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very unusal situation after issuing hide commands, need help


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#1 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:28 AM

hello,

I have a system that does not boot. "ERROR: No Boot disk has been detected or the disk has failed."

this started first boot after using hide/unhide commands from menu.lst in an attempt to resolve non booting XP in hd0,9. it has been a while since I set this system up so I will probably mis some details but here goes..

the system started as an OEM Acer w/500gb SATA HDD with three primary partitions. the OEM hidden one named "PQSERVICE", next the "system reserved" active partition, then the W7 partition.

I resized the W7 partition and made and extended partition with several logicals within it then installed embedded7 in two of them and XP in two others. this was all working until I tried to change the XP in one of the partitions.

I was having trouble booting the new XP from grub4dos that was called from boot.ini located in the system reserved partition so that it made grub4dos entry in BCD boot screen. all sorts of errors depending on what entry I tried. error 13, invalide boot.ini, BOOTMGR is missing, etc. so I had the idea that maybe it was getting confused and I tried to prevent that by using the hide command in the menu entry that I was using to boot the XP:

title P9 XP
hide (hd0,0)
hide (hd0,1)
root (hd0,9)
chainloader (hd0,9)/ntldr

it didnt work so I rebooted back into the HDD and it booted into w7 embedded fine but the sytem reserved partition was hidden and since that is where my menu.lst is located, I rebooted into gru4dos and issued unhide (hd0,0) and then unhide (hd0,1) to undo the hide since I could not do it from the menu.lst

next reboot was "ERROR: No Boot disk has been detected or the disk has failed."

OK, now I have a problem! I havnt done anything else to the HDD from there. only booted an XP service OS in ram from a usbflashdisk that has tools on it. heres the info from that:

see spoiler for screen caps:
Spoiler


so the BIOS cant see the HDD now, neither can some other softwares when booted from ram but others can see it and as you can see, they give conflicting info about it.

I dont know what would be the best step to take to recover this instead of making it worse or even unrecoverable so I did my best to explain in detail about it so hopefully someone here can help me figure it out.

thanks in advance!


edited to add rmprepusb info:
Spoiler


PTEdit could not see it either

#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:45 AM

There is nothing conflicting that I can see.

You posted the Clonedisk view of \\PhysicalDrive8, not of 7 (and anyway from what can be seen of disk 8 it may have it's own issues when booted in XP).

Of WHICH disk (7 or 8) are we talking?

Provide an actual copy of the MBR of the disk you are having issues, (I presume Disk 7), use a disk editor or HDhacker:
http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/
to get the copy then compress it into a .zip archive and attach it to your next post.

:duff:
Wonko

#3 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:57 AM

hi Wonko,

thats part of the conflicting info, this is the same disk. they all see it differently? some as disk7, some as disk, some disk9!

Im going to pull out this multi function card reader as it always shows up as system disks and is taking up 5 spaces/drive letters.

I will try your suggestion and report back with that info (if it can see the HDD)

thanks

#4 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 12:10 PM

Im going to pull out this multi function card reader as it always shows up as system disks and is taking up 5 spaces/drive letters


unbelievable! I unplugged the cord to the CD/DVD, Multi-card reader, & optional usb ports from the mobo one at a time while XP was booted in ram so that I could identify which went to the card reader since I cant tell without taking the whole case assembly apart.

first reboot and no HDD ERROR! its working now. this is very strange.. going to recheck everything inside and out now and see if there is still conflicting info.

#5 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 02:17 PM

it boots now but only when pressing F12 to select boot device, if F12 is not pressed then same "ERROR: No Boot disk has been detected or the disk has failed."

booted my service XP in ram from usb then removed the usb and checked the program infos again:

Spoiler


and rmprepusb info;
Spoiler


these were all caps taken in order, no other disks present, only HDD and ramdisc that was booted.

Ive attached the HDHacker info aswell. why are different programs showing conflicting info for the same HDD and some not even detecting it?? could this be a BIOS issue?

thanks

Attached Files



#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:19 PM

FORGET about anything but Disk Manager, at least for the numbering of disks, partucularly and evidently the AOMEI thingy numbers devices starting from 1 (this is on-standard and should be avoided, first disk is disk 0 or physicaldrive0), BUT DO NOT EVEN THINK of using the Disk Manager of Windows XP to change ANYTHING on that disk, as you are seriously risking to lose all the logical volumes inside extended.

 

Now what is the problem?

The disk 0 or Physicaldrive 0 appears as a "normal" 360 Gb hard disk with a normal single NTFS partition

The disk 1 or Physicaldrive 1 is nowhere to be seen (and this is not entirely "normal").

The disk 2 or Physicaldrive 2 appears as a "normal" 360 Gb hard disk with (maybe) a normal single NTFS partition BUT without a drive letter assigned to it.

The disk 3 or Physicaldrive 3 appears as a (uncommonly partitioned in a myriad of tiny partitions) 500 Gb disk, for which you posted the HdHAcker backup, which (obviously) contains exactly the same data as the Clonedisk screenshot you posted.

 

The Partition table is that of a (BTW half-@§§ed) "Hybrid" MBR/GPT disk, something that you shouldn't even be THINKING :w00t: of doing unless you really know where your towel is :ph34r:.

 

Why (the heck) the first partition has a  0xEE ID? (or if you prefer How (the heck) did you manage to have it set with that ID)?

 

I have to presume that that was a "normal" MBR disk where first partition was a "normal" NTFS volume and *somehow* you changed it's ID from the original value to EE. :unsure:, since it is a "PQSERVICE" partition it should be the "reserved" Acer recovery partition that has an ID of 0x27, see also:

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24631

 

Use clonedisk (or grub4dos) to change the first partition ID from 0xEE to 0x27 and reboot, I repeat DO NOT USE the XP Disk Manager to change ANYTHING on that disk.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#7 erwan.l

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:29 PM

Mx8zCwU.jpg
 

 

First partition (GPT) is 35651584 sectors = 17GB.

Second partition (NTFS) is 204800 sectors = 100MB.

Third partition (NTFS) is 83890078 sectors = 40GB.

Fourth partition (Extended - 10 partitions) is 836054666 sectors = 398GB.

 

Partition table looks ok to me except indeed for the first partition being of GPT type...



#8 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:37 PM

The disk 0 or Physicaldrive 0 appears as a "normal" 360 Gb hard disk with a normal single NTFS partition
The disk 1 or Physicaldrive 1 is nowhere to be seen (and this is not entirely "normal").
The disk 2 or Physicaldrive 2 appears as a "normal" 360 Gb hard disk with (maybe) a normal single NTFS partition BUT without a drive letter assigned to it.

360MB not "GB", disk 0 is the running XP from which the snaps were taken. it was booted from a clonedisk .img on a usb stick into RAM.

Im not sure why that shows up but it always does when I boot any XP in RAM from anywhere on any system. maybe it is because I have firadisk AND winVblock BOTH installed in the XP before cloning it?

not sure if this will help but here is snaps of the usb stick before I removed it:
UAyh8mU.jpg
vJeDsTL.jpg


now this is the exact same clonedisk .img that I am booting in RAM except restored onto a usb hdd and booted:


R7UWL1L.jpg
upl.php

when I booted it from the usb hdd i noticed that PTEdit and MBRWiz were now working. not sure why they dont work in the clone .img booted in RAM? (I want to figure this out too but it will have to wait for now) so I took snaps of the PTEdit info:

Spoiler


The disk 3 or Physicaldrive 3 appears as a (uncommonly partitioned in a myriad of tiny partitions) 500 Gb disk, for which you posted the HdHAcker backup, which (obviously) contains exactly the same data as the Clonedisk screenshot you posted.

The Partition table is that of a (BTW half-@§§ed) "Hybrid" MBR/GPT disk, something that you shouldn't even be THINKING :w00t: of doing unless you really know where your towel is :ph34r:.

Im not sure how this happened. this is the system drive I mentioned in the OP. I think I used AOMEI to resize the third primary partition so that I could create the extended partition and logicals but I cant recall for certain or if I used XP when using PTEdit to adjust the logical partitions to boot XP from. It just happened this way by accident somehow (Hybrid mbr/gpt)

Why (the heck) the first partition has a 0xEE ID? (or if you prefer How (the heck) did you manage to have it set with that ID)?

I have no idea and Im fairly sure that I have not touched it with anything.


I have to presume that that was a "normal" MBR disk where first partition was a "normal" NTFS volume and *somehow* you changed it's ID from the original value to EE. :unsure:, since it is a "PQSERVICE" partition it should be the "reserved" Acer recovery partition that has an ID of 0x27, see also:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24631

I'll check it out.


Use clonedisk (or grub4dos) to change the first partition ID from 0xEE to 0x27 and reboot, I repeat DO NOT USE the XP Disk Manager to change ANYTHING on that disk.

sounds good but I will wait to hear back from you after reviewing this post since there was some misunderstanding that I hope this post helps to clarify.


thanks

#9 erwan.l

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:56 PM

LpNB3W3.jpg

 

slightly deviating from the topic : when do you get this error?

when displaying the main window and when clickin on disk\partition editor?



#10 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:57 PM

First partition (GPT) is 35651584 sectors = 17GB.
Second partition (NTFS) is 204800 sectors = 100MB.
Third partition (NTFS) is 83890078 sectors = 40GB.
Fourth partition (Extended - 10 partitions) is 836054666 sectors = 398GB.
 
Partition table looks ok to me except indeed for the first partition being of GPT type...


hi erwan.l,

since Im pretty sure I did not alter the first partition and it is GPT then I must not have realized that at the time I started working on it. I did not know anything about GPT and very little about it now.

ultimately, I would like to merge all three primaries into one working W7 installation and image that so that a recovery partition is not needed but that is beyond my knowledge at this time. for now I just want to get it working so that no user intervention is needed at boot.


later, the next chance I get to work on this, I will removed this HDD and attach it to another unmodified system (via a sata to usb adapter) to see if anything else peculiar is going on with it.


thanks

#11 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:00 PM

slightly deviating from the topic : when do you get this error?
when displaying the main window and when clickin on disk\partition editor?


that was when I selected disk 8 there and then "partition editor", I wasnt about to make edits but I wanted to see if that provided more info.

#12 erwan.l

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:39 PM

that was when I selected disk 8 there and then "partition editor", I wasnt about to make edits but I wanted to see if that provided more info.

 

When you double click on your disk in clonedisk (to get the properties), I would be interested to know the partition style (MBR or GPT).

I suspect it will be "MBR"...



#13 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:40 PM

Zoso, that disk is NOT GPT.

 

XP wouldn't allow access to a GPT disk.

 

A GPT disk would have the protective ID partition entry span over the whole device, starting from second sector.

 

It is a "normal" MBR disk where the first partition has been transformed (most probably now that you tell about it by the AOMEI partition tool misbehaving) into using a 0xEE "protective GPT" partition ID.

 

This is exactly the kind of (totally @§§ed) setup (a badly formed "hybrid", which is already non-standard enough) that can trick most operating systems (and tools) into misbehaving.

 

Simply do what you have been told, change that 0xEE to 0x27 (or 0x07 if you want to have a drive letter assignerd to that PQservice partition), and you will see that all your issues will go away.

 

JFYI, the logical volumes inside Extended on that disk (from the PTEdit screenshots you posted) were created under XP (or however using the XP default alignment).

 

Still DO NOT use XP Disk Manager to attempt changing anything on that disk (now that is clear that the used offset for logicals is 63 you shouldn't be subject to the issue, but it's better to play safe).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#14 Zoso

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:42 PM

I connected the HDD (by sata to usb adapter) to another system with a fresh OEM XP install and at a glance the results were the same info so I didnt record everything again.

When you double click on your disk in clonedisk (to get the properties), I would be interested to know the partition style (MBR or GPT).
I suspect it will be "MBR"...

another error, see screen shots:

Spoiler

hope that it helps.




It is a "normal" MBR disk where the first partition has been transformed (most probably now that you tell about it by the AOMEI partition tool misbehaving) into using a 0xEE "protective GPT" partition ID.

but the thing about it is.. I am certain that this happened after using grub4dos in a new (to this system) way. 0.4.5c 2014-10-27 to hide and I just noticed that it was an older version I used to unhide since I lost access to the one on the HDD. the USB sticks version is 0.4.5c 2012-06-19 that was used to unhide. could this have casued this instead of AOMEI becasue I havnt used AOMEI on this system in over a year if ever because Im not certain that is how I resized the partition initially. I am not too familiar with W7 but I think you can resize partitions with diskmanager in W7, correct? if so, I probably would have used that instead of AOMEI.

so I think it may be something else. probably something to do with grub4dos actually but possibly a BIOS issue.

Simply do what you have been told, change that 0xEE to 0x27 (or 0x07 if you want to have a drive letter assigned to that PQservice partition), and you will see that all your issues will go away.

just to be sure, how can I back up what I have as it is before I try this or is it only a matter of changing it back to 0xEE to get back to how it is now? I need to learn how to back all this complicated partitions up anyway because I want to try to put the original OEM W7 all on one partition as I mentioned earlier anyway.

JFYI, the logical volumes inside Extended on that disk (from the PTEdit screenshots you posted) were created under XP (or however using the XP default alignment).

not so sure, the 63 alignment is becasue I was following the info from goodells website to a T so it does look like XP but cant be sure about it.


Still DO NOT use XP Disk Manager to attempt changing anything on that disk (now that is clear that the used offset for logicals is 63 you shouldn't be subject to the issue, but it's better to play safe).

actually, since this was brought to my attention just recently here on another thread and because I know I didnt have a solid back up of the partition layout as it is, I have been being very careful not to tamper with it!

I didnt think that hide and unhide worked this way, I thought it was done inside gub4dos and not on the actual HDD. I know now! but still we have the issue of how those commands made this HDD uable to boot normally? not saying it made the GPT partition for sure because maybe it has been that way for over a year but something to do with hide and unhide (and two different versions of gru4dos) made it not boot the same as before, this I am 98.7% certain.

thanks

#15 AnonVendetta

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:45 AM

Are all of/more than one of your NTFS partitions (excluding System Reserved) encrypted with DiskCryptor? How many contain bootable OSes? How do you go about getting DC to boot into your encrypted Windows OS of choice? I ask because such a complex partition layout is sure to confuse DC.



#16 Zoso

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:41 AM

Are all of/more than one of your NTFS partitions (excluding System Reserved) encrypted with DiskCryptor? How many contain bootable OSes? How do you go about getting DC to boot into your encrypted Windows OS of choice? I ask because such a complex partition layout is sure to confuse DC.

hi AnonVendetta,

currently only one partition is encrypted,mainly for back-up images. DC is the main bootloader and operates the mbr. it is very useful this way and you need to encrypt for a password to take effect but you can then decrypt and the password remains functional unless you remove the DC bootloader/mbr.

this system is in the family room and each family member has their own OS that requires a unique pass to boot into. if no password is entered it automatically boots into the default OEM W7 that Ive added EWF to so that anyone can use it (guests/kids friends) and this default boot doesnt save changes through reboots so this makes it nearly virus proof and protects from accumulated kid stuff, its also a great learning tool for the kids because they can explore in places without worry of breaking the computer.

it a neat and very unique set up and I dont think I could do it without DC or it would take alot more study to figure out how with out dc anyway.

#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:45 AM

Zoso, you already have a backup of what you might need to restore, what do you think the HdHacker backup copy I asked you to make first thing represents?. :dubbio:

 

Since you also have the full output of the PTEDIT for all the logical volumes, there is all the data needed to rebuild the whole EMBR chain from scratch (but there won't any need to do so).

 

In any case your mission, should you accept it, is to change the value of 1 (one) byte.

 

The hide (or unhide) has little to do with it, unless *somehow* you managed to have first that partition have a 0xFE partition id, and later you un-hid it.

 

Quick reminder, for the few "known" partition types, like 0x01, 0x04, 0x06, 0x07, 0x0b, 0x0c, 0x0e,  you hide them by adding 0x10, obtaining 0x11, 0x14, 0x16, 0x17, 0x1b, 0x1c, 0x1e, guess what happens if you unhide a 0xFE partition in grub4dos?

 

:duff:

Wonko



#18 erwan.l

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:35 AM

I connected the HDD (by sata to usb adapter) to another system with a fresh OEM XP install and at a glance the results were the same info so I didnt record everything again.

another error, see screen shots:

Spoiler

hope that it helps.
 

 

Thanks for these extensive details !

I have reuploaded a new version.

You should no longer get this error and you should be able to use the partition editor (and change the partition type from there if you wish or else from the MBR editor).

 

QiNETAb.png



#19 Zoso

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:07 PM

OK then, now 0x27 for now because thats what we think it was before this all started. so here:
xxhdphU.jpg
in the box containing "EE", I need to change in that box to 0x27? looks like it is not enough room or 0x27 needs to be converted?

erwan.l, I just dloaded and ran that version and the same error. I think the same by glancing over the info but I dont want to mis any important details so Im posting screencaps again. I ran it from the ram booted image and then rebooted same OS from usb hdd to be sure.

Spoiler


Im happy to keep testing it if you need. I think I should change this with grub4dos now since it can be done without an OS and because thats where it started. is this change to 0x27 something I can find direction in diddys or steve6375's guides?

thanks

#20 erwan.l

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:14 PM

replace EE with 27.

 

or like below in partition editor 

 

yQ0vw04.png

 

about the error,looks like the clonedisk upload did not work.

i re uploaded again and increased version to 2.3.3.

try again?



#21 Zoso

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:22 PM

replace EE with 27.
 
or like below in partition editor 
 
yQ0vw04.png
 
about the error,looks like the clonedisk upload did not work.
i re uploaded again and increased version to 2.3.3.
try again?


OK, thanks. which dload link is this new upload? both? you have on reboot.pro and your site.

#22 erwan.l

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:32 PM

OK, thanks. which dload link is this new upload? both? you have on reboot.pro and your site.

 

dload here (should be the same on reboot.pro) ..



#23 Zoso

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:46 PM

dload here (should be the same on reboot.pro) ..


great! no error this time and I like the partition editor! shows the extended partitions layout!

I really need to spend some time getting to know clonedisk, so much todo inside it! maybe we can talk Misty into it also since thats where all the great guide/tutorials are coming from lately. (hi Misty;-))

can clonedisk prep XP to boot from usb with no outside help? I ask becasue I see options in offline registry tab.

thanks erwan.l

#24 AnonVendetta

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:38 PM

@ Zoso: Sorry I cant help, but I asked because I used to use DS for a few years, but stopped because there was an incompatibility betwern it and my favorite snapshotting software (Drive Snapshot). Hot imaging (while Windows is running) worked fine, but restores always failed with an error I never figured out the meaning of, even though I had already authenticated. What do you use to back up your DS partitions?

 

I can understand the family/friends situation and wanting everyone to have their own isolated partition/OS, without being able to access the others. I personally never let anyone use my PCs, not even close friends/girlfriends/family. So I had no situations similiar to yours. But I did want to have multiple Windows OSes and non-OS data volumes, all crypted with DS. But I was never able to figure out how multiple OSes could share the DS MBR loader, yet still have a separate pass for each OS. I know DC can differentiate different OS volumes and send you to whichever depending on what pass is entered, but it was all just confusing at the time (and still is) how to accomplish a multi-OS setup sithout confusing DC with active partitions, etc.

 

You may also be aware that DC can simultaneously mount multiple volumes at boot, but only if they share the same password.

 This would conflict with a crypted multi-Windows setup, since without different passes they would be difficult for DC to tell apart (which to boot), and yet with the same pass they could still be mounted together. This is part of why I havent tried any of the methods from the "Hack bootmgr on BIOS/GPT, although I'm starting to form the idea that the virtual floppy approach could be applied by installing a sepparate DC loader instance in its' own floppy image per crypted OS. This would, of course, prevent DC from "seeing" the other crypted partitions, since it believes its' MBR in floppy constitutes the entire disk layout. Using an encryption software that supports UEFI booting/GPT is my preference, seems much simpler in theory since it's not limited to MBR constraints. But their is only one software I know of that can do this, and it's non-free/commercial.

 

*End unintentional blather/hijacking*



#25 Zoso

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 01:52 AM

I've now read diddy's guide (again) and lots of steve6375's guides aswell and I can not find how to chnage the partition ID in grub4dos.. maybe I missed it. I want to learn this way.

AnonVendetta, DS? DC is not that difficult to figure out, just takes some time to practice and spare equipment to be sure it is working as you need before adapting to it on your main systems. it has console too so batch files can automate everything just about. there is a wiki with lots of good info about it at the website.




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