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Windows 7 gets new updates to spy as much as Windows 10


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#51 erwan.l

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:58 PM

v77 : does winnt4 or 2000 has xps "printer" , fax printer are out dated they were invented by modem makers before 2000...by now no one has it anymore ...does ebay use fax ?

 

I support a huge amount of users who are using both faxes AND the xps printer on a daily basis.

Take their faxes away and they will rip your harms off :)


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#52 RedRamIH

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 01:49 AM

This is starting to make Windows Vista look good!!

(Actually, with SP2 and all the updates installed, Vista works pretty good...)



#53 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 03:32 AM

The hosts file is definitely not a pseudo firewall nor a safe way to block connections.
 
try to edit it...beside windows [that observes some files or registry keys [started with nt4] ]  antivirus also has an eye on it...why ?
if you use it well , you can block or accelerate the name-resolution-ip...
 
 
I support a huge amount of users who are using both faxes AND the xps printer on a daily basis.
 
politic spoiler...for my french friend
 
france gov is only a bunch of xxxxx , with chirac and vge , in 1974 , started the debt ...now we are at one year of gdp..., the politic made from this time , is now making its poisonous fruits : if you look at those that "rules france" : a bunch of immigrants ...sarkozy or valss are french only at 18 years old...what is the "ministre" of education or labour nominated today : 2 girls from algeria or maroc ...the  "ministre" of culture is a boat-people refugee that is an engineer...just to name few , like fabius that is a jewish like sarko , that killed a greenpace member in new zealand using a brother of segolene17% royal [ one of the ass of hollandouille ] and thousands of french with aids contamined blood...he was not comdemned and 30 years later is back as a "ministre" of foreign affair...that only works for "his real country" usrahell , hollande also...by selling rafale to the egypt dictator or bombing syria and president of this country also....
 
to end drawing what a fxxk is our france : the gov budget is made with 150 billions of taxes , plus 80-100 billions of debts...one year and a half per year...being in the french gov is a playboy job...those kind of job that a sarko or one of his famous ancestor : stavisky , can not resist to get...
i wrote the above to explain that our enterprises are not investing because of no money so they still use old hardware ..and need them working to get works and money...


#54 Zoso

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 03:51 AM

hi sixcentgeorge,

I dont know what you just wrote here but it seems to me it is based not on your own personal first hand knowledge of the facts but rather what you have read or heard from others (hearsay).


I used to think I knew stuff until I realized that it was mostly beliefs. now I know that in order to believe anything requires a lack of knowledge.

just sayin'

#55 Nuno Brito

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:44 AM

Might help to remember that this is a technical board, not really focused on politics, nor religion, nor whatever else. I mention this because opening the eyes (or not) to whatever corporation or government is doing on its users will not be solved here and today on a technical board. Worse, it will just divert the talk into an emotional ramble rather than focus on a practical solution.

 

Fact is that people (regardless of whom) appreciate an option for privacy (otherwise bathrooms wouldn't have a lock inside). So, I'd suggest we work towards fortifying Windows for privacy (e.g. like Alacran is doing with usable scripts). I'm sad we have to reach this point of not trusting an OS provider, but it isn't something new and we won't make them change their ways, we can only track and report what is changing on the landscape.

 

Switching is possible, and Linux can be just as unreliable (if not more). Ubuntu happily sells user data like candies. Debian is plagued with "accidents" (either intentional or accidental) making it insecure, and we only have knowledge of the exploits coming to public (2008): http://jblevins.org/log/ssh-vulnkey

 

Some exploits are not even mentioned so often: http://arstechnica.c...t-confirmed.ars

 

Fact is that privacy is at risk, what can we TODAY and NOW to counteract?

 

:cheers:

 

 



#56 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 10:42 AM

my politic spoiler is not racist as i talk about facts...the more french we are...the more pay taxes....

i think manging a country is not an easy job , and for sure can not be well made by people only living in the country for few years..and without diplomas..except being a mayor of a little town in paris suburbs

 

that should be said about grece may be ? like us they are eated by taxes and debts ...tsipras asked their opinion but few days later he was , with other famous democracies that respect "peoples votes" , signing the contrary...

 

end of spoiler



#57 pscEx

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 11:09 AM

Back to the primary issue :smart:

 

Appearently M$ performs 'spying', but that's just an action.

 

Can anybody tell me, which data M$ is collecting?

 

I do not mind when they record hardware configuration, IP number etc. or even whether ice-age Win 2000 is installed anywhere in my PC.

 

But real (illegal) spying for me begins e.g. with information about "Linux installed on a different partition".

Or reading browser history, or ...

 

Peter



#58 erwan.l

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 11:52 AM

Back to the primary issue :smart:

 

Appearently M$ performs 'spying', but that's just an action.

 

Can anybody tell me, which data M$ is collecting?

 

I do not mind when they record hardware configuration, IP number etc. or even whether ice-age Win 2000 is installed anywhere in my PC.

 

But real (illegal) spying for me begins e.g. with information about "Linux installed on a different partition".

Or reading browser history, or ...

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

So far, as far as I know, no evidences have been found of windows 7/8/10 pushing private datas out.

I read a couple of articles where guys had been sniffing trafic for a while and no unusual datas could be caught.

Hence I am puzzled with all these tools all at once poping on the internet pretenting to protect your privacy : what exactly is it that we are blocking since no one seems to be able to demonstrate private datas leakage.

 

The generic IT journalism is making some big headlines for a few weeks now but again I will believe it when I will see it with my own eyes.

Then the IT guy I am can start considering options (use other guys solutions or build my own).

 

The only known fact (to me) is Microsoft privacy statement which can indeed be discussed/disputed (see here).

Still,it is not clear yet whether this statement applies to online services only or to the OS as well.

Plus, working in a major corporate company, I would be surprised that this behavior would be accepted by the enterprise world (main target for MS).

 

I have myself tested my privacy in the past with gmail and facebook and could easily and clearly demonstrate that google/facebook was serious about what they were saying in their EULA : they are truly using my private datas to target ads and they probably resell my datas like they say they could.

 

The same needs to be demonstrated with windows 7/8/10 (i need evidences).

 

And again guys, dont see the above as me standing for MS (I have no particular interest there) nor denying that our privacy is at risk, but rather see this as a techie trying to understand what we are talking about it (whic I failed for now...).

I think this thread should be about documenting the what, how, etc rather than hunting witches on irrational grounds.

 

Cheers,

Erwan



#59 v77

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:28 PM

It also depends on what we call "private data". For instance, the hour at which you start and stop your system: is it private or not? Lately, a guy was surprised that I was able to tell him at which hour he goes to sleep by reading the event log...



#60 erwan.l

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:51 PM

It also depends on what we call "private data". For instance, the hour at which you start and stop your system: is it private or not? Lately, a guy was surprised that I was able to tell him at which hour he goes to sleep by reading the event log...

 

 

some examples from wikipedia.

The following data, often used for the express purpose of distinguishing individual identity, clearly classify as PII under the definition used by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (described in detail below):[11]

Full name (if not common)
Home address
Email address (if private from an association/club membership, etc.)
National identification number
Passport number
IP address (in some cases)
Vehicle registration plate number
Driver's license number
Face, fingerprints, or handwriting
Credit card numbers
Digital identity
Date of birth
Birthplace
Genetic information
Telephone number
Login name, screen name, nickname, or handle


#61 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 02:47 PM

@pscEx

 

There are two (different) aspects.
One thing is what is actually transmitted and stored. (which may change in any moment)
Another is the (supposing that the contract is valid) what Microsoft reserves to do with your data that include (by default)*everything*.

Microsoft listed *everything* in (at least) two different documents with a few other pages/documents linked from them (and the items listed are far too many to be re-listed here):
https://www.microsof...nt/default.aspx
https://www.microsof...nt/default.aspx

Besides the extremely vast listing of what they reserve to collect, store (and also in some cases disclose to third parties or even in a very few cases publish) what is interesting are the definitions of Windows 10 as a "bing powered experience" and as "cloud" OS:

Bing services include search and mapping services, as well as the Bing Toolbar and Bing Desktop apps. Bing services are also included within other Microsoft services, such as MSN Apps and Cortana, and Windows (which we refer to as Bing-powered experiences). When you use Bing services, we collect your search queries, location and other information about your interaction with our services.

 

 

Windows 10 ("Windows") is a personalized computing environment that enables you to seamlessly roam and access services, preferences and content across your computing devices from phones to tablets to the Surface Hub. Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based, and both cloud and local elements of Windows are updated regularly, providing you with the latest improvements and features. In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows. And because Windows is personal to you, we give you choices about the personal data we collect and how we use it.

The bold part above is where they outright lie :w00t: :ph34r: (just for erwan.l's interest ;)).

 

 

Please note how the above is "generic" where related to "services" and seemingly specific when related about Windows 10 (but vaguely referred also as "Windows"), it is not at all clear which parts apply to non--Windows 10 and/or are or will be back-ported to 7 or 8/8.1. 

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#62 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:23 PM

i have no idea why erwan.l is so fair with M$ and so much against google..

[ faceboot or ratbok as i name it , is a pure thief : all photo you post in his thingy , become its property...]

 

google is mostly free , nothing to pay for gmail or google search or maps or youtube...

windows is very known to steal others works and idea : like the winamp that was copied in media player , or the printer-fax or many others like netscape browser....and more recently google with bing....that become your main page when you update win10....

by now iexplore is dead....and M$ still uses directx that was free until 9 , to force the updates....

 

the big problem is that M$ has a lot of money and use it more to not pay than being honest...

 

google has software that read letters , so it offers you to track you delivery when a bill from ebay or amazon or else is recognized..

 

as we all know xp , we all know there was 4 service pack...while only one with win7 ...zero with8 ...8.1 ...10...

so this new "free os" is just a service pack ..but after one year , user will have to pay for it ...even if they hold a 7 or 8...

is that an honest behavior...?



#63 Zoso

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:30 PM

data itself is a tricky word.. as most if not all words are. the pronunciation of data depends on the definition of it. "daytuh" and "daatuh" are different pronunciations of the same word however it has been brought to my attention by a friend who works in the IT field that data pronounced one way means information that has been collected and the other way it means information that has yet to be entered or processed. it is a subject I need to verify myself in legal dictionary but that is also tricky because again, same words have different meanings.

take the word "individual" for example. look it up in legal dictionary, they do not indicate a man or woman. actually you will find that the words "man" or "woman" are rarely if ever used in modern legal dictionaries.

instead, words like "person", "human", "individual", etc. etc. are used and one might think these words have the same meaning in the legal trade as they do in common or native english or other tongue but that is incorrect.

this subject is complex, identity is also a tricky word. you can identify a man by looking at him but you can not present that what you are looking at on paper, plastic, or electronic bits. you can only re-present it.

are you present (a man) or are you a re-present-ative? (a legal fiction/person/individual) surely you can be both but this is why I say there is an identity crisis. men acting as agents but not aware of that fact.


if someone points to a document or something else and asks, "is that you?" and we say "yes" then we may have an identity crisis at hand because that paper or plastic or whatever is only a representation of data. "you" (another very tricky word BTW but used generally as commonly accepted here so as not to further confuse the issue)

"you" are standing right there (have standing) and "that" is a piece of paper which is only a representation of "you" it is not technically or in reality "you" (here is where we have widespread identity crisis)

but back to "data" if a man (not individual or person or whatever) puts/converts his creative energy into existence then we could say he has created some thing "res".

what is happening now is that our creations are being taken from us. "data" this is where overcoming the identity crisis becomes important. just "who" is actually doing the "taking" and how are they doing it? what is happening here?

a corporation is a legal fiction, it can not "act" with out a man or woman. corporations are corpses, men and women raise the dead by acting on behalf of them.

(supposing that the contract is valid)

the "system" works on presumptions and the contract is valid only if a man thinks it is. from my study, for any contract to be a valid one, it requires a "meeting of the minds" or in other words "consideration"

corporations do not have "minds" only men and women do, they can not even be a signatory to a contract, except by agency of man.

it is very important for mankind to "know thyself" only a man or woman can make a verifiable claim, has true "standing" and can testify "viva voce" once we begin to realise these simple truths the illusions (matrix) falls away.

what is real? -morpheous
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#64 Zoso

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:53 PM

but basically.. lol IMHO it is a data war between the living and the dead.

#65 misty

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:54 PM

:offtopic:

Some of the comments in this topic amuse me. Having worked for local government in the UK for over 15 years now I truly think that they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!! The more data collected the more difficult it can be to sift through it all to find something useful.

Having said that I do value my privacy - it would be useful to know what data is actually being collected and sent. I resorted to turning off the Windows Update serivce when I recently installed WIndows 10 - however that's due more to not wanting to kill by bandwidth and plough through my limited data plan when connecting through my phone.

After installing Windows 10 to register it against my hardware I reverted to Windows 7 initially but am now running Windows 8.1 - and loving it. Especially the Metro interface. Such a shame they got rid of it in Windows 10 as it's a great program launcher!!!!! Will be interesting to see if Windows 8(.1) enjoys a renaissance due to the current paranoia about Windows 10.

Regards

Misty

P.s. I could be classed as a Microsoft fanboy - for the record I use Windows as I like it, I'm familiar with it, and I'm too bloody lazy to learn how to use Linux (or any other OS).
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#66 erwan.l

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 05:19 PM

@pscEx

 

There are two (different) aspects.
One thing is what is actually transmitted and stored. (which may change in any moment)
Another is the (supposing that the contract is valid) what Microsoft reserves to do with your data that include (by default)*everything*.

Microsoft listed *everything* in (at least) two different documents with a few other pages/documents linked from them (and the items listed are far too many to be re-listed here):
https://www.microsof...nt/default.aspx
https://www.microsof...nt/default.aspx

Besides the extremely vast listing of what they reserve to collect, store (and also in some cases disclose to third parties or even in a very few cases publish) what is interesting are the definitions of Windows 10 as a "bing powered experience" and as "cloud" OS:

 

The bold part above is where they outright lie :w00t: :ph34r: (just for erwan.l's interest ;)).

 

 

Please note how the above is "generic" where related to "services" and seemingly specific when related about Windows 10 (but vaguely referred also as "Windows"), it is not at all clear which parts apply to non--Windows 10 and/or are or will be back-ported to 7 or 8/8.1. 

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

I do aggree there : 

-MS is vague about distinguishing cloud services and Windows (that actually reflect their current strategy)

-MS is vague when mentionning "Windows" or "Windows 10" (which actually is what this thread is about : windows 7 and privacy)

 

This part (statement) is a clearly a worry.

 

Apple and their devices are in a similar situation : would be intesesting to compare statements.

 

Other cloud services (google, facebook, etc) have the same statements (actually they are much more aggressive and careless with your privacy) but they dont provide you and OS and you dont have to use their services whereas with Windows it becomes much more difficult.

 

For instance, I know (for a fact) gmail is reading my mails to send me targeted adverts but I can perfectly set my client to use another service.

If I happen to know that MS is retrieving personal datas out of my OS, there is not much I will be able to do as a standard user.



#67 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 05:58 PM


Some of the comments in this topic amuse me. Having worked for local government in the UK for over 15 years now I truly think that they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!!! The more data collected the more difficult it can be to sift through it all to find something useful.
 

Sure :), and a conspiracy theorist might tell you how that may be exactly the reason why the governments, having found out that they are incapable to do it themselves, have outsourced all the data collection and organizing to Microsoft, Google and Apple. ;)

 

Not that I believe it, of course, but still a plausible enough theory.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#68 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:11 PM

Current threat from international terrorism

current-threat-sev.png

Current threat from Northern Ireland-related terrorism

The threat level for Northern Ireland-related terrorism is set separately for Northern Ireland and Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland).

current-threat-ni-ni-sev.png

current-threat-ni-gb-mod.png

 

 

http://www.gchq.gov....ages/index.aspx

 

https://www.mi5.gov....eat-levels.html

 

hscode.jpg

 

let us see next month "how right this level is...

 

maxresdefault.jpg



#69 alacran

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:13 PM

See this: http://www.msfn.org/...11#entry1107546

 

KB3068708
Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
This update introduces the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service to in-market devices...
<snip> This kind of update helps the overall application experience on Windows, by improving
the current operating system for upgrade to the latest version of Windows. <snip> By applying
this service, you can add benefits from the latest version of Windows to systems that have
not yet upgraded.



#70 Nuno Brito

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 01:41 AM

New scripts anti-spy are coming up. Can someone with Windows 10 check if this is a good project? https://github.com/W...es/BlockWindows

 

:cheers:



#71 alacran

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 02:48 AM

Be careful there are two new updates:

 

KB3083325 - Windows Update Client for Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2: September 2015

 

This article describes an update that contains some improvements to Windows Update Client in Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, or Windows Server 2012 R2.

 

 

KB3083324 - Windows Update Client for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2: September 2015

 

This article describes an update that contains some improvements to Windows Update Client in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1.

 

As it is usual now descriptions are vague


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#72 alacran

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:05 PM

New scripts anti-spy are coming up. Can someone with Windows 10 check if this is a good project? https://github.com/W...es/BlockWindows

 

:cheers:

 

It can work from 7 up to 10 see: https://blockwindows.wordpress.com/


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#73 Alexander Ceed

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:41 AM

I don't like the where this is going.

Instead of focusing on solutions to benefit mankind we are trying to fix stuff that shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

Sadly, I am not naive. I KNOW Microsoft has many other ways to spy on use, whether we use those scripts or not. Probably our best bet is either XP or Vista, or at most, Windows 7 SP1 original without updates.



#74 IAmTheTrueMeaningOfCovfefe

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:39 AM

Hopefully M$ continues with their privacy-intrusion policies (sarcastic) so that some gov't agency like the EU can slap them down with sanctions, fines, etc. Maybe a few class-action lawsuits might help too. It's too bad violating privacy isn't an anti-trust issue, or else the US Justice Dept could step in. Picture Bill Gates giving his hostile deposition in court.



#75 alacran

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 05:56 AM

And now even if you didn't reserve 10 it started downloading in all 7 and 8.x PC's that has automatic updates enabled, without asking you, so if you don't want it better remove all updates about it, and hide them, if you don't believe it read this (also included procedure to remove about 6GB of downloaded files):

 http://www.windowsce...-downloading-pc

 

alacran






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