#23 tinybit

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 11:35 AM

grub4dos could be used to show partition table.

 

at a grub4dos command line prompt, type these commands:

 

cat  --hex  (hd0)+1

 

cat  --hex  (hd1)+1

 

the whole mbr sectors will show out, including the partition tables.



#24 JohnnSy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 11:43 AM

grub4dos could be used to show partition table.

 

at a grub4dos command line prompt, type these commands:

 

cat  --hex  (hd0)+1

 

cat  --hex  (hd1)+1

 

the whole mbr sectors will show out, including the partition tables.

Is there a way to save it to txt file?

There is a lot of text...



#25 tinybit

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 02:40 PM

you may take some pictures for them.







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