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WDpassport 2TB USB3HDD wont boot on some systems


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#1 Zoso

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 03:20 AM

hi all

I have a WD passport 0820 2TB (~1875GB useable) USB3.0 HDD

it has three primary partitions and one extended with six logical partitions.

P1 is Fat32 and the rest are NTFS

I can boot multiple (countless) OS from this on most systems but today I found a second system that does not even recognize it as a bootable USB.

both systems that do not recognize it for booting were toshiba laptops (years apart) but they both recognize all other USB HDDs I have tried.

when i first got this WD USB3.0 HDD, the first thing I noticed was that it prompted windows needing a driver (WD SES Device)

it came with the drivers but i never install them and it always works without them. im not sure if that has anything to do with the booting problem though. i just thought it was odd that it needed drivers and this is my largest USB HDD.

both the laptops that wont boot from it are older one with usb2.0

has anyone else run across USB HDDs that do not show up as bootable? both systems that wont boot it, see it fine when its plugged into them while they are running.


thanks

#2 dencorso

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 06:29 AM

IMO, the problem must be the BIOS in those laptops doesn't recognize the WD USB3.0 HDD.
Try searching for an update or modded BIOS... even if usually there's none to be found.



#3 steve6375

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:50 AM

Have you tested the Toshiba with any other large USB drives (>137GB)?

 

Do you mean that the 2TB drive is not listed by the BIOS as a boot drive?

is it listed in the BIOS Selection menu pop-up? Is it listed in the BIOS settings boot drive options?

Have you tried ctrl-alt-del to allow drive to spin-up?

Have you tried using a USB Y-cable and two USB 2 ports to get more power?

Have you tried all possible USB ports (front and rear)?

 

Can you post a copy of the MBR of the USB drive (RMPRepUSB - Drive Info - 0)



#4 Zoso

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 12:32 PM

IMO, the problem must be the BIOS in those laptops doesn't recognize the WD USB3.0 HDD.
Try searching for an update or modded BIOS... even if usually there's none to be found.

hi dencorso

i have updated the bios to the latest one available. this laptop is not mine so a its not worth trying a modded bios. when windows is running on it, it does 'see' the WD when it is connected and i can transfer data to and from it.

thanks

Have you tested the Toshiba with any other large USB drives (>137GB)?

Do you mean that the 2TB drive is not listed by the BIOS as a boot drive?
is it listed in the BIOS Selection menu pop-up? Is it listed in the BIOS settings boot drive options?
Have you tried ctrl-alt-del to allow drive to spin-up?
Have you tried using a USB Y-cable and two USB 2 ports to get more power?
Have you tried all possible USB ports (front and rear)?

Can you post a copy of the MBR of the USB drive (RMPRepUSB - Drive Info - 0)

hi steve675

it is not listed in bios settings. this sys has a peculiar way to boot usb, it does not have usb listed in the bios settings menu as option for booting at all (any usbs) so to boot from any usb, F12 must be pressed upon boot up then if a usb is attached it will be there, except for this WD is not.

I will try cntrl-alt-del as you suggest but i do not have a 'Y' usb3 cable.

I have tried the ports on both sides put not all of them so i will try this now too.

i'll run rmprepusb on it and post the report.

edit:

Spoiler


thanks

#5 steve6375

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:02 PM

Might be useful to compare this MBR with your other USB HDDs.

To find out why the Toshiba notebooks don't like it, it would be necessary to re-partition the WD 2TB which I am guessing you don't want to do!

 

Some notebooks are a bit 'weak' in their 5V USB supply. If you use a Y-cable then you can use two USB ports and thus get twice the power.

If you have an IODD, they will show the USB voltage. Check if it is 5V.

if you have a powered USB hub - plug it into that.



#6 Zoso

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:53 PM

i have a y cable but its usb2.0 and i do have a usb voltage meter. didnt think about that. I'll check it now.

i dont want to rearrange the WD but if its not able to boot in all systems then I will get something else and use this one for storage only. but the reason i got it was so I could keep everything on it and boot everything from it.

thanks

#7 steve6375

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:55 PM

A USb 2 Y-cable should be fine.



#8 Zoso

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:34 PM

A USb 2 Y-cable should be fine.

the connection on the HDD for the cable is not a usb type connection. i have three USB3.0 HDDs and they all have this new connector so no way to use my usb2.0 y cable on them.



now for something interesting.. i put my usb voltmeter in and then plugged the WD into it and was going to read the voltage while trying to boot it and it was listed in the boot menu and it booted after selecting it!

5.05 volts BTW

i removed the inline voltmeter and the WD is no longer listed in the boot menu.

hmmm..
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#9 alacran

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:56 AM

The data terminals of external USB HDD do not make a good contact to USB ports on laptop when conected directly, but they do to your Voltmeter.


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#10 dencorso

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:00 AM

i put my usb voltmeter in and then plugged the WD into it and was going to read the voltage while trying to boot it and it was listed in the boot menu and it booted after selecting it!

5.05 volts BTW

i removed the inline voltmeter and the WD is no longer listed in the boot menu.

 

The data terminals of external USB HDD do not make a good contact to USB ports on laptop when conected directly, but they do to your Voltmeter.

 

Do you have one of those short passive USB 2.0 extensions which use to come with 3G/4G internet dongles?
If so, connect the male connector to the laptop and the female to the HDD USB 3.0 male connector.
It should work just well as the voltmeter, if alacran's hypotesis is right, and I bet it is!



#11 cdob

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:03 AM

i removed the inline voltmeter and the WD is no longer listed in the boot menu.

Try a strange approach:
Use a USB cable for mobile phones to connect the USB 3.0 hdd and the Laptop.
This connects the USB3 HDD at USB 2.0 mode.

#12 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

Do you have one of those short passive USB 2.0 extensions which use to come with 3G/4G internet dongles?

 

 

Use a USB cable for mobile phones to connect the USB 3.0 hdd and the Laptop.

 

Aren't those what we highly specialized technicians ;) use to call USB A extension cable? :dubbio:

*like*:

https://www.usbcable.../extension.html

 

:duff:

Wonko



#13 cdob

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 03:27 PM

The idea was a USB Micro-B USB 2.0 versus a USB Micro-B SuperSpeed USB 3.0.
A lot of mobile devices uses a USB Micro-B 2.0 port nowadays, granted not all.

Backward compatibility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0
https://en.wikipedia...d_(USB_3.0).jpg

The HDD is a 2.5" drive with three to four platters inside.
It's about physics: angular mass
There is a clitch at spinup timing.
The USB HDD firmware adjust the power consumption at spinup. Spinup time is delayed.
The BIOS asks for available USB devices. If the hard disk is not available, the BISO dosn't detect it.
At running windows the windows driver waits for the USB hard disk to spin up: the hard disk is avaible.
It's about BIOS and firmware timing at given hardware.
The hard disk is available at a good cable (all connectors and cable itself) and good power supply. USB booting is possible.
The BIOS dosn't find the USB HDD given a bad USB connection and/or a bad power supply.

A different cable can get a different result.
If a USB A to Micro-B USB 2.0 cable is available, then it's worth a try.

#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 05:06 PM

I thought we were following alacran's suggestion.

 

The "USB voltmeter" Zoso has should be a small box with a USB A male (to be inserted in the USB A port of the computer) and a USB A female (in which you insert a SUB A male device), something roughly like:

https://images-na.ss...L70_FMwebp_.jpg

 

If the issue is the USB A connector (either the port on the PC or the male connector on the WD hard disk cable) making poor contact then inserting in the middle a (good) USB A extension cable may do something, but if the issue is not connected with a bad contact, it won't do anything (and as well the USB A male to Micro-B USB 2.0 cable).

 

I.e. if (for whatever "side effect") it is the voltmeter that triggers *something* it cannot be replaced by a passive cable.

 

And if the issue (again for whatever reasons) is on the Micro USB 3.0 side of the WD cable (or in the WD enclosure port) the voltmeter should not be changing anything at all.

 

I now understand that the alternative theory is that something in the USB 3.0 cable may be different from a similar USB 2.0 cable.

 

So the idea is to use INSTEAD of a USB 3.0 A to Micro-B Superspeed cable, a USB 2.0 A to Micro-B cable, plugging it in the "left side" of the USB 3.0 Superspeed receptacle on the hard disk.

 

I would still try a Y cable, like these:

USB 2.0:

https://www.startech...ro-B~USB2HAUBY1

USB 3.0:

https://oyendigital....-3-Y-CABLE.html

Or "generic" like this:

https://www.aliexpre...0208.4.1.aCBta3

 

The one Zoso already has is likely a Y cable with two A Males to one Mini B:

https://www.startech...ni-B~USB2HABMY3

or the older kind with two USB A and a B male:

http://www.stuartcon...le-E174089.html

 

So, a converter *like*:
http://www.ebay.com/...er/272331182827

http://www.l-com.com...andard-b-female

would be needed.

 

Am I getting it right now? :unsure:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#15 Zoso

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:35 PM

i apologize for not being able to test this more. this was my friends laptop and i have returned it already. i ran vista recovery on it and added W7 for dual boot on it.

my guess is that maybe the voltmeter altered the timing somehow and that is what allowed it to boot from the WD or maybe it was just like a USB2.0 extension cord and that did it.

whatever it was, the WD USB HDD is mine and it has done this before so if it does this again I will know to try it with the voltmeter and a usb extension cord.

thanks for all the input from you folks on this!

#16 RoyM

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:22 AM

In order to measure voltage.
You must place a load across it, and then take your measurements.
"Advanced measurement techniques are not considered here".
Either measuring current or voltage drops or voltage directly will work.
Albeit, the load will be extremely small, from 1Meg on down.
Your voltmeter is most likely digital, what'd you pay for the voltmeter, $5-$10.???
Just remember, the usb 5V also has to drive the lcd display, and the measuring chip, so now the load just went up.
I haven't checked any specs, but your probably in the low mili-amp range. say 5-10 Ma
 
What always helps is to clean and maintain.
First, clean the USB male connectors with a white eraser, you will see them shine right up.
it only takes a couple of light swipes, making sure to clear all rubber dust when done.
 
Cleaning Female connectors are more difficult.
To clean them I will take a thinly sliced white eraser, and move it in and out to clean contacts.
Or a new toothbrush.
If you inspect your cleaning under magnification, you will see what is shiny and what isn't.
Sliding your connectors in and out of a USB connections a few times will also reveal vital clues.
 
Another thing to consider is the springiness or tension of the female connector.
Disclaimer: "The following advice is Not for Rookies".
If you find that the contacts have become weak and have lost their spring.
I will take a paperclip, put a very small, say 1/16th" 90 degree bend on the tip,
sometimes it helps to clean up the tip of the clip first, with sandpaper or such to resemble a dental probe.
And remove any burs that may damage your contacts.
What you are attempting, is to slide the bent part of the clip, underneath the
Springy contact, and then twist the clip, to bend the contacts up, 'do not twist too hard', 
or you will pop the contacts right out, also, try not to place your bends all in one place.
I find it best to place 3 bends at 1/3r, middle, 1/3rd.
While bending, use a toothpick to hold down other parts of the contact to get good bends.
Of course, all of the above should NOT be attempted with power applied.
This is usually a last ditch effort, because if you muck it up, your F'd.
 
FYI. outside 2 connectors of USB= 5v, inside 2 connectors of USB= Data.
 
Regards
RoyM





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