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i'm seeing massive amounts of mis-information here about x64 and x86


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#1 stayboogy

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:21 AM

it's quite obvious that x86 cpus cannot run x64 programs, x64 windows, or x64 PE's--this is simply understood by most people,

 

however,

 

when it comes to PE, with regards to x64 windows, it DOES NOT mean you must use an x64 PE.

 

an x86 PE will work for imaging, editing, cleaning, installing, etc an x64 windows install.  i know because i've been doing it for years and years and still do it to this day.  even M$ suggests using an x86 PE for everything over x64.

 

 

where the limitations exist is only in HOW / WHERE you are booting your PE from on an x64 system.

 

if your pc is uefi and you don't want to boot csm, and it is running x64 uefi windows, then, if you want to boot PE from your hdd, this is the only time you MUST use an x64 PE image, because x64 uefi bootloader will not boot an x86 image from the hdd where the bcd menu boots windows--it will not work and always give an error.

 

if your pc is uefi and it is running x64 uefi windows, and you don't require running PE from hdd, then, you DON'T HAVE TO use an x64 PE image but instead you can boot an x86 PE from another device, such as a cd/dvd or usb drive--as long as the proper bios settings are activated to boot from these devices which will vary in every case but is ALWAYS possible if the hardware exists

 

if your pc is uefi, but you are running x64 windows through a csm configuration, then you can boot either an x86 or x64 image from your hdd--you DO NOT HAVE TO use an x64 image.  in fact, if your x64 configuration is csm only, you can boot either x86 or x64 from hdd without error.  in this case it does not matter either way.

 

 

i do all my recovery work from an x86 csm PE image of windows 10--i use it exclusively on both x64 and x86 systems and can do all the same tasks without limitations on devices with both uefi and csm configurations. 

 

the reason i post this is because in five different threads so far in this section i've read posts by multiple members stating that an x64 system must use an x64 image which has never been true, and is ONLY true with regards to uefi windows and booting the pe from the same hdd as the windows install.


Edited by stayboogy, 11 May 2016 - 02:23 AM.


#2 stayboogy

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:57 AM

some good reading here:

 

https://msdn.microso...p/uefi-firmware

 

although, you can't believe it all since i proved them wrong about booting uefi without gpt, but a good place to start nonetheless.

 

 

the most likely reason that WoW support is not found in x64 PEs built with the ADK is because an x64 PE is never required.



#3 Agent47

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 09:11 AM

 

 

when it comes to PE, with regards to x64 windows, it DOES NOT mean you must use an x64 PE.

 

I agree to that. I am also using a x86 based WinPE 3.1 image for most of my work. However there is at least one advantage in using a x64 WinPE to repair an offline x64 Windows - you can run offline SFC to fix some file corruptions which can't be fixed online/prevent OS from booting. Other than that a x86 PE can be used for pretty much everything else.



#4 Tripredacus

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 08:17 PM

I use WinPE x64 for everything. I'm not sure if the reasoning is still valid, but at one point it was only x64 that could successfully deploy a Windows 7 of x86 or x64. It had to do with the software for creating the recovery partition. The 32bit binary would not work/properly for 64bit OS. It may also had to do with UEFI implementation, I can't be certain. Also I do not know if it still exists as a hard requirement with Windows 10 or not. I have not bothered to test.

So I use x64 WinPE to deploy all OSes. Win7-10 x86, x64, Vista, XP and DOS images.

#5 spleenharvester

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 10:02 PM

Also DISM does not appear to work properly if the PE image and target OS are not architecture-matched. With any attempt to view packages of an x86 target on x64 or vice versa you just get some weird error, but when matched the command works fine. I have replicated this many times.


Edited by spleenharvester, 11 May 2016 - 10:03 PM.


#6 stayboogy

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 01:52 AM

Also DISM does not appear to work properly if the PE image and target OS are not architecture-matched. With any attempt to view packages of an x86 target on x64 or vice versa you just get some weird error, but when matched the command works fine. I have replicated this many times.

 

must be something with your image because i deploy and image x64 and x86 windows oses with dism from x86 PE all the time and never have an error...


Edited by stayboogy, 12 May 2016 - 02:24 AM.


#7 Zoso_The_Internet_Fucktard

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 09:29 PM

So, as an example, if I'm dualbooting 10 and 7, both on GPT partitioning with an EFI partition and installed UEFI boot files, but 7 needs CSM enabled in BIOS to boot successfully, then am I booting in UEFI mode, or in legacy/CSM mode, or both? This example is no longer the case, but previously it was, I'm now booting both OSes on MBR.

 

I'm of the understanding that CSM is just legacy emulation rather than actual legacy, only an old(er) PC with BIOS only and no UEFI firmware, will boot OSes in true legacy mode. Correct? How can one boot a Windows with UEFI boot files but it is still somehow running in legacy compatibility mode because CSM is enabled?



#8 stayboogy

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:31 PM

So, as an example, if I'm dualbooting 10 and 7, both on GPT partitioning with an EFI partition and installed UEFI boot files, but 7 needs CSM enabled in BIOS to boot successfully, then am I booting in UEFI mode, or in legacy/CSM mode, or both? This example is no longer the case, but previously it was, I'm now booting both OSes on MBR.

 

I'm of the understanding that CSM is just legacy emulation rather than actual legacy, only an old(er) PC with BIOS only and no UEFI firmware, will boot OSes in true legacy mode. Correct? How can one boot a Windows with UEFI boot files but it is still somehow running in legacy compatibility mode because CSM is enabled?

 

did you post this in the right thread???

 

if you boot windows with uefi boot files, then it is booted in uefi mode; as far as i know and in everything i've tried, you cannot boot windows in csm mode using uefi boot files because in the bcd when the boot file is changed to winload.exe instead of winload.efi you will get a black screen boot error.  in order to boot windows in csm mode when it is setup with uefi, you must use a different device with nt60 bootsector that chainloads bootmgr which then loads winload.exe

 

i still think your response above belongs to your other thread and not here discussing x64 and x86 compatibility in PE


Edited by stayboogy, 12 May 2016 - 10:32 PM.


#9 Zoso_The_Internet_Fucktard

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:43 PM

Perhaps in the wrong thread, but the fact remains that I had 10 and 7 in booting in UEFI mode on GPT with CSM enabled. I'm not mistaken, I know exactly what I did, and that was the result. I can replicate it once again by formatting my drive, creating GPT partition table with a FAT32 EFI partition, and 2 NTFS partitions for each OS. Installing with WAIK tools then booting while CSM is on results in success and no BSODs. was simply asking some questions to get clarification. I had no intention of starting a new thread topic, so I posted here in response to certain portions of your post, not considering the PE bit.



#10 Tripredacus

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:10 PM

CSM is not implemented the same across all manufacturers, so we cannot use it as a generic term. For example, if you have CSM enabled on an Asus desktopboard, you can set it for UEFI only, Legacy or Both. And sometimes instead of both it says UEFI first.




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