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very unusal situation after issuing hide commands, need help


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#26 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 09:57 AM

I've now read diddy's guide (again) and lots of steve6375's guides aswell and I can not find how to chnage the partition ID in grub4dos.. maybe I missed it. I want to learn this way.

No, you have not or you developed a "command blindness" affection of some kind :w00t: :ph34r:.

 

Parttype.:

http://diddy.boot-la...es/commands.htm

http://diddy.boot-la...ds.htm#parttype

 

:duff:

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#27 erwan.l

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 12:16 PM

I would try a parttype (hd0,0) before pushing a parttype (hd0,00x27.

Just to be sure it reads 0xEE and therefore ensure I am touching the right disk,partition.

 

If you can do it from windows/GUI (rather than command line), it might be easier for you not to do any mistake.

 

/Erwan



#28 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 02:10 PM

I would have run geometry (hd0) (and/or (hd1), (hd2), etc.) instead, so that I could see at a glance all partition types on a given hard disk, with the (slight) advantage of also seeing if the fileystem type has been identified ;).

 

 

:duff:

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#29 Zoso

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 05:48 PM

well that is embarrassing.. "command blindness" is correct. I did not look after the appendix line, I did not think commands would be in the appendix but right there it is.

now I need to figure out where the grub4dos that is in use is located because when I selected it from the W7 boot screen and then entered "geometry (hd0)" for confirmation. next entered "parttype (hd0,0) 0x27"

rebooted and same error. so next I booted from a flashdrive with grub4dos and entered "geometry (hd0)" then "geometry (hd1)" and as expected the HDD was now (hd1)

next entry "parttype (hd1,0) 0x27" and this time grub4dos returned a confirmation of the change whereas before booted from HDD, it did not.

reboot and error is no longer. booting correctly now. yay! but now I know something is wrong with the grub4dos on HDD, probably the way it is being loaded because IIRC I used easyBCD to install grub4dos but that was too long ago to remember exactly.

so now, how can I figure out why the grub4dos on HDD did not make the change? the geometry command worked (returned the geometry info) but the parttype command did not confirm changes, it only retuned back to the grub prompt.

I suspect this is why Im getting so many other unexpected errors from this HDD set-up when trying to boot extended partitions and clonedisk .img's

BTW erwan.l, I am still interested about this question in case you missed it

can clonedisk prep XP to boot from usb with no outside help? I ask becasue I see options in offline registry tab.

thanks

#30 erwan.l

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 06:00 PM

BTW erwan.l, I am still interested about this question in case you missed it

thanks

 

Been a long time I played with XP and USB but I would do the following :

-clone your hdd to usb disk (I would do this from a winpe).

-on the offline registry (from your usb disk) :

    -rediscover mounted devices at next reboot

    -enable usb boot (usbhub, ...)

    -auto start disk controllers (ide, ...)

 

With that you should be able to boot XP from a USB disk (by all means, disconnect your original disk first).

Might help to start in safe mode the first time.

 

You may want to look at usbbootwatcher to make sure your registry changes around usb services stay permanent although if you use EWF, you may not need this.



#31 Zoso

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:44 PM

thats good to know there is another automated way to boot XP from usb, I will try it next time instead of usboot.


how can I figure out why the grub4dos on HDD did not make the change? the geometry command worked (returned the geometry info) but the parttype command did not confirm changes, it only returned back to the grub prompt.


having trouble figuring this out.. when in grub4dos console, if I enter "root" it returns "(hd0,1)" which is expected because that is where the gldr is located that I started from BUT I have other gldr(s) in root of other partitions, can this cause problems?

@ grub4dos c prompt, I enter "root" and it returns "(hd0,1) Filesystem type is ntfs, partition type 0x07"

next I enter "chainloader /bootmgr" which then returns "Will boot NTLDR from drive=0x80, partition=0x1(hidden sectors=0x2200800)"

next I enter "boot" and Im back at the W7 boot menu. does everything look alright with that?

also having trouble determining if I adjusted all the logical partitions to be able to boot XP from them per goodells instructions http://www.goodells....ot/ptable.shtml

can it be determined from these screen shots? (same as posted earlier)
Spoiler


or do I need to click on the boot record button to figure it? its so complicated that Im surprised I was able to figure it out a year ago! now I cant recall if I adjusted all the logical partitions or only one of them so I want to check that.

can this be done in clonedisk or is PTEdit a must for it?

thanks

#32 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 10:19 AM

or do I need to click on the boot record button to figure it? its so complicated that Im surprised I was able to figure it out a year ago! now I cant recall if I adjusted all the logical partitions or only one of them so I want to check that.

can this be done in clonedisk or is PTEdit a must for it?

Make it easy use partnew (and yes it is on the same page you missed on diddy's guide):
http://diddy.boot-la...nds.htm#partnew
BUT the part that interests you is the one in README_GRUB4DOS.txt (which by now you should know by heart ;)):
 

******************************************************************************
*** The PARTNEW Command Syntax ***
******************************************************************************

Besides the mappings in the above section, you may instead choose to create a
new primary partition with the PARTNEW command. PARTNEW can generate a primary
partition entry (in the partition table) for a logical partition.

For example,

partnew (hd0,3) 0x07 (hd0,4)+1

where the file (hd0,4)+1 stands for the whole partition (hd0,4). This command
will create a new primary partition (hd0,3) whose type is 0x07 and whose
contents/data is the same as that of the logical partition (hd0,4).

Just like a whole logical partition, a contiguous partition image file can
also be used with PARTNEW:

partnew (hd0,3) 0x00 (hd0,0)/my_partition.img

The type 0x00 indicates a type-auto-detection of the image MY_PARTITION.IMG.
The above command will create a new primary partition (hd0,3) with a proper
type and with contents/data being exactly that of the contiguous file
(hd0,0)/my_partition.img.

PARTNEW will automatically correct the "hidden sectors" in the BPB and the
modification will be permanent.
And PARTNEW modifies the partition table
permanently.

In addition to creating new partition entries, PARTNEW can also be used to
delete(erase, or wipe) a primary partition entry. For example,

partnew (hd0,3) 0 0 0

which will empty the last entry in the partition table in MBR. Generally,
you should use the form of "partnew PARTITION 0 0 0" to erase the entry.
Note that only the entry would be erased, and the data stored in the partition
will not be touched.

 

See also:

http://reboot.pro/to...nded-partition/

look who took part lately (two years ago) to that thread.... :whistling:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#33 Zoso

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 02:12 PM

hi Wonko, its easy once you know how, thats what Im working on. what about my other questions though:

I have other gldr(s) in root of other partitions, can this cause problems?

@ grub4dos c prompt, I enter "root" and it returns "(hd0,1) Filesystem type is ntfs, partition type 0x07"

next I enter "chainloader /bootmgr" which then returns "Will boot NTLDR from drive=0x80, partition=0x1(hidden sectors=0x2200800)"

next I enter "boot" and Im back at the W7 boot menu. does everything look alright with that?


usually I just use a blank HDD to experiment/learn on but I dont have another one to use in this system and I dont want to mess this one up.

thats also why Im trying to figure out how I could reconstruct the EPMBR's if needed. from what I gather, there is no way to back them up so if a repair is needed, it must be done manually from the records, is that correct?

thats why I asked this question:

can it be determined from these screen shots?


once I am confident I can rebuild the EPMBR chain then I can try to re-arrange and make some changes that would work better. plan is to get rid of two of the primary partitions, combining the BCDStore into the first W7 partition then I can image that for back up and create two new primaries to play/experiment with which shouldnt be as much trouble to boot other .imgs from.

while trying to get 2003 to boot from P11 last night, I used Misty's BCD guide and editied the registry key that easyBCD made for its version of ntldr which I think was one problem or part of it. I changed the key's path to ntldr from /NST/ntldr to just /ntldr and next reboot, the W7 boot menu entry for 2003 gave me two options in a new (XP style) menu:

"Please select the operating system to start:

Windows XP on D:\
Windows XP on F:\"

it looks like a boot.ini menu but I didnt make that one. somehow it found the other XP on D:\ and added it.

but neither boot correctly, F:\ did once but windows explorer froze and D:\ (XP64) stall at the animated boot/loading screen.

so anyway, if you or anyone can answer those questions in my prior post it would be most helpful.

thanks

#34 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 03:42 PM

Well, the issue here is that you cannot re-ask the same questions already asked (and answered to) or answered EVEN BEFORE it was actually asked:
 

just to be sure, how can I back up what I have as it is before I try this or is it only a matter of changing it back to 0xEE to get back to how it is now? I need to learn how to back all this complicated partitions up anyway because I want to try to put the original OEM W7 all on one partition as I mentioned earlier anyway.

 

Zoso, you already have a backup of what you might need to restore, what do you think the HdHacker backup copy I asked you to make first thing represents?. :dubbio:
 
Since you also have the full output of the PTEDIT for all the logical volumes, there is all the data needed to rebuild the whole EMBR chain from scratch (but there won't any need to do so).

 

can it be determined from these screen shots? (same as posted earlier)


Yes. :)

Each screenshot tells you which values are in each 1st and 2nd (if any) entry in the EMBR chain, and of course the actual sector in which a "next" EMBR is indexed by the previous one.
But you can as well backup each and every sector being part of the EMBR chain.
Of course, the sheer moment you "re-arrange" them the backups or the data of the MBR and EMBR chain will be m00t as the situation on disk will have changed.
On the other hand, if you understand the meaning of data relative to the current situation, plan the changes you want to make, document what you are going to do and do it through a tool of which you fully understand the way it works, these data may be of use.

If you want a rather comprehensive view of your disk partitioning, in a form that can be posted/shared/annotated easily, you could try running MS's own Secinspect.exe, possibly using SI.BAT and getting a SIout.txt:
http://thestarman.pc...efs.htm#SecInsp


The more general issue is that you put together that partitioning scheme:
a. without a "plan"
b. using *everything* (and the kitchen sink) without taking notes of what you did and with what tool and under which OS
c. without actually having enough familiarity with the various tools you used and their effects
d. insisting on making random or semi-random attempts at booting *whatever* from *wherever* without taking the time to verify/check the whole booting chain (either because you have not yet fully grasped the requisites for each OS or because one of the previous attempts left some "unwanted" leftover)
e. and now you are expecting to modify that partitioning scheme still without a plan and still using *everything* (and the kitchen sink) and still making "random" or semi-random attempts with tools method that you are still not completely familiar with.

Seriously, you cannot have gone (several times) over the Goodell's pages and have not yet fully grasped the concepts:
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/
or if you haven't, you should ask about the doubts you have on the theory before putting yourself in practice into a corner and then attempting to get out of the situation by doing random things, which may put you in another corner.

Also, you are cleverly shifting targets :w00t: :ph34r:, this thread started because *somehow* (as said most probably not by using grub4dos but rather making a mess with one of the other "smart" third party partitioning tools) you wrote a "wrong" partition ID, now it is about windows booting (actually failing to boot) from a logical volume, and then it is about failing to boot one or two specific installs which you have already mingled with in unspecified ways.

Maybe if you can take a deep breath :), describe what your current situation is, describe what your goal(s) is/are, and refrain from modifying anything with other tools or making "random" attempts, until a "plan" has been devised/agreed upon I could give you more constructive assistance.

:duff:
Wonko

#35 Zoso

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 04:15 PM

what do you mean "you cannot re-ask the same questions already asked"? I just did! ;-)

when I re-arrange things it may be moot but if the re-arrange works then I could do it again, if it doesnt work then I have info needed to redo.


didnt realize that Goodell's info was a "theory" either until now.. hmmm OK.

Im "changing targets" here instead of a new thread because all the details are here already.

about the plan:

plan is to get rid of two of the primary partitions, combining the BCDStore into the first W7 partition then I can image that for back up and create two new primaries to play/experiment with which shouldnt be as much trouble to boot other .imgs from.


now who is asking the same questions here LOL anyway, the plan is in small steps as I am learning to crawl before I can walk but at this point that is the plan and once I get that working I think I can go from there much easier because it will be more like the standard way Ive been doing things. with this system I had to change things because for the first time I was working around an OEM install and an unfamiliar one at that (W7)

in other words, I didnt want to mess up a working/OEM/activated/genuine W7 so I worked around it and thats how I got here.

thanks

#36 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 04:41 PM

If you feel like all the needed details were given (though I cannot find a list of the OS's that you want to multiboot, the exact scope of each volume or partition and different posts provided different details and you already made changes - not fully detailed - to the contents of the partition(s) and/or to boot managers/booting sequences) and if you are convinced that those two lines represent your detailed plan, it's fine :).

Most probably someone will have the time to wring out of you all the (IMHO) missing info or jump from post to post to attempt putting together the partial info and then provide you with some advice or simply provide some (educated) guesses that you may use to carry on with your "plan".

I was suggesting you to provide the Standard Litany:
http://homepage.ntlw...ard-litany.html
because I am not very good at guessing games :(, and there is the great risk of falling in the XYZ problem:
http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html


:duff:
Wonko

#37 Zoso

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 07:46 PM

the next step from here is something like this:

http://www.sevenforu...-c-easybcd.html
but without using easyBCD. Im reading Misty's BCD guide now to see if/how I can do it manually.

#38 misty

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 09:09 PM

A few years ago I made myself some notes re PTEDIT usage based on Dan Goodell's excellent Understanding MultiBooting
and Booting Windows from an Extended Partition
guide. Just updated and uploaded them as they may be useful - see here.

Regards,

Misty

P.s. I've not read this whole topic so I'm not sure how useful these notes will be - please do try and follow Wonko's advice and give good quality information about your setup and aims, and try to follow any advice he gives. If there's one thing I've learned from reading similar threads, you'll probably get there faster if you stay focused on resolving the issue by following advice. Making assumptions and going off on a tangent will get very frustrating for people offering help.

#39 Zoso

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:37 PM

thanks Misty, your notes made it so much easier than Goodell's, its actually not that hard but Goodell's just made it confusing to me for some reason. (and Ive done this before)

yeah, Wonko is "The Man"! not perfect but most helpful. but a plan and details are sometimes hard to explain when you cant recall the details or the plan is constantly evolving. Im working on it though.


thanks




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