Jump to content











Photo
- - - - -

Windows 10 Creator Edition 1703 and Removable USB drives

windows 10 usb removable

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:09 PM

I thought I would start a new thread for this.

Akeo (aka Rufus author) has noticed that the new Creator Edition 1703 now treats Removable USB drives as if they are fixed disks,

If a Removable USB drive has more than one partition, then the other partitions can be assigned drive letters and are accessible in Explorer!

Also, a partition type of 21h or 17h no longer seems to be regarded as a hidden partition??

Also, you can format a 2nd partition using the Format pop-up on insertion and it will be given a drive letter in Explorer but will be shown as unformatted in diskmgmt.msc Disk Management console!

Its all very weird!


Edited by steve6375, 02 April 2017 - 10:06 AM.

  • devdevadev likes this

#2 genetix

genetix

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 132 posts
  •  
    Finland

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:16 PM

This is not correct information at least not for 1607/1703. He/She most of been using UAS media while testing as that would yeah work as a fixed drive, but regular USB is still not gonna work unless something like cfadisk or diskmod would be used. It is possible to read media from second partition of USB, but that support will stop working before setup can be completed.

 

I got here all 3 editions (1607, 1703 RTM and Creators Edition) under testing with several types of media as I've been building media builder for multi partitioned media for past few years.



#3 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:18 PM

I have tested 4 different USB flash drives with more than one partition on Win 10 x64 1703 and the 2nd partition is always seen and given a drive letter. Akeo has observed the same behaviour.

EDIT sorry - I mean 1703!!!


Edited by steve6375, 01 April 2017 - 07:21 PM.


#4 devdevadev

devdevadev

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 339 posts
  •  
    India

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:22 PM

Does 3rd Partition also show in File Explorer ?



#5 genetix

genetix

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 132 posts
  •  
    Finland

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

I have tested 4 different USB flash drives with more than one partition on Win 10 x64 1703 and the 2nd partition is always seen and given a drive letter. Akeo has observed the same behaviour.

EDIT sorry - I mean 1703!!!

 

Is this now the Creators Edition 1703/Build 15063 only. Since heck that means regular windows would start to understand multi partitioned removable media as well. Hmm, wonder what does the diskpart / diskmgmt.msc do when you try to format removable to multiple partitions.

 

-edit-

 

Gonna start testing it now. Perhaps I've missed something.



#6 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:28 PM

Yes I can have 3 partitions or even 4!



#7 devdevadev

devdevadev

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 339 posts
  •  
    India

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:31 PM

Now what is Partition Type for 'Hidden Partition' in 1703 ? Will it be possible to hide any partition with valid 'Hidden Partition Type' provided in 1703 ?



#8 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:50 PM

There seems to be some mismatch between the Windows Explorer and the pop-up format utility - and disk management console.

 

If I create a raw unformatted 2nd partition on a USB drive and then insert it into a 1703 Win10 PC, I get a Format pop-up. If I then use that pop-up dialog  to format it, it gets a drive letter. BUT Disk Management Console does not see the 2nd partition as formatted or show it's drive letter. Even if I remove and reconnect or rescan. Yet I can save file to the 2nd partition in Explorer!

 

However, if I use the Disk Management console to format the partition, it does register as formatted but it is not given a drive letter automatically. I can then assign a drive letter.



#9 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:54 PM

P.S. I think hidden type (2x or 1x hex) is working correctly after all - as long as the volume was never assigned a drive letter in the first place (which is normal Windows behaviour).

EDIT: but maybe not! See below...


Edited by steve6375, 02 April 2017 - 10:02 AM.


#10 genetix

genetix

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 132 posts
  •  
    Finland

Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:55 PM

Yes I can have 3 partitions or even 4!

 

As you probably know windows has pretty serious issue with 4 primary partitions.

 

So my suggestion would still be having 3 primary or 2+logical max.



#11 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13433 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 02 April 2017 - 07:43 AM

As you probably know windows has pretty serious issue with 4 primary partitions.
 
So my suggestion would still be having 3 primary or 2+logical max.

Which issues? :unsure:
And which version of Windows (still 10 only or also earlier)?

:duff:
Wonko

#12 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 02 April 2017 - 09:59 AM

I prepared a two-partition Removable UFD using Easeus Home Partition Master on a Win 10 1607 notebook

Partition 1   SIZE=4996.749MiB   Type: 0C FAT32LBA (2047GB max)  *ACTIVE*
START POS   = CYL:0 HD:32 SEC:33       END POS = CYL:637 HD:31 SEC:32
START (LBA) = 2,048 (00000800) SIZE (LBA) = 10,233,342 (009C25FE) [End=10,235,389]

 

Partition 2   SIZE=2627.82MiB   Type: 17       
START POS   = CYL:638 HD:0 SEC:1       END POS = CYL:972 HD:254 SEC:63
START (LBA) = 10,249,470 (009C64FE) SIZE (LBA) = 5,381,775 (00521E8F) [End=15,631,244]

 

 

 

I then plugged the UFD into my Win 10 1703 PC and it automatically assigned drive letters to both volumes.

So Explorer does not seem to respect the 'hidden' partition types either...

 

Diskpart seems a bit confused too!

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.15063]
(c) 2017 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpart
Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.15063.0
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: SSD500GB
DISKPART> lis dis
  Disk ###  Status         Size     Free     Dyn  Gpt
  --------  -------------  -------  -------  ---  ---
  Disk 0    Online         1863 GB      0 B
  Disk 1    Online         1863 GB  1024 KB
  Disk 2    Online          465 GB  1024 KB
  Disk 3    Online          465 GB      0 B
  Disk 4    Online         7640 MB    13 MB
DISKPART> sel dis 4
Disk 4 is now the selected disk.
DISKPART> det disk
Verbatim STORE N GO USB Device
Disk ID: C529F902
Type   : USB
Status : Online
Path   : 0
Target : 0
LUN ID : 0
Location Path : UNAVAILABLE
Current Read-only State : No
Read-only  : No
Boot Disk  : No
Pagefile Disk  : No
Hibernation File Disk  : No
Crashdump Disk  : No
Clustered Disk  : No
  Volume ###  Ltr  Label        Fs     Type        Size     Status     Info
  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------
  Volume 8     F   vb1          FAT32  Removable   4996 MB  Healthy
DISKPART> lis vol
  Volume ###  Ltr  Label        Fs     Type        Size     Status     Info
  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------
  Volume 0     H                       DVD-ROM         0 B  No Media
  Volume 1     G   HDD3_DATA_2  NTFS   Partition   1863 GB  Healthy
  Volume 2     E   HDD2_2TB_PT  NTFS   Partition    984 GB  Healthy
  Volume 3     L   HDD2_2TB_PT  NTFS   Partition    878 GB  Healthy
  Volume 4     D   HDD1_500GB   NTFS   Partition    465 GB  Healthy
  Volume 5         350MB Reser  NTFS   Partition    350 MB  Healthy    System
  Volume 6     C   HDD0 SSD 50  NTFS   Partition    464 GB  Healthy    Boot
  Volume 7                      NTFS   Partition    450 MB  Healthy    Hidden
  Volume 8     F   vb1          FAT32  Removable   4996 MB  Healthy
DISKPART>

No volume or drive letter is shown for the 2nd ptn, but it has a drive letter of J: in Explorer

 

If I change the ptn type to 07 then both volumes are listed by Diskpart as F: and J:


Edited by steve6375, 02 April 2017 - 10:34 AM.


#13 erwan.l

erwan.l

    Gold Member

  • Developer
  • 1914 posts
  • Location:Nantes - France
  •  
    France

Posted 02 April 2017 - 01:01 PM

Today,

We know that for a removable media, Windows will :

See the disk fine (obviously),

See the partitions fine (using windows, you can list all partitions although only the first one will be given a number=1, all others are given a number=0), 

But will mount a volume only for the first primary partition (the one with partition number=1).

 

Without adding additional software (such as cfdisk), only way to reach another partition is to rewrite the MBR to move the desired partition first in the partition table.

 

Now, we know it is not all about volumes but also about dosdevices.

Explorer may see a logical drive even if it is not a volume (i.e seen by disk mgmt). Imdisk is one example.

It would be interesting to compare the list of volumes versus the list of dosdevices - Although this might simply be a wrong track.



#14 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 16 April 2017 - 11:42 PM

With the new Windows update, it is now possible to have Windows To Go working from an MBR-partitioned flat-file Removable USB drive (no VHD).

We should also be able to have a FAT32+NTFS Removable drive for UEFI booting and maybe a GPT Removable drive too?



#15 devdevadev

devdevadev

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 339 posts
  •  
    India

Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:07 AM

https://msdn.microso...-bootable-drive

 

WinPE: Create USB Bootable drive

Prepare a USB drive, Windows 10, Version 1703

 
In Windows 10, Version 1703 you can create multiple partitions on a USB drive, allowing you to have a single USB key with a combination of FAT32 and and NTFS partitions. To work with USB drives that have multiple partitions, your technician PC has to be Windows 10, Version 1703, with the most recent version of the ADK installed.
 
MakeWinPEMedia formats the drive as FAT32 which has a filesize limit of 4GB, and custom images can easily exceed that limitation. Creating a USB drive with both FAT32 and NTFS partitions allows you to have a single physical drive that can boot to Windows PE as well store large custom images.
 
To prepare your USB drive, you'll create separate FAT32 and NTFS partitions. The following creates two partitions on a USB drive; one 2GB FAT32 partition, and one NTFS partition that uses the rest of the available space on the drive. You want to make sure that your USB drive has enough free space for the 2GB WinPE partiton and to hold large images on the NTFS partition:
      diskpart
      list disk
      select <disk number>
      clean
      rem === Create the Windows PE partition. ===
      create partition primary size=2000
      format quick fs=fat32 label="Windows PE"
      assign letter=P
      active
      rem === Create a data partition. ===
      create partition primary
      format fs=ntfs quick label="Other files"
      assign letter=O
      list vol
      exit

 

In above MS post.It's looking that MS is going to introduce recent Removable USB related changes in Win 10 Build 1703 as a feature *(not a bug) in future Build ?



#16 nguyentu

nguyentu

    Member

  • Members
  • 62 posts
  •  
    Vietnam

Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:40 AM

I'm using v1607, build 14393, I'm able to mount both partitions. But something in v1703 is unstable.


#17 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 4 weeks ago

Yes, Disk Management msc is pretty buggy, shows wrong partitions and also occasionally crashes too!

See http://rmprepusb.blo...ings-major.html

Also Explorer has issues - see last 'Weird' section of http://rmprepusb.blo...-hard-disk.html



#18 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13433 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 4 weeks ago

As a side/unrelated note, once software houses recruited beta-testers and often compensated them for the bug hunting and features/improvements suggestions with a free license for the finished product.

 

Now, the good MS guys provided Windows 10 for free in advance as a form of compensation to the users beta-testers that have to use it.

 

Somewhat backwards :w00t:, especially considering that in the good ol' times the beta-testers were volunteering whilst Windows 10 users are/were largely tricked into it, but all in all fair enough .... :whistling:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#19 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member

  • Developer
  • 6530 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers, programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 4 weeks ago

Yes, it is annoying that something like treating Removable drives differently (from Windows XP to Win 10 TH2) is regarded as an 'Update'!

The changes to the OS filesystem must have been substantial and it was obviously not tested at all before 'Release'.

Also, the change is not even mentioned by MS, so how are we supposed to test it and feedback, even when using the Developers advance versions? :angry:



#20 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13433 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 4 weeks ago

Also, the change is not even mentioned by MS, so how are we supposed to test it and feedback, even when using the Developers advance versions?  :angry:

Well, not really-really, devdevadev just posted how in an "obscure" page on MSDN it has been mentioned "in passing by":
https://msdn.microso...-bootable-drive

 

You need to be more attentive ;) and follow all MS published pages, it would be far too easy to put this kind of info inside a "proper" release note, they do however leave here and there some bread crumbs for the (possibly angry by now :whistling: )  birds.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#21 alacran

alacran

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 456 posts
  •  
    Mexico

Posted 4 weeks ago

Today I was testing Yumi to install CU on a partition of HDD, and latter when I pluged another USB unit this new way of treating removable drives made me think someting was wrong in my USB stick (this one was formated using RMPrepUSB long time ago).

 

I just inserted the USB and inmediatly OS was offering me to format it in order to have access to it. I removed it an pluged it again several times and same thing, untill in "My PC" (or equivalent) saw there was an unformated partition on USB stick (yes, the little one RMPrepUSB makes at the very end of stick), then I remembered this thread about this behavior.

 

I am agree with steve6375 this needs to be informed to the users in a better way.

 

I think a moderator should stick this thread

 

alacran



#22 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1693 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 4 weeks ago

I also see the same behaviour where the second small partiton is of type EF ( EFI system partition ). I do note that enumerating all volumes using win32 api shows all volumes:

 

Drive(0,Samsung SSD 960 PRO 2TB), size=1907 (Gb)
Drive index = 0, partition index = 1,Volume size = 1907 (Gb), Locked=0,(DriveF,F:,NTFS)
Drive(1,Samsung SSD 960 PRO 2TB), size=1907 (Gb)
Drive index = 1, partition index = 1,Volume size = 1907 (Gb), Locked=0,(DriveE,E:,NTFS)
Drive(2,NVMe INTEL SSDPEDMW01), size=1117 (Gb)
Drive index = 2, partition index = 1,Volume size = 300 (Mb), Locked=0,(Recovery,,NTFS)
Drive index = 2, partition index = 4,Volume size = 194 (Gb), Locked=0,(Win2016,,NTFS)
Drive index = 2, partition index = 5,Volume size = 194 (Gb), Locked=0,(Win10,C:,NTFS)
Drive index = 2, partition index = 6,Volume size = 450 (Mb), Locked=0,(,,NTFS)
Drive index = 2, partition index = 7,Volume size = 727 (Gb), Locked=0,(DriveD,D:,NTFS)
Drive(3,HGST HUS724040ALE640), size=3726 (Gb)
Drive index = 3, partition index = 2,Volume size = 3725 (Gb), Locked=0,(DriveG,G:,NTFS)
Drive(4,Envoy Pro SCSI Disk Device), size=447 (Gb)
Drive index = 4, partition index = 1,Volume size = 48 (Gb), Locked=0,(USB1,H:,FAT32)
Drive index = 4, partition index = 2,Volume size = 398 (Gb), Locked=0,(USB2,I:,NTFS)
Drive(5,Patriot Memory USB Device), size=235 (Gb)
Drive index = 5, partition index = 1,Volume size = 235 (Gb), Locked=0,(Win8.1SE,J:,NTFS)
Drive index = 5, partition index = 2,Volume size = 0 (Mb), Locked=0,(UEFI_NTFS,K:,FAT)

 

But diskmgmt does not show small volume K:. Have not seem any instability in diskmgmt.



#23 Wonko the Insane

Wonko the Insane

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 492 posts
  • Location:The Inside of the Asylum (gate is wide open)
  • Interests:Oh, so you hate me too? Well, join the club! There are weekly meetings at the corner of Fuck You St. and Kiss My Ass Blvd.

Posted 4 weeks ago

I would be very careful installing the Creators Update on top of an already existing 10. A friend was signed into a MS account on his laptop, installed this update, then after rebooting 10 would no longer accept the PIN/pass he's been using for months, effectively locking him out of the OS and taking hours to fix. Ive known about this issue for a long time, it's part of the reason why I only use local admin accounts.

#24 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1693 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 4 weeks ago

Upgraded 1 laptop / 1 desktop from 1607 to 1703 without problem. Each computer used a MS account.

 

Also upgraded my work laptop from 1607 to 1703. That's in the work domain. It upgraded without problem and maintained the domain logon.

 

Also have 1 MS surface pro and 4 VMs enrolled in Windows Insider Fast ring using MS account - all those upgrade between versions without problem.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: windows 10, usb, removable

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users