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what is highest spec BIOS notebook? (no UEFI)

bios not uefi

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#1 Zoso

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:34 PM

hi all,

does anyone know or know where to find what the highest spec BIOS only (no UEFI) hardware was?

everything is UEFI now, correct? when exactly did that happen? I havnt been keeping up and looking for a new notebook but do not want UEFI.

please dont get off topic (UEFI) and try to convince me otherwise.


thanks

#2 alacran

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:01 AM

Hi Zoso, Latest Bios spec is 10.1.4.9, not to make you cry but no new PC's (including Notebooks) in the world has the good old Bios anymore.

 

UEFI started with Win8 so it's long time ago, but if you can disable SecureBoot and enable CSM Boot, and make yor HDD, Bios (MBR) partitioned disk, your equipment is going to work as usuall (Bios good old mode), you do not need GPT partitioned disks unless your HDD is biger than 2 TB. You can install this way any OS (up to 10), as far as your equipment has drivers for it.

 

Remember in Bios partitioned disks you can have only 4 Primary partitions or a maximum of 3 Primary partition and an extended partition with a bunch of Logical Partitions in it, (so I don't see the need for GPT when disks are 2 TB or less)

 

This is best way to go if you want grub4dos working properly to boot rescue and backup tools as I do on all my PC's, (booting from Isos file located in a partition on my HDD) .

 

alacran



#3 Zoso

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:52 AM

thanks alacran,

i need to clarify this some. what i meant by new is, new to me but not brand new. i knew that BIOS only systems were no longer available as brand new, thats why i started this thread, i just overlooked posting that detail.

i should also broaden a bit by including all systems and not limit to laptops and notebooks since at some point I will probably need another desktop type system.

what Im trying to find out is what were the highest spec systems before UEFI came along? but also the most functional BIOS too, as in which versions had the most functionality out of the box (OEM) without custom BIOS Mods?

I really dont even know where to start looking for these details except to look at the date that W8 became available and then look at the hardware specs of the systems made around that time. then, compare the BIOSs that were available on them, maybe in a virtual environment as I think Ive read that was possible somewhere.

anyone know what the highest RAM capability and processors were for the last BIOS systems off hand?

thanks

#4 alacran

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 01:50 AM

I have and old Gateway SX2851 (Build date 2011, on a sticker) it came with Win7x64 on it, Pentium Dual Core G6950 2.8 GHZ Socket 1056 it has 4 GB Ram DDR3 1333 GHZ running at 1066 Mhz, (Max. memory this CPU can handle is 16 GB, SPD according to CPU installed) dual chanell (4 slots), HD video on CPU, VGA and HDMI outputs, 11 USB 2.0 ports (6 back and 5 front), multicard reader, 1 TB HDD Sata 3.

 

CPU specs: http://ark.intel.com...-Cache-2_80-GHz

This MB can use any 32 nm CPU (Clarkdale) socket 1156 as I3 or I5.

 

Clarkdale series CPU's: http://www.anandtech...60-670-reviewed

I think it is one of the latest Bios MB before Win8. and UEFI, Because my MB Asus socket 1155 (just next generation socket) is UEFI.

alacran



#5 Rootman

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:01 PM

Boy, what you are asking is awfully broad, especially with so many manufacturers.  You're going to have to narrow it down a lot to a specific brand, even then answers will vary with the line.

 

Any computer that is available with a 32 bit OS is guaranteed to have a CSM compatible BIOS.  You cannot EFI boot a 32 bit OS on a 64 bit CPU, and even then there are a few rare exceptions.  



#6 Zoso

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 02:09 AM

alacran, how did you determine that the latest BIOS spec is 10.1.4.9?

Rootman, seems it wont be easy to figure. im definitely not interested in any system that has EFI firmware, CSM or otherwise. at least, not at this time.

what i am interested in is what the most advanced systems (mobos & laptop/notebooks) that were exclusively BIOS only.

it may be easier to narrow it down by determining the highest spec processor that was used on the last BIOS system, and from that, find out what systems used it, then which of those were BIOS only.

I'll do some digging around on the net and see what I can come up with. the Pentium Dual Core G6950 2.8 GHZ Socket 1056 that alacran mentions may be it?

if anyone here has any other ideas, i am interested in them.

thanks


edit: dual bios? want aware of this, seems interesting: http://www.gigabyte....26_dualbios.htm

#7 alacran

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:25 AM

Zoso, on 27 Apr 2016 - 9:09 PM, said:

alacran, how did you determine that the latest BIOS spec is 10.1.4.9?

edit: dual bios? want aware of this, seems interesting: http://www.gigabyte....26_dualbios.htm

If you run Dism++ and open Help/About you will see it. http://dismfile.sour....net/Dism .zip

About Gigabyte Dual Bios it is only a second copy of Bios Rom (Old Bios in oldest versions, and UEFI in recent versions, but not both kind) just in case of failure (they have this feature since a very long time).

I am almost sure any Clarkdale series CPU's (they are socket 1156) MB will be Bios, maybe the first and oldest ChipSets in MB's socket 1155 are Bios, start looking here. But I do not see the point in your quest, as far as you can disable SecureBoot and enable CSM (see post #2), your PC is going to boot just like always did in Good Old Bios.

SecureBoot is just BS, it is an effort to prevent the not advanced users to install another OS or a second boot option and nothing more (later GNU-Linux complain about this and they got MS verified Boot Managers in order to boot Linux flavors).

alacran

#8 Zoso

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:42 AM

If you run Dism++ and open Help/About you will see it. http://dismfile.sour....net/Dism .zip


thanks, will check it out.


(Old Bios at the first versions, and UEFI in actual versions, but not both kind)


first versions i understand but by "actual versions" are you meaning latest versions? also not sure what you mean by "but not both kinds"


thanks

#9 alacran

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 04:07 AM

I mean you will have a copy of Bios ROM (an UEFI one if your Bios is UEFI as actually they are), or a Good Old Bios if that is the case (old MB's), but that's all, you can not have both kind of Bios, just one or the other.

 

I edited last post trying to make it clear.



#10 cdob

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 04:18 AM

UEFI is used often at Core I first or second gentation
UEFI usage different at different manufacturer and product line.

A HP EliteBook cipset 8440p, chipset QM57, uses UEFI.

What is UEFI and when was it introduced on Lenovo systems?
https://forums.lenov...b/article-id/22

A T410/T510/X201/W510/ QM57 uses BIOS. Later machines uses UEFI
A W510 with a quad core CPU offers 4 RAM sockets, each 8 GB. 32 GB RAM works.

#11 IAmTheTrueMeaningOfCovfefe

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 06:29 PM

Go for a high-end Sager/Clevo model (notebook) that was released during the period that 7 was still the main consumer-oriented Windows OS. I can't be more specific.

For desktops I have no idea, I have no use for one since I'm mostly on-the-go.

#12 sbaeder

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 11:05 PM

as others have said - kind of pointless to worry about it, since 1) anything you find will be really OLD (2011 or older), and 2) even the UEFI ones have a way to go back to a pretty plain vanilla "bios" mode (CSM).  So WHY do you care?  That might be an interesting discussion.



#13 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 10:17 AM

... and 2) even the UEFI ones have a way to go back to a pretty plain vanilla "bios" mode (CSM). 

Well, particularly in the case of notebooks, there may be (actually there are ;)) some that have NO CSM and are "pure UEFI", example:

http://forums.toshib...N-7/td-p/652638

 

Though the large majority of UEFI implementations do have CSM, it is not "given".

 

:duff:

Wonko



#14 Zoso

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:32 AM

A T410/T510/X201/W510/ QM57 uses BIOS. Later machines uses UEFI
A W510 with a quad core CPU offers 4 RAM sockets, each 8 GB. 32 GB RAM works.


very helpful thanks.

the discussion in the link Wonko shared describes one specific situation of why I am trying to identify the "cut off" point in the hardware change from BIOS to EFI.

I have other reasons aswell but that would certainly derail this topic and thats also why I request not going that direction.

Im not in a rush to go out and find new used hardware though, the hardware i currently use is working fine, its old but im not a gamer however I know I will need to replace it at some point so thats why I started this topic.

it would be nice to have a list of hardware that indicates the "last of the Mohicans", I was actually hoping someone else would have done that by now.


if for nothing other than a collectors standpoint. not unlike a list of the last carbureted automobiles before all the manufacturers went to fuel injection LOL

carburetors still have some advantages over F.I. too

#15 Tripredacus

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 09:14 PM

Regarding Intel Desktop boards, with exception to Embedded platforms, the changeover to UEFI firmware was during the 6 series chipset time period. It comes down to AA numbers/board rev and/or shipped BIOS versions and it is possible to find a board of the same model, 1 with a UEFI and 1 with a BIOS. Fortunately, Intel had coincided their switch to UEFI with their support for 3rd gen Core I processors.
So, we can use this list to determine which boards had and did not have UEFI firmware:
http://www.intel.com.../000005859.html
However, it is unknown what the exact adoption rate was for this changeover. I mean, we cannot say for sure if a specific board has a UEFI on it.
Here is an example. From the above list, we can surmise that the DH61CR has a UEFI on rev 207 or later. BUT it is difficult to determine if there is a UEFI or not because these were the first boards to have it. Reasons for the identity problems are:
- They do not always have UEFI boot option as a setting
- expected ACPI tables may not all exist (although this happens on current UEFI systems due to other reasons)
There is another way to determine the board's firmware, but may be difficult. In the transition period, Intel had to release a new ITK software. This software was required for BIOS modification on the later rev (UEFI) 6 series boards, as well as 7 series boards. You could not modify a "BIOS" with the new version, nor could you modify a "UEFI" with the old version.

We can be certain that Intel's 7 series chipset desktop boards were UEFI, were first to have UEFI boot option and also UEFI boot option for LAN. Also, some board rev and BIOS version in 7 series (and first NUCs) were able to support x86 and x64 (WinPE or Win8) UEFI boot on the same system, as opposed to nowadays where the firmware locks to a certain architecture.

I believe that there was also a transition period in the ODM sector, so that it was possible to find Intel 7 series chipset on OEM/ODM boards with a BIOS.

MSI was slow to switch to UEFI firmware, and they released some boards with a BIOS and GPT boot emulation. These boards will be advertised as having "2.2TB Infinity" feature.

For notebooks, I have some old info.
- Compal PBL00,01,10,11,20 and 21 had UEFI firmware but did not support UEFI boot of any sort.
- Compal QAL30,31,50,51 were full UEFI for x64 boot.
- Clevo W25AES, W150ER, W170ER has UEFI but did not support UEFI boot for Win7x64, Win7 x86 did not always boot on it in MBR/Legacy Mode! Win8 was not tested at release.
- Gammatech S15C and S12C2 notebooks were the last with a BIOS from that company.

Now then there were embedded boards. This type is small form factor, often without fan. Most of this type had Atom CPU or were SOC, sometimes x86 arch, low power thingies. Intel had (at least) 2 of these active during their intial UEFI era of 7 series boards: the D2700MUD, D525MW perhaps another. It was also common to find boards from other manufacturers that had a BIOS, manufactured by companies like ECS, Habey, Jetway, Zotac, etc from 2011-2012.




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