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Making the smallest Win10 install (Wimboot mode) on 512 MB VHD

wimboot ramboot

Best Answer alacran , 20 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

Well, I think now this thread has all info, I'm going to make a summary of all relevant post you need to follow to be able to Create and Ramboot from a Wimboot VHD and also how to make a compressed copy (to keep as backup) of the coupled files required to wimboot.

 

I started this thread thinking the smallest the best, and was able to run a 512 MB VHD, as the name of the thread says, but during the development of this thread I change my mind and decided that a 1.5 GB VHD is a good size to load a VHD in RAM on an acceptable time, and this size VHD is also capable to Ramboot on PCs with a minimum of 4 GB of RAM.

 

Introductory info and required programs: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209470

 

Making the VHD: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209472

 

Optionally apply unnatend.xml, services modifications and control Telemetry during install: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209480

 

Install your programs, SVBus driver and Capture Wimboot Image: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209483

 

Apply Wimboot Image to a 1.5 VHD: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209485

 

Installing your Wimboot VHD on a USB device and Ramboot: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209488

 

You may consider this as an Hybrid Ramboot: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209518

 

Selecting to use wimlib on WinNTSetup: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209568

 

What I put on my VHD: http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209602

 

Improve Portability: http://reboot.pro/to...e-4#entry209809

 

EDIT: I finally found some info about the WimBootCompress.ini file located on WinNTSetup\Tools\, see: https://wimlib.net/f...wtopic.php?t=16

 

Custom WimBootCompress.ini: http://reboot.pro/to...e-4#entry209815

 

cdob comments: http://reboot.pro/to...e-4#entry209834

 

Making copies of coupled files (VHD + wimboot wim file) for backup pourposes: http://reboot.pro/to...e-5#entry209917

 

cdob suggestion for redirect on the VHD the path to source wim file: http://reboot.pro/to...e-6#entry209947

 

Custom WimBootCompress-2019-03-18.ini: http://reboot.pro/to...e-6#entry209949

 

karyonix suggestion for redirect on the VHD the path to source wim file: http://reboot.pro/to...e-6#entry209952

 

More cdob comments: http://reboot.pro/to...e-6#entry209976

 

Redirect the VHD path to wimboot wim file is finally a success: http://reboot.pro/to...e-6#entry209979

 

NOTE: When relocating the files, edit the BCD(s) may be required, better check to be sure all will work fine.

 

EDIT: If for any reason you want to reduce the source wim file see: http://reboot.pro/to...zx-compression/

 

New version of WinNTSetup with new features, for more info see: http://reboot.pro/to...-beta-1-update/

 

Hope this can be of any help for some of our members.

 

Best Regards

 

alacran

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#26 blackbalfur

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:05 PM

@alacran that is how it works you install all the things you want on first step and then you create the wimboot file.

 

I will show you mine own setup:

 

zUAZycZ.jpg

 

That is with the big nvidia video drivers included.

 

Also winrar, sumatra, virtual clone drive, k-lite codec pack, vlc, chrome browser with personal settings, java, c-cleaner, shadow defender.

 

The size of my wimbootfile is 5.87 Gb as you can see here:

 

LFQzbeL.jpg

 

But where you choose 1 gb i prefere 5 gb so that the os can breathe more freely.

 

I can create one with 1 gb if i want as you can see but i do not prefere it.

 

The space that the os takes with all that installed is just 637 mb, i must notice that this is built with windows 8.1 embedded industry pro with update 3 and is the full version.

 

My sollution for growing to big is freezing my os with shadow defender:

 

http://www.shadowdef....com/index.html

 

Every reboot your os will be a virgin.

 

My look on using rambooting with a wimboot file is cloudy, to me you cripple the real power of an os running in ram.

 

But that is a personal thought.


Edited by blackbalfur, 03 March 2019 - 12:09 PM.


#27 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:07 PM

The rest of my alternative is in another link, you can check it out if you like:

 

http://reboot.pro/topic/21948-my-look-on-wimboot-and-tutorial/

 

 

Which is fine, I personally don' t like it,  nor the way it requires to download extremely large files (of dubious origin and redistributability to say the very least :w00t: :ph34r:) from mega.nz, let alone the use of mega downloader (something I use my 3.5 feet poles to NOT touch).

 

But at least those that might be interested NOW have an actual alternative.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#28 blackbalfur

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:30 PM

Which is fine, I personally don' t like it,  nor the way it requires to download extremely large files (of dubious origin and redistributability to say the very least :w00t: :ph34r:) from mega.nz, let alone the use of mega downloader (something I use my 3.5 feet poles to NOT touch).

 

But at least those that might be interested NOW have an actual alternative.

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

It does not requires to download extremely large files to use my tutorial but i can't use the edit button on my own topic.

 

All what is needed is simply vhd manager:

 

https://www.sordum.o...d-manager-v1-3/

 

And 3 simple cmd files containing the following:

 

1.

 

Dism /apply-image /imagefile:C:/install.esd /index:1 /ApplyDir:K:\

 

2.

 

dism /capture-image /imagefile:C:\install.Wim /capturedir:K:\ /name:install /wimboot

 

3.

 

dism /apply-image /imagefile:C:\install.Wim /index:1 /applydir:K:\ /wimboot

 

 

 

Install.esd or install.wim in cmd 1 can be every install file from the dvd you prefere (from windows 8.1 update 1 and up)

 

In my topic i gave an example file to use you are not forced to use it.

 

If you would have read the topic you would have noticed i mentioned that.

 

But again i'm crippled by not being able to edit my own topic.

 

So you do not have to download anything from mega.nz is the end conclussion.

 

And all you need is under 1 mb.

 

wanted to add that to my start topic but i cannot.



#29 alacran

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 01:13 PM

Deleted for using Red Color Capital Letters of big size in some parts of the post.

I apologize with all Forum Members for this behaviour.

 

alacran


Edited by alacran, 03 March 2019 - 03:10 PM.


#30 blackbalfur

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 01:35 PM

What is up with the big letters mate?

 

I was referring to:

 

Some times on WinNTSetup Windows API do not let us install an OS on a very limited space (VHD on this case), as an example I wasn't able to wimboot install my  Full Win8.1x64 (dic 2014) on a 1 GB VHD, even if I previously used a tool to remove all (CR)Apps from the Iso before the first install (about 400 MB from the Iso).

 

You very clearly say there that you could not install your os on a very limited space with regular WinNTSetup.

 

As an alternative i gave you another option that does install to a 1 gb vhd directly without the WinNTSetup tool.

 

Don't come with childish big letters to me and tell me i do not know how the WinNTsetup tool works.

 

What are you talking about man?

 

This is not a contest or anything we are here to learn from eachother.

 

You are talking about criticizing and enlightening comments man i do not understand where i was criticizing your work.

 

I can tell you that you are the one that has to read what is said and tell me again i criticize your work!

 

 


Edited by blackbalfur, 03 March 2019 - 01:48 PM.


#31 antonino61

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:04 PM

We r here for things and ideas, not for ppl and moods, pls cooperate

#32 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:33 PM

Deleted for using Red Color Capital Letters of big size in some parts of the post.

I apologize with all Forum Members for this behaviour.

 

alacran

Well, no, that's not enough :w00t:.

 

You will have to write 100 times "I won't write again BIG RED LETTERS on reboot.pro" ;)

bart-simpson-generator.php?line=I+won%27

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#33 alacran

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:47 PM

@antonino61

 

Sorry my friend, but since the very first post it was said this:

 

 

Of course you can make this in several diferent ways, but here I will transmit the way I make it in order to get the smallest source.wim (standard express 4K compressed) and installed OS, very usefull as a portable version.

 

You can use DISM for all the procedure, but wimlib-imagex  from Synchronicity is faster and gives us better compression rates, in order to make things easier for all people like me, that when available prefer a graphic program we will use wimlib-clc from ReTokener a GUI for wimlib-imagex, (for those prefering command line this program has the posivility to save required commands if you want, so I will not comment about wimlib-imagex commands in this thread.

 

And latter there is a list of the only programs that will use and the reasons why are allready explained, why the hell someone is insisting in every post to do things other way and referencing to his thread, in first place this guy is a layer, he claims he can't edit his posts and all of them are edited. Also since his first post here is some comment to do things other way like:

 

 

This is a nice  way to rome but there are more ways.

 

If he or other people want to make things the way they want, they are totally free to open his own thread and there explain how they like to do it.

 

i answered very friendly several times but he comes back again and again with offtopic or absurd comments. Like when I have just said we can use certain alternative on one of the programs, I'm giving the answer to the problem. There is no need to suggest Dism as since the beginig was said it will not be used on this procedure and the reason why.

 

Yourself got from him some of that absurd nonsense comments too.

 

 

I don't know mabe it ate to much.

 

I really don't understand his behaviour.

 

EDIT: Only thing I'm sure is his avatar represents him very well.

 

alacran



#34 blackbalfur

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 04:47 PM

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings friend but i will not go on in your silly and insulting remarks.



#35 antonino61

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 05:14 PM

Sorry to butt in in the most inappropriate way and time, but... Will the vhd get any smaller on account of our quibbling?

#36 alacran

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 05:52 PM

@antonimo61

 

Sorry to butt in in the most inappropriate way and time, but... Will the vhd get any smaller on account of our quibbling?

 

I'm totally sure it won't.

 

Almost all you add (excluding drivers) is installed as Hard Links to the source .wim file, but seems all drivers and other files/folders listed on WimBootCompress.ini don't.

 

If you want to see what are real datas ocuping space on the VHD and what are only Hard links, open your VHD (when not running it) with 7 zip, all that is cero size is only Hard Links, and all having a diferent to cero size is real data phisically on the VHD (you can do same thing on install.wim files with several indexes and see all the Hard links too). 

 

This is the reason why you can add alot of info to the first install and then when captured as wimboot and latter installed as wimboot almost all you added will be only Hard Links.

 

alacran



#37 antonino61

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 08:40 PM

I sorta believe u, even though, on my 3rd re-wimbooting, I can see a smaller and smaller vhd; it is also a vhd that tends to bulge even more easily, which requires expanding more often than before.
Besides, I was playing with my wife's laptop and captured and wimbooted hers too, the only difference being that this time I forgot to undo the symlinks that had always characterized my past deploys. The result was a 360mb vhd!

#38 alacran

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:13 AM

After all tests made, there are finally two sizes proposed for RamBooting the PORTABLE VHDs:

 

2 GB

Wimb (author of UEFI_MULTI) seems to be testing diferent sizes but I think he likes better to use 2 GB size when booting from an external SSD:  SAMSUNG Portable SSD T5 250 GB there is no doubt this is a very fast device.

 

 

wimlib-clc CAPTURE followed by APPLY is important to reduce the size of the WIMBOOT Operating System from 3,5 GB down to 600 MB 

so that it can be located in VHD of Size 2 GB with total boottime 30 seconds which is OK.

 

1 GB

I used a MicroSDHC 32GB UHS-I Kingston SDCS/32GB CL10, 80R (Canvas Select) connected with a USB 3.0 adapter and after some tests decided 1 GB is small enought to be loaded on Ram at a reasonably speed:

 

 

it took only 48 seconds to reach desktop, and all was working very fine OS do not feel slow.

 

But this device is a better alternative to mine: Kingston model Canvas Go! with 90 MB/sec on reading speed and 45 MB/sec on writing speed.

 

How to decide the size of your VHD:

 

The size you select depends of the Ram available on the PC where you will run the VHD, remember you need to kept enought free Ram to run all programs. From one of my previous Posts. http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry209513

 

 

I would like to give you some very conservative guidance about required Ram to boot this wimboot VHDs:

 

Basically 8.x and 10 takes a little less than 1 GB of Ram (from 800 MB to 1 GB) without internet connection + the size of your VHD (I'm using at the moment 1GB) loaded on Ram + the Ram required to run each program you open, let's say another 1 GB, so I'm almost sure any machine with 4 GB of Ram is capable to run this VHDs.

 

Really this gives about 3 GB of Ram requided in this case.

 

But it seems you may try 1.5 GB size if you don't mind wait a little more to load the VHD on RAM, on machines with 4 GB of Ram.

 

alacran

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#39 alacran

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:58 AM

If you are planning for some reason to use this approach for your everyday system I think it is preferable to make a wimboot install but directly to your internal HD on a dedicated partition/drive, here you have 2 options:

 

RamBoot OS - Use a VHD of enought size but remember your installed Ram.

 

Not RamBoot OS - You may use a VHD if you want, but it is not really required and in fact adds additional load to your CPU when working this way, you can make a wimboot mode install directly on the root on a just formated partition/drive.

 

Usually on not portable environments unless you have a very limited space on your internal Mass Storage I would not recommend this wimboot mode install, was very used some time ago on 8.1 x64 tablets with 32 GB SSD, also on HDMI devices powered with an USB cable.

 

I think this covers all I can say about wimboot installs using WinNTSetup.



#40 antonino61

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:51 AM

Now 310mb on my wife's. 1.5gb on mine but it's m
much bulkier no USB booting, times better on mine 20sec vs my wife's amd laptop, about a minute

#41 wimb

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 02:13 PM

Hi alacran,

 

I have published in my thread UEFI_MULTI a Manual for VHD WIMBOOT and have made a reference to your WIMBOOT subject  :)

 

:cheers:


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#42 antonino61

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 03:50 PM

1729mb my vhd now; well, it has grown larger. let us see if it is stable at this size.



#43 antonino61

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 09:05 PM

My dear friends, if u r short on space, do compress and be bound by the bulges you experience now and them, which dictates that you should expand your vhd. I did so up to 2048mb. then, since I have a lot of space on disk and in memory, I always use an identical vhd beside the running one (just in case something goes wrong with the latter) and decided to make either one no compression at all, no compact at all, etc. It is now at 7340mb and it is the quickest, so do not compress unless you have to, as as self-defining stroppy wonko says. The wim file gets smaller and smaller every re-capture (now at 8414mb). I have not noticed any physical or conceptual difference between create and append yet. If any of you could tell me more about it, I would appreciate it very much. 

nino

ps.: a less-than-16gb windows os is what I can consider acceptable, to say the least. now I will try ramloading.



#44 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 09:15 AM

ps.: a less-than-16gb windows os is what I can consider acceptable, to say the least. now I will try ramloading.

 

It's good to see how everyone is free to draw lines in the sand at very different places :).

 

I would define (actually I do define) a 16 GB Os as totally unaccettable (the fact that it is widely accepted is another thing).

 

That is, until someone will prove to me that it provides more than 10 times the utility (and speed) of a XP install (around 1.5 GB), more than 20 times the utility (and speed) of a Win2K (around 700 MB) and more than 100 times the utility (and speed) of a NT 4.0 (around 160 MB).

 

Which doesn't mean that one must stick to now obsolete OS versions, only that one must know that 90% of the 16 GB is only fluff, bells and whistles and either programming incompetence or lazyness, and that he/she is being forced to accept the unacceptable.

 

Roughly 8 GB is much better than 16 GB, of course :), still ...

 

:duff:

Wonko



#45 antonino61

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 10:38 AM

Have u also considered the burden of reinstalling apps across os setups to put everything back up and running again with all systems up to win8.1? Win10 does not require all that. 16gb, I meant with all up and running. On the fluff I agree with u totally and thoroughly, so much so that I am prepared to accept instructions as to how to contribute to debloating it even further. I really set great store by this.
Nino

Ps: as for the widely accepted size of win10 out there, the quota is 70gb, or at least that is what is commonly known.



#46 alacran

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 04:05 PM

After some tests on other PCs, I have also found what wimb said here:

 

 

I have used VHD WIMBOOT booting from Portable SSD now on different hardware.

 

On Unknown hardware first a VHD of 5 GB is preferred in booting as FILEDISK so that there is enough space to install all drivers.
After this learning step we can do CAPTURE and APPLY to VHD of Size 2 GB and boot from USB with Grub4dos from RAMDISK.
 
On each machine it takes extra boottime to adjust the drivers for that machine.
Also returning on original machine takes extra time to readjust the drivers.
 
The VHD WIMBOOT solution is Portable, but not as flexible as Win10XPE, where boottime is not dependant on machine hardware.

Source: http://reboot.pro/to...e-7#entry209671

 

I have put all my effort on trying to let people with a minimum of 4 GB of Ram use this approach, unfortunatelly wimb's suggestion of Rambooting a 5 GB VHD is not aceptable in this cases.  So it means you have to make all the procedure for each machine and then portability is lost.

A possible alternative is do not create a VHD and make the wimboot install on it, we can make a wimboot install directly on the root of a NTFS partition/drive of our USB device, we will lose RamBoot but not portability

 

alacran


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#47 wimb

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 04:15 PM

Well my idea for portability is to have two VHD's

- On couple of other machines boot first with 10 GB VHD WIMBOOT as FILEDISK from Boot Manager Menu and  let Win10 Install all drivers

- At Home After booting with Win10 x64 OS then CAPTURE WIM of 10 GB VHD - Format and APPLY WIM on 2 GB VHD Or 1 GB VHD if desired for 4GB RAM machines

- Next time Boot with 1-2 GB VHD WIMBOOT on USB with Grub4dos menu from RAMDISK on all other machines

 

In this way you have some learning on a couple of machines, but then the WIM has improved and can be used on all machines .... 

 

That principle of learning, where the SYSTEM registry is improving, is already working since the days of Windows eXPerience  ;)


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#48 blackbalfur

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 05:04 PM

@ wimb or you have lets say 3 vhd files created with wimboot file they are just only 1 or 2 gb in size and make seperate boot entries for them.

for example 1 called "home" second "school" and another called "office"

 

First time let it boot as filedisk, capture all drivers then make it reboot into ram and you are ready to go.

 

You do not need the 10 gb vhd this way.

 

The drivers will take some space with this setup.

 

Also it is faster to use and more portable only downside is the size of 3 vhd files.

 

But with todays hardware that isn't a real problem anymore.


Edited by blackbalfur, 06 March 2019 - 05:08 PM.


#49 antonino61

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 05:54 PM

Last night I got hold of boot.sdi sized 312kb instead of 3mb. is there any use I can make of it for size and speed purposes in the vhd? if so, how? I arrived at placing it in windows\system32. there is another file in the zip provided which is called boot300.par. I couldn't go any further even if I should. 



#50 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:27 PM

Last night I got hold of boot.sdi sized 312kb instead of 3mb. is there any use I can make of it for size and speed purposes in the vhd? if so, how? I arrived at placing it in windows\system32. there is another file in the zip provided which is called boot300.par. I couldn't go any further even if I should. 

Well, likely it is the result of an experiment (or a copy/derivative of it) we made a lot of time ago on MSFN (all the work has been carried by Joakim Schicht after an initial sparkle by yours truly), if you are interested, the thread is here:

 

https://msfn.org/boa...ize-of-bootsdi/

 

And of course WHERE exactly you got it from may make a difference.

The .par file is likely a (meaningless for such a small and single file) .par file, JFYI:

http://www.quickpar.org.uk/

 

You'd better get the "original" one (just in case):

https://code.google....ownloads?page=2

https://storage.goog...oot_sdi_300.zip

 

:duff:

Wonko





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