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Replace the motherboard


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#1 cjm51213

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:26 PM

Hi Folks,

 

This is an interesting problem.

 

I have a Dell Dimension C521, which I have been using for a server for years. It has worked well. It uses an AMD64 processor. Recently I acquired a Dell Optiplex 960, which is a much beefier machine and uses an intel 64.  I want to move the system from the Dimension to the Optiplex. Both are ACPI processors. I had a spare disk so I installed Windows Server 2008R2 on the Optiplex 960, so I have a model bootable system.

 

I tried simply moving the disk from the Dimension to the Optiplex, and it wouldn't boot. It failed at the "C Microsoft Corporation" progress bar almost immediately, which is boot phase two. I reviewed the appropriate ControlSets and I could see that there were differences in which drivers were started and when. In particular, the "moved" disk was not booting a few early ones that the "installed" system was. So, I changed "start" to 0 on them with pretty good success.

 

So, now I have a "moved" disk that gets farther but not to a running Windows system. It boots to a movable curser, but hangs after that. It also will not boot to "Safe Mode", so I'm still having a problem getting minimal Windows started. I suspect now, that there are drivers being loaded that should NOT be loaded and they are interfering.

 

So, Here's an idea. What if I exported "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlSet...\services" from the "installed" disk and used that to replace the same key sub-tree on the "moved" disk? That might work.

 

There's a problem. There's always a problem... I find no way on god's green earth to disable "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlSet...\services" on the moved disk. I need to be sure that I will not have artifacts hanging around from the Dimension, when I want the key subtree to be defined from the Optiplex. "Disable" in this context means "rename" or "delete".

 

So, anybody with experience moving hardware, meaning experience replacing motherboards with non-identical units?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Chris.



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:44 AM

Well, that is a "generic" issue with moving a Windows NT system from one hardware to another.

The old way (up to XP/2003) was to remove (uninstall) all "particular" drivers from the old hardware, move the disk to the new one, start in a "half-working" mode and then install the new drivers, see this as an example:

http://www.michaelst.../moving_xp.html

Then (and it also applies to XP) the Sysprep was used, see an example here (actually this is an evolution, Offline Sysprep):
http://www.911cd.net...hp?showforum=43

(the limitation is/was that the "standard" procedure involved that the "old" motherboard was functional and did not apply easily to the case where you were replacing a dead motherboard)

 

Since NT 6 the procedure has become easier and you use Sysprep/generalize, which normally works fine, see:
http://www.sevenforu...w-computer.html

http://reboot.pro/to...igration-tools/

 

What applies to 7 should apply to 2008R2 without issues BUT there are known problems if you have a RAID setup, and of course the success of the procedure has some degree of uncertain results, depending mostly from the amount of differences between the new and the old hardware, the actual drivers involved, etc. so you NEED to have a (ideally "forensic sound") image of the system before attempting to modify the hard disk contents.

 

Also there might be issues with the SID of the machine (assuming that the thingy is used in a domain):
http://www.rayheffer...no-more-newsid/

 

There is also the possibility that BMR (Bare Metal Recovery) actually works (even if MS says it doesn't - as a matter of fact the unwritten part is that it may work but is not guaranteed to ):

https://support.micr...en-us/kb/249694

 

There are third party Commercial utilities intended for this kind of migration of course, but they are usually not exactly "cheap" and some are not as reliable as they should be.

 

Anyway the "generic" procedure is:

1) backup/copy (better clone in a "forensic sound manner) the disk

2) boot on old hardware and uninstall any non MS driver, stop and set to manual start all non-vital service (or sysprep/generalize)

3) move the disk to new hardware and reinstall new drivers for it, then reset the services start as needed

 

:duff:

Wonko



#3 cdob

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:26 AM

It boots to a movable curser, but hangs after that.

Adjust offline registry:
https://support.micr...en-nz/kb/249321

Did you used c:\windows previously? Partiton drive letter may have changed. rename the new partition at the new disk.
Open offline registry, \windows\system32\config\system,
Recognice the new disk letter, then rename the new one to c:
Rename MountedDevices\DosDevices\?: to MountedDevices\DosDevices\C:

#4 cjm51213

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 08:23 PM

Hi Wanko,

 

I took your advice and I followed: http://www.sevenforu...w-computer.html

 

It seemed to work well, meaning I saw no reason for dismay. After sysprep generalized my installation, I re-booted. I saw the hallmarks of success, but now I am stuck in a loop, so I need some advice how to diagnose this.

 

After a power cycle, the message "Setup is starting services" appears and shortly afterward, I get an error window saying, "Windows could not complete the installation. To install Windows on the computer, restart the installation." This has looped for half a dozen times, so far. Safe Mode is not immune to his loop.

 

I expect "Enable Boot Logging" may help me...

 

Either there is a bad actor that I need to remove, or (more likely) a necessary component that I need to provide. This is just a matter of messing with HKLM/ControlSet.../services/start for the various services.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Chris.



#5 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 07:16 AM

Difficult to say :(, usually a "totally missing" driver or service should not cause that kind of issue (once excluded the very "basic" ones such as disk, video, keyboard, etc.) at the most one or more devices/subsystem connected won't work (with an exclamation mark in Device Manager).
I find it more likely that there is an installed (and attempting to start) driver or service that has some form of dependency on either "real" hardware (that is not there on the new motherboard) or to a windows subsystem/component (that has been removed by the "generalize" pass).
What is "troubling" is that Safe Mode is also not working, though this can be explained by the non-completed install.
It is also possible (the good MS guys have been - let's say a tad bit less attentive than before - with Windows Update) *some update* that creates an issue with the generalize pass in sysprep.

You could *try* using BlackViper's as a reference:
http://www.blackviper.com/
http://www.blackvipe...configurations/
http://www.blackvipe...stry-file-tool/

You mean the issue is right after th step in image 1.13 here:
http://www.blackvipe...-install-guide/
right?

You might need a PE 3.x (or connecting the hard disk to another computer running Windows 7 and edit the Registry offline, either by mounting the relevant hive or using the Offline Registry editor (if you want to script it):
http://reboot.pro/to...fline-registry/

Maybe the boot log will contain some hint, but I don't know if the services part is logged in it. :unsure:

:duff:
Wonko

#6 Agent47

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:43 AM

 

 

After a power cycle, the message "Setup is starting services" appears and shortly afterward, I get an error window saying, "Windows could not complete the installation. To install Windows on the computer, restart the installation." This has looped for half a dozen times, so far. Safe Mode is not immune to his loop.

 

 

This issue can happen if you run sysprep with the option "Generalize" and "OOBE" directly without entering in to "Audit" mode first. I learned this the hard way - when i encountered this same issue, i restored the system image (i have the good habit of creating system backups when doing something i am not familiar with) and tried again but this time after booting the system to "Audit" mode first. Everything worked as it's supposed to be.



#7 cjm51213

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:52 PM

Hi Agent,

 

If I understand this correctly, after I restore my backup to a new disk, and before I sysprep/oobe, I need to boot to sysprep/audit. I'm not sure what I need to do while in audit mode, and it sounds like all I need to do is run sysprep/oobe. Am I understanding the process?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Chris.



#8 Agent47

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:47 PM

Hi

 

You don't need to do anything special in "Audit" mode. First run "Sysprep" with "Generalize" (may not be necessary but won't hurt ) + "Audit Mode" + Reboot option. Once the system successfully booted in to "Audit" mode, rerun "Sysprep" with "Generalize + OOBE + Shutdown" option. Unplug the HDD and connect it to the new mobo and test.

 

This is what usually works for me.



#9 cjm51213

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:37 PM

Hi Folks,

 

This turned out to be nearly trivial. But I learned a ton in the process.

 

I am moving from a Dell Dimension with AMD processor to a Dell Optiplex with an Intel processor. I call that disk "restored". I did an installation on the Optiplex so I would have a reference installation. I call the disk "installed".

 

I learned that there were drivers on "installed" that started at start level 0, which were also on "restored" but which were starting at level 2. In my case "atapi", mshaci", and "pciide" all needed to be changed. These can be changed in the HKLM\System\ControlSet... \Services directory. If the system is running, then it is CurrentControlSet, but if not then you need to look at HKLM\System\select to determine which ControlSet needs to be updated.

 

I also could see on the Device Manager that there were hardware specific "System Devices", and I simply uninstalled them. These were four drivers that were AMD something or an other, and nVidia.

 

At this point I was ready to move this disk, but it was not clear to me that a graceful shutdown wouldn't undo all my careful scheming, so I simply unplugged it. I move to the new machine and Voila! it worked!

 

I'd be interested to know if I could uninstall the drivers I found in the Device Manager through entries in the registry, or more precisely since it is a foregone conclusion that this can be done, how do I do it? Given this step, this migration can be done on a non-bootable disk because Windows Recovery Environment permits access to the registry of a non-bootable system. It is a little tricky because you have to find and load the SYSTEM hive for the TARGET system and not confuse yourself with the running system, which is the Windows Recovery Environment, but that SYSTEM hive will be in \Windows\System32\config, and PROBABLY the D:\ disk, but your may see it differently.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Chris.



#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 11:13 AM

Well, you can use the Offline Registry Editor for that (JFYI):
http://reboot.pro/to...fline-registry/

 

The PCIide/atapi etc. is more or less a known fact since 2K/XP/PE 1.x for which at the time fixide and fixsata were made (still JFYI):
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=13642

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=20246

It should give you a good base/inspiration if you want to automate the procedure.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#11 cjm51213

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 01:57 PM

I discovered how to break the loop I reported in post #4 which I am posting here against the possibility that I may need it some day.

 

From https://social.techn...=w7itproinstall

Use shift f10 to open a command window, then type regedit to open the registry editor.
Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\Sysprep\Specialize
Delete the entry with the following value C:\Windows\system32\capisp.dll,CryptoSysPrep_Specialize
Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup
Decrease SetupPhase by 1

(These next steps may be optional, I just changed a bunch of values in hopes it would work)

Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\Status\SysprepStatus
Decrease Cleanupstate and Generalization state by 1

What this does is set the installation state back a step, and then it skips the CryptoSysPrep_Specialize. The system I tried it on works great so I don't think the step does anything critical.
 



#12 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 10:42 AM

I discovered how to break the loop I reported in post #4 which I am posting here against the possibility that I may need it some day.

 

God finding :).

 

:duff:

Wonko






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