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Proposal/Request for FeedBack: Naming/Formatting of OS-ShortNames - Asking for Additions

formatting naming os shortname windows linux gnu grub bootmgr ntldr

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#1 S466531257BOSS

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 06:13 PM

Hi, i just wish to gain some feedback on the following topic

: Naming/Formatting of OS-ShortNames - Asking for Additions

 

I am using ( for nearly two decades right now ) a self-thought/-taught formatting of shortnames for Operating-systems in their diversifications, like editions, service-pack states, etc.

 

Let me explain on a basic version ( 1st Mutator|Phase || General Definition )

 

EXAM | For example :

 

BMWN61SC // BootMgr - MicroSoft - Windows - NT - Family: 6 - Generation: 1 - Family-Type|Family-Release: Server - Family-Edition|Family-Variant : Core

 

so Syntax in short is like

: BootLoader - OS:Manufacturer|Author|Class - OS:Name-General - OS:Family-Name - OS:Family-Version||-Title - OS:Family-Generation - OS:Family-Type||:Family-Release(Service-Pack|RollOut|Mutation) - OS:Edition||:Variant

 

some more examples to make it easier to understand

:

EXAM

 

:NMWN513H

 

Boot-Loader: NTLDR | Manufacturer: MicroSoft | OS-Name: Windows | OS-Family-Name: NT | OS-Family-Version: 5 | Family-Generation: 1 | Family-Release: 3 | Family-Edition: Home

... in clear-text as originally named : MicroSoft Windows XP SP3 Home Edition

 

:GCLDUP5A

 

Boot-Loader: GRUB | Manufacturer: Canonical | OS-Name: Linux | OS-Family-Name: Debian | OS-Family-Title: Ubuntu | Family-Generation: P=Precise-Pangolin=12.04 | Family-Release: 5 | Family-Edition: Alternate

... in clear-text as originally named : ( Debian-based Linux by Canonical ) Ubuntu Precise Pangolin 12.04 Release 5 Alternate

 

 

So you might have an idea, what my naming convention points out ; But what is it for ?

 

Due to the fact i am active with/on Computers of any kind since 1987 ( age of 10 ) and i am in need of systematics to remember things ( Asperger-Syndrome ) i use Schemes like these in any occasion to remember and define things ; You can think of it as a possibility to recognize things while itself points out in what context it is/will be used ;

 

I am using this naming-scheme ( vaguely remembering ) since the days of Suse-Linux 4 / Windows 98/, something inbetween; I got that idea while experiencing QNX in its Floppy-Based-Version and first contacts with the interna of Windows NT 3.1/4.0 and as i have always (coming from a HC-Background : Commodore C4/64 / Amiga 500 / Atari ST , etc. ) try to use things that are handled in the same manner indepent of analogue/digital || print/screen || handwritten/mnemonic to define what i am actually working on / running / using ;

 

So far to the story behind :

 

What i am out for ?

 

 

I wish to have some feedback on how you ( yes, each of you ) would handle OS-Short-Names according to my scheme; it's like having a counter-check on the variants i already use.

 

The reason why ?

 

Well, i am looking out for releasing my ' personal secrets ' in handling any kind of install/setup/deployment--tasks i've used in the last 3 decades and though i have always been able to differ things for myself, i was constantly asked what the cryptography secret behind this naming scheme is ; So i wish to have your thoughts to work it out as a precise scheme, in order to give it back to the community .

 

If you ask why One is using such a scheme :

 

Since the Home-Computer days ( besides custom disk-geometries / self-defined disk-access/-format ) we have a small but efficient and allday-used least common denominator for file/folder-naming/-sort :

 

It is mostly called FAT ( File Allocation Table )

and as ( especially here o reboot.pro ) most people know : FAT has some simple limitations, like

8.3-File-Names ( 8 chars followed by file-type-extension of 3 chars separated by dot ) ;

if you have counted the chars for my OS-Short-Naming you come to ?

 

BMWN513H || GCLDUP5A ... Yep, 8 characters

 

This kind of Naming can even be used on an Atari ST or a Commodore 64 .

 

However, i think i explained enough and in full detail.

 

 

It would be very nice and kind of all of you if you would please the request by just thinking out loud:

 

HOW WOULD YOU NAME THE OPERATING-SYSTEMS YOU PERSONALLY USE ACCORDING TO MY NAMING-CONVENTION GIVEN ABOVE ?

 

 

THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST .

 

S466531257 BOSS

PAETH CLAUDIUSRAPHAEL

 

P.s.

: To the networking Guys and those that wish to state this is nonsense -- consider to remember the naming-limitations of NetBios / SMB/ Samba calls ( WorkGroups/Node-Names) ; you might see why it is useful to have a short-naming convention that is identical from file-based ( e.g.: for systems booted on uefi-systems ESP via grub4dos/plop from usb/pxe stored on FAT reachable as same-named-node in a network, possibly for experimental/teaching/learning-use in a home-/school- -network or in deployment-scenarios whereas you steer the deployment via wifi to xxx-nodes by stacking up the needed variants locally to them cisco-switches via serial // if you know about - you'll get the idea ... )


Edited by S466531257BOSS, 04 August 2015 - 06:43 PM.


#2 S466531257BOSS

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 06:34 PM

Some more examples i have in use right at this moment

EXAM

:

:NMWN510P

NTLDR-Booted MicroSoft Windows XP ( NT 5.1 ) Retail Release Professional

:BMWN512M

BootMgr-Booted MicroSoft Windows XP ( NT 5.1 / Servie Pack 2 ) Media-Center -Edition

:GLLRFBSL

GRUB-Booted Libre Linux RedHat-Package-Management- Fedora- -based BLAG Spartacus Live

:BMWN62SC

BOOTMGR-Booted MicroSoft Windows NT 6.2 ( Windows 8 / Windows 2012 ) Server Core

:SGLDK11P

SysLinux-Booted GNU Linux Debian-based Kali 1.1 Persistent

:CBDAMXLL

Clover-Booted BSD Darwin-based Apple MacOS X Leopard Live

 

etc.:

 

Just to make it clear, that I AM USING THIS EXTENSIVELY AND THAT IT IS NO NONSENSE ( before someone could ask / state that ) ...

 

THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST .

 

S466531257 BOSS

PAETH CLAUDIUSRAPHAEL



#3 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 07:18 PM

Well, as you said FAT has 11 characters limit, 8 for filename and 3 for extension (but 11 for directories or label of volumes).

Actually having a "fixed position" separator like the dot but an optional number of characters (up to three) after it might be an advantage.

 

So, once said (since you named it ;)) that is seems like making very little sense :w00t:, I would use the characters after the dot to differentiate the particular build if not standard.

 

As an example

Four characters for a more meaningful shortening of the OS name (if you identify the OS you don't really need the manufacturer name :

WXPH <- Windows XP Home

WXPP <- Windows XP Professional

etc.

W03S<- Windows 2003 Server

WVIH <- Windows VISTA Home

etc.

W70H < Windows 7 Home

 

 

One number for SP if any or 0 for "gold":

WXPH1 <- Windows XP Home Service Pack 1

W70H0 <- Windows 7 Home "Gold"

Up to two optional characters for further details

W08S1R1 <- Windows 2008 Server R1 Service Pack 1

W12S0SC <- Windows 2012 Server Core "gold" (it doesn't exist a Windows 8 or 8.1 "Server Core", though BOTH 8 and Server 2012 are NT 6.2, MS has made a mess of numbering, XP 64 bit is 5.2 like Server 2003)

 

To me this is enough info, because I know that an XP will "normally" boot through NTLDR, but we still have the issue of 32 bit or 64 bit release for most of these OS's so we need to use last available letter to determin the bit width of the OS, let's say we use T for Thirtytwo and S for Sixtyfour):

WXPH1__T <-Windows XP Home SP1 (booting "normally" through NTLDR) 32 bit

but:

WXPH1__T.B <-Windows XP Home SP1 32 bit booting through BOOTMGR

WXPH1__T.GB <-Windows XP Home SP1  32 bit booting through Grub4dos and BOOTMGR

WXPH1__T.SN <-Windows XP Home SP1  32 bit booting through Syslinux and NTLDR

W70P2__S <- Window 7 Professional SP2 64 bit (booting "normally" through BOOTMGR)

etc.

at first sight anything without an extension is "standard" booting and anything with a dot has a modified boot sequence.

 

This seems to me like easily covering all Microsoft OS's, now, all the above have the common part that  they start with the W (and a given convention is used), you can have a different convention (before the dot) for names starting with L (Linux) with B (BSD) or M (Mac OS) 

 

Of course just an idea on how I would better understand the "short names".

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#4 S466531257BOSS

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:01 PM

Well, i hoped for it, but it's amazing that my desperate wish was heard :

W O N K O ( The almighty - The Win2K 4Eva - The Only One And Only that Has to say At least anything to anything - has answered my First Post !!! WoooHAaaaa!!!

Yes !!!! ( Sry, but 4 peeps like me that never participate but reading from the beginning : Wonko Came and it was good ... )

Truly, thank you for giving me that honour ; that at least signs my request as : viable enpugh to spend a thought on it.


Thank you, sincerely! :cheerleader:


To your thoughts and efforts
:CITE
:Four characters for a more meaningful shortening of the OS name (if you identify the OS you don't really need the manufacturer name :
WXPH <- Windows XP Home
WXPP <- Windows XP Professional

In the inbetween ( ... some days ( YEARS ) ago i tried it, but it was too Windows-specific ) ; to explain the necessity of mentioning MicroSoft via ' M ' in the 'OS-Manufacturer'-field
: You ( and i am very sure about this : YOU KNOW !!! ) : Windows is a copyrighted trade-mark but it is also a name for a platform; that platform can be determined by its api : MFC ( MicroSoft-Foundation Class ) for example or via its ( from user-perspective ) obvious presentation via the Desktop-Metaphor that made Windows what Windows is ; Nevertheless:
It is / was ( depending on Family / Version / Edition ) possible to use alternative Windows-Decorators or even complete alternative Window-Managers or Desktop-Systems ( BlackBox | Cameo | Emerge | Litestep | etc. ) ; so to have the opportunity to name these the ' Manufacturer-Field' is not specifically given to announce the manufacturer in terms of 'who created it and should be paid for and named for advertising purposes' ; It is meant as HINT to what system, with what conception internet-wide known as ... the short-named system is based on .

Simply said : React OS -- instead of M for Microsoft it would be R for ReactOs and the ReactOS system underlying would be defined after its equivalent by featureset and compatibility .


To your interception regarding ' Why not using a simple naming convention based on clear-text-names , like e.g.: WXPH -- Windows XP Professional Home -- 1.) Why should i name it XP , what the P is for ? -- meaning: One could think it stands for Professional, whereas there is no Professional Home edition ; So this short-naming might be misleading. also, there is no other system that is named with an x in the beginning ; well , yes and no ...

If you compare to the example of the Ubuntu system i have given ( GCLDUP5A ) - P stands for Precise ( because the naming convention of Ubuntu runs on alphabetical order since Dapper-Drake ) - that is for the Ubuntu Context ; but please compare how Apple named their systems : Mac OS was numbered until version 9 , then they switched to ( likewise Ubuntu ) a named version based on X ( for 10 - ask Rome for reasons why ... ) , though Apple is not using an alphabetical order, they resist to have identical Characters for their versions - so in the context of Apple MacOSX based systems Letters can be used ( M: Mountain Lion ; L Leopard ) ; For Fedora i tried to use the lettered versions also, but they were incoherent, so i am using a letter / single character for those OS where in context the letter stands for a number ( e.g.: Fedora 22 = V , because codenames are not in order ) ; I hope you get the tension of the aim of this scheme : IT IS NOT FOR EASY UNDERSTANDING INDEPENDENT OF KNOWLEDGE; IT IS FOR EASY UNDERSTANDING IN DEPENDENCY OF KNOWLODGE ; you might look at it as a secret token to understand quickly IF you know about the historical / chronological life of OS's )

To be more precise on the terms of NOT USING JUST ABBREVIATIONS FOR MICROSOFT OSs
: MicroSoft is a master in marketing so they really do know about the power of naming : But how can one use this knowledge ?

Example Win9x vs. Win NT
: If you think into it, you might see BMWN == BootMGR MicroSoft Windows NT and you say okay, plausible ; and you might agree that : NMWN513H == NTLDR MicroSoft Windows XP (NT 5.1) SP3 Home Edition fits that scheme ; but what about the 9x-Variants ; Well luckily ( because Microsoft is aware of the problems vs. benefits of naming a new system like an old one they did not release a Windows 9 ; Why ? Obvious, because it could have been slaughtered as a perfect reminder of Windows 95/98 ; so luckily I / We can use the 9 as a
( context-dependant because we know about this ) Family-Name ; like in : IMW950CD ( IO.SYS Microsoft Windows 95 Release/Retail/Gold C DeskTop ) or like in : IMW982ED ( IO.SYS MicroSoft Windows 98 SecondEdition Embedded Desktop [ a PCI-based So-To-Say Embedded Variant of Windows 98 for Kiosk / POS / Industry ) ;


However, you might get into it if you know about . If not , as in any other case leave it alone as there is a reason for it .

But wonder why: We have a Microsoft Windows 10 now.
and although it is just a Windows of the NT-Family there is a reason to NOT just number it 10 but emphasize its special ROLE ( how lucky i am that that fits into my scheme ! ) by lettering it X ;
Some thoughts on that :
MicroSoft Windows 10 is
: the first ever sotosay really : Rolling-Release-OS by MicroSoft
: is in its judgement a clear-cut and new-beginning of windows comparable to Apples switch to the MacOS X line of Products
: is a true revival and rebirth of techniques used in Win-Versions which seem to be forgotten but were always on the high-priority wishlist of MS-Develeopers and founders ( full-managed code / architecture-independent / ONE WINDOWS FOR ANY PC )
: combines nearly anything the mass ever wanted to kiss MS Ass for ( though i do not agree to the wishes of the mass in 99.9% of cases this is true )

... this is just to explain how much can hide in a simple short-naming like : BMWNXPIE ( BootMGR MicroSoft Windows NT 10 (X) Insider Preview EnterPrise or for those ( like me and possibly Wonko ) that like to experiment the newest of the newest BMWNXPDS ( BootMGR MicroSoft Windows NT X (10) Preview Developer Standard/Safe ) or BMWNXPDT ( ... Testing -- for those that run linux too - yes, windows officially runs in 2 flavours in the developer preview versions now - similar to the universes of debian and related -- testing vs. stable )


Whatever, bla bla blub bli blo ;


What i want to say is:

Wonko: A big thank you to you of me having the honour of having you as my first commenter ! truly - you're a legend - thank you .

All: Please don't try to change the scheme i proposed, instead try to think into it and think of possibilities and errors that might could happen in terms of misunderstanding or misleading lettering .


For sure: My scheme is sort of thought of : But i use it since 1999, so just believe that it is usable ; It is not intended as a vulgar display of power about the knowledge of all operating systems it is just : a scheme that makes itself remarkable and recognizable by announcing the differences of the OSs in aspect of their historical changes ; like a timeline in short-form.

Though i did not state the rules exactly, yet : Please try to understand the rules ; Name and define them as / how you understand them. Try to think / note the possibilities given by all systems you ever need to differ in your use-cases .

P.s.: wonko you stated that it is an 11-char premise on FAT ; sure, that's why i gave the hint of NETBIOS / SMB - Naming
: and in terms of bit-width of the systems - there are different ways to note them ; the most simple :
BMWN513H32
which will definately be interpreted as 32 bit
but in fact it is 3 for 3rd variant of x86-based bit-width ( namely 32 bit [cmp: 1=8 / 2=16 / 3=32 -Bits / 4=64 (PCI) / 5=128 (PCI-DL|AGP) / 6= (AGP4x|PCIE)|| used Data-Bus Bit-Width ] on 2 [ 2nd access-type/generation : read/write ( hdd/sd/cf::mbr/primary)-- recognized as hdd || 0=read-only/cd-rom 1=floppy 2=zip/hdd mbr-primary 3=mbr-logical 4=mbr-gpt-primary (hybrid-able)

... well, yeah : there is much more behind it, but please forget about this right now and just tinker with it and if you have fun by thinking out thingys, i would appreciate your loud-though efforts and especially the ways you think along this road .

Try to see it as a philosophical excourse about chronological entitling of operating-system-entities or much-simpler-said : HOW TO DENSE THE MOST ( BUT ONLY THE NEEDED ) INFO ABOUT OS INTO ( for now ... ) 8 CHARACTERS .


Have some fun ! :)

S466531257 BOSS
PAETH CLAUDIUSRAPHAEL


Edited by S466531257BOSS, 04 August 2015 - 09:06 PM.


#5 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 08:29 AM

Well, you can stamp your feet as hard as you want (and also cry very loud) :w00t:  :ph34r: but there is no way that anyone except you may possibly recognize shorted names like:

BMWNXPIE

BMWNXPDS

as anything but catalog numbers from a known German car manufacturer. :whistling:

 

This said, your encoding/naming is as good as anyone else's :), from that to somehow imply that it is by far superior to anyone else's and that it should be adopted as a new international standard there is a big leap.

 

If you prefer it is not nonsense but at the same time it is as nonsense as any other arbitrary naming convention.

 

As an example I call my Windows 8 "Henry" and my Windows 2000 "George", and it is good enough for me :smiling9:.

 

Using MW instead is IMNSHO a "coding error", it is redundant as you are using two characters without adding any information, as M (Microsoft) followed by an OS version or W (Windows) are enough, as you cannot seriously call anything Windows if it is not Microsoft Windows.

As well using the N (NT) is redundant as the OS version is enough to identify if it belongs to the NT family or not.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#6 S466531257BOSS

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:17 AM

@Wonko

 

: I got you :) And yep the most recognizable thing for my local customers that i have pushed into this lettering drama is 'BMW' ; They are lucky to easily remember that that is their Windows and that on the other hand the Linux' Systems they have available are lettered more complicated so they do not have a chance at all to remember how the systems are named that would give them the ability to rock up their setups. So in any case ' useful ' ... "Did i asked you to run that Kali-Thingy ?" | "Did i told you that CloneZilla comes after you if you want to play with it, or not ?"  :chair:

 

 

By the way ...

: the naming is used for direct boot of images from USB | HDD | HTTP | Hyper-V ( Domain as also workGroups ) that is why i am using it all over.

 

But the thought of having invented THE ULTIMATE INTERNATIONAL LETTERWAR sounds nice to me  :1st:

 

So Wonko, i know you are NOT WILLED but i try to tickle you again :

 

IF ( and only IF ) YOU would HAVE TO USE that scheme : HOW Would you NAME ( according to the GIVEN SCHEME ) for example :

 

A) Ubuntu Lucid Lynx Server R2

B) MicroSoft Windows Server 2012 Standard

C) MicroSoft Windows XP 64 Professional

 

???  :loleverybody:

 

Come on play the answer-though-nonsense-game :  :lamo:  ERNNNNNTTTTTT!

 

:clap:YES, YOU CAN  :good:  TRY IT  :idea:

 

 

I WISH YALL THE BEST  :alone: GOOD LUCK FELLAS

 

P.S.: If Mission is accomplished i'll spend virtual beer and virtual applause for the brave knights willed to fight for my right to screw up solid naming  :horse: .

 

 

P.P.S.:

 

MicroSoft do|did|does|DOS not call all their Operating Systems ' Windows ' and OS like ReactOS that are Windows-API-Layer-Compatible are in fact ' Windows'-Systems as ' designed ' by MicroSoft . --- Just to explain why MW is not redundant information .

 

Another example for a system running for decades until right now and even tomorrow : OS/2 | Warp

 

There are Variants of it, Though humbled together by IBM and MicroSoft there are Editions/Distribution/Flavors that are NOT IBM or NOT MicroSoft so the 'Manufacturer' is eminent in these cases to differ the systems as they are in parts incompatible to each other .

 

 

TANKS AGAINST YOUR INTEREST !

 

 

S466531257 BOSS

PAETH CLAUDIUSRAPHAEL

 

=NOTE

: Please Wonko be so kind to give it at least a shot; i am telling why this is important ( to me at a minimum ) after your trial of | against the scheme ; The most simple rules in deciding which letter represents what if more than one interpretation is available like e.g.: A for Apple or A for Amiga or A for Acorn is - What has the most impact internationally ; In all other cases : First comes , first shoots .

And to the versioning : Well Windows XP is Windows NT but Windows XP 64 is not Windows XP, it is Windows Server 2003, because Editions and Names are telling nothing about the layer behind like the Kernel in this case; But the Kernel decides what functions/features and capabilities/compatibilities are given .


Edited by S466531257BOSS, 05 August 2015 - 09:38 AM.


#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 10:13 AM

I will only say that you must have extremely patient customers... :whistling:

 

I am pretty sure that you have heaps of them wanting to run Amiga or Acorn images ...

... and of course A stands for Apollo (or for Aegis).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#8 Zoso

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 12:28 PM

hi S466531257BOSS, Wonko,

welcome to reboot.pro S466531257BOSS, this is symbolic! Ive recently started a minor study in ancient writing starting with hebrew. Aleph and Beth are the first two symbols and when combined, they form the "alpha-bet". and that is just beginning ;-) the codes/symbols seem to multiply fractals from there. might be worth a glance to you. its all code in the matrix.


Wonko, your suggestion is nearly exact to how I actually label the different images Ive made of various M$ OS's that Ive tried and experiment with in VMs except I add 00 at the end to the image taken just after first boot, then 01 for the next with some adjustments, the 02 for the next with more adjustments and so on.

#9 S466531257BOSS

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 12:52 PM

Damn, i took the pinky pill ...

 

Thanks for taking me seriously serious !  :hammer:

 

Nah, surely i am laughing my ass off. Okay, because YOU ALL WANT THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH

: I want to use that ( believe it or not - over a decade driving people crazy ) NAMING CONVENTION for a quick-dial inside a tiddly-wiki to find hints/infos faster ; So i am taking it to the next ( EVIL ) level ;

 

What wonders : Why is no one even trying to create a short-name on their own according to this wonderful shiny naming - thingy ???!?!?!  :confused1:

 

The greatest trick the boss ever made ... convincing the world the world didn't exist !  :devil:

 

Greetz from my matratze - :jump: uhm - matrice - :stretcher:  uhm - matrix  :hi:

 

May i seriously ask:

 

How many systems you do operate daily and how many for experimental purposes ? ( I wonder if i am a fanatic , whereas i ever thought i am just a wimp in comparison to the reboot.pro-'staff ...' )

 

P.s.: If i would have customers that want to have Acorn or Amiga Images i would kiss their ass ! Personally i dream of a Xerox Alto for me, myself and just I !

 

TANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST . :fool:

 

S466531257 BOSS

PAETH CLAUDIUSRAPHAEL

 

P.P.S.: About the Aleph in Beta-Stage i'm performing: It helps to know that i started programming by typing thousands of lines to then have an assembler and compiler in 37k ram to code software hacks into the CIA in mnemonic opcodes hiding secrets in the invisible space of a cathode ray beam controlled by interrupting non maskable interrupts ...  :crazyrocker:

 

... Sorry i was 10 and got hands on a BreadBox ... If that explains ...  :white_flag:


Edited by S466531257BOSS, 05 August 2015 - 01:01 PM.






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