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Missing Recycle Bin - Windows 10


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#1 leniwiec

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:34 AM

Hello guys!

At first thanks for this application! I can't think of any Open Source alternative.

Good job!

 

I have one question, on Windows 7 I had enabled RAM disk ~2GB space, after removing files those been moved to recycle bin (which is fine). After installing Windows 10 my removed files are no longer moved to Recycle Bin. Is there any way to enable Recycle Bin for RAM disk drive on Windows 10?

 

Thanks in advance!



#2 v77

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 12:28 PM

Strangely, some people, including me, failed to have the Recycle Bin for imdisk volumes even on Windows 7...



#3 leniwiec

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 05:38 PM

@v77 I'll post the command I used to create RAM disk on Windows 7 later, maybe will help you.



#4 leniwiec

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 01:50 AM

@v77 Nvm... I'm using other (not open source) software on my Windows 7, maybe that's why I have working recycle bin. But if this is a case, it should be possible to implement this feature.



#5 IAmTheTrueMeaningOfCovfefe

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:47 AM

Maybe you can create a symbolic link to your real Recycle Bin? Just an idea.



#6 v77

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:55 AM

@v77 Nvm... I'm using other (not open source) software on my Windows 7, maybe that's why I have working recycle bin. But if this is a case, it should be possible to implement this feature.

 

There is nothing documented about that.
However, we can see in the registry that, at least starting from Vista, the Recycle Bin relies on volume GUIDs.
Olof speaks of that in an old message:
http://reboot.pro/to...guid#entry13940

Out of curiosity, with what he says in this message, I took a look in the source of TrueCrypt, which allows the creation of a Recycle Bin in its volumes, and indeed, it does not look simple...

So you should not expect such a feature from imdisk, at least in a near future.



#7 Olof Lagerkvist

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 01:10 PM

There are several known compatibility problems similar to this using ImDisk on modern Windows versions. Other things reported in the latest are that Java applications can no longer run with full trust because JRT cannot detect that the ImDisk volume is a local filesystem. Also database engines that cannot detect sector sizes for optimization in the way they expect and lots of other things. It would be rather complex and risky to implement all features needed to fully support such things and it also tends to mean lots of maintenance for each new Windows versions.

 

My goal is therefore to keep ImDisk "simple and stupid" with very little overhead, compatible with very old Windows versions and with basic features when running on modern versions. After all, we have Arsenal Image Mounter for cases when full disk emulation with better compatibility is a requirement while ImDisk is imho very useful for analyze, recovery, forensics etc and many similar cases where you just want to mount a simple filesystem image file.


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#8 leniwiec

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:04 AM

There are several known compatibility problems similar to this using ImDisk on modern Windows versions. Other things reported in the latest are that Java applications can no longer run with full trust because JRT cannot detect that the ImDisk volume is a local filesystem. Also database engines that cannot detect sector sizes for optimization in the way they expect and lots of other things. It would be rather complex and risky to implement all features needed to fully support such things and it also tends to mean lots of maintenance for each new Windows versions.

 

My goal is therefore to keep ImDisk "simple and stupid" with very little overhead, compatible with very old Windows versions and with basic features when running on modern versions. After all, we have Arsenal Image Mounter for cases when full disk emulation with better compatibility is a requirement while ImDisk is imho very useful for analyze, recovery, forensics etc and many similar cases where you just want to mount a simple filesystem image file.

I can clearly understand your point in there and I guess you are right. I think we don't really need many many options in there. But when some software is not working because ImDisk is missing feature I think it should be added. I'm not really sure myself how much work it'll take and how hard it is to implement. For now I had to use *free* alternative software, but I'll be monitoring status of ImDisk. We all love OpenSource software after all... :-)



#9 v77

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 12:27 PM

But when some software is not working because ImDisk is missing feature I think it should be added.

 

A software should not assume that a volume necessarily belongs to the mount manager.
Another typical example: softwares that assume that you have a swap file. This is a fault, and it's not up to the users or other developers to fix these errors.

Even for this topic, it's a Microsoft's fault. Starting from Vista, they have choosen to ignore simple volumes for the Recycle Bin.
Microsoft recommends to check that a feature exists instead of assuming that it exists on a given version of the system. We can see here that they don't follow their own advice.



#10 leniwiec

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:02 PM

A software should not assume that a volume necessarily belongs to the mount manager.
Another typical example: softwares that assume that you have a swap file. This is a fault, and it's not up to the users or other developers to fix these errors.

Even for this topic, it's a Microsoft's fault. Starting from Vista, they have choosen to ignore simple volumes for the Recycle Bin.
Microsoft recommends to check that a feature exists instead of assuming that it exists on a given version of the system. We can see here that they don't follow their own advice.

Got it but you see... it's almost impossible to get Microsoft to fix own errors or even talk like I'm doing with you guys, they are not listening to commoners. But it's possible to add support to that in open source software.

Anyway I'm fine with any option and just wanted to mention that 'weird' problem in mean time I got more informations about it thanks for that :-)



#11 Olof Lagerkvist

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:00 PM

I can clearly understand your point in there and I guess you are right. I think we don't really need many many options in there. But when some software is not working because ImDisk is missing feature I think it should be added. I'm not really sure myself how much work it'll take and how hard it is to implement. For now I had to use *free* alternative software, but I'll be monitoring status of ImDisk. We all love OpenSource software after all... :-)

 

It would require a rather major redesign or implementation of quite a lot of different functions. This is why we started the Arsenal Image Mounter project in the first place, because trying to implement all these kinds of features in ImDisk would require lots of work, maintenance between Windows versions and clear risks of breaking compatibility with older Windows versions and existing use cases. Because Arsenal Image Mounter is a SCSI miniport most such things are handled automatically by the default disk drivers in Windows so it is nothing that I need to care about really. I must say that design choice was absolutely right. To start implementing such features in ImDisk now would in my opinion be rather pointless because there are alternatives available.

 

Arsenal Image Mounter is also open source, it is available on Github but it has a little bit different licensing for integration in commercial software. But essentially a similar idea after all.

 

Edit: Forgot link to Arsenal Image Mounter: https://github.com/A...l-Image-Mounter

Description of directory structure and where to find certain components such as command line tools etc: https://github.com/A...y_structure.txt






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