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A few questions about installing Clover


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#1 AnonVendetta

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:34 AM

So, today I tried (briefly) to boot Windows via Clover on a USB, as suggested by Wonko. I saw steve6375's tutorial and read a bit. I used the BootDiskUtility to download Clover and install it to a formatted USB drive. I noted that the util created 2 partitions on the USB (what was on the 2nd partition, I'm not sure). The USB booted, I got the Clover GUI, and chose to boot Windows via EFI. The 7 logo appeared..............and hung up at the end of the logo. 2 more tries, it froze both times. I had to do an sfc /scannow upon using UEFI DUET to boot into Windows, a corrupt file was found and repaired, no issues so far, and there were no corrupt files before attempting to boot via the USB (I checked beforehand to be sure). So no big deal here................

 

However, what I'd like to try to do is to maybe replace DUET with Clover, since it's my understanding that Clover is basically DUET but with some fixed issues. It appears to me that steve6375 was trying to show how to boot Clover from USB to boot Easy2Boot UEFI payloads, which isn't what I'm after. I would like to install Clover into my EFI partition as a complete DUET replacement. I've decided that it will be necessary to continue booting 7 via DUET in the future, since 7 on my PC has issues when booted in real UEFI mode. My BIOS has an option to either enable UEFI or not, which is activated, and another option to prefer legacy boot over real UEFI. So I can leave UEFI activated, but DUET will still get first priority for booting if "legacy preferred" is the first option, native UEFI would only boot afterwards if a valid legacy boot option isnt available. Since both DUET and Clover are essentially booting via BIOS and not UEFI, then this should work. I am trying to set up my EFI partition in such a way that all other non-Windows OSes will boot in native UEFI, but leave Windows to be booted via DUET/Clover. I don't think milindsmart's approach to booting Windows on GPT via BIOS will be necessary. DUET accomplishes the same thing as what he is after, but in a much different way. I may still mess around with the approaches in his thread just because I can, but I don't see it as necessary.

 

So, how can I accomplish this? I'm just not sure of the steps to take. I'm only interested in tested Clover from a USB to see if it works and how reliable it will be, if it proves helpful then the next step is to transition it into the EFI so it can be auto-loaded from the disk on powerup. I'm not sure how I can get CLOVER/DUET to boot only when I want to use Windows, but boot in native UEFI otherwise for other OSes. I'm sure I can also install additional boot managers/loaders like GRUB2 (preferred) and Refind for this purpose. The ideal goal is to use either GRUB2 or Refind for native UEFI, possibly even chainloading Clover for use with Windows. And this could all be done without having to use F12 to manually select legacy/UEFI.

 

I read something about needing to install grub4dos into the protective MBR, Syslinux currently lives there for booting DUET. I dont mind replacing it but dont want to botch my partition table or EFI partition while doing so.

 

It's somewhat troubling to me that Clover failed to load Windows correctly, as well as the logo hang, even though DUET loads Windows reliably. Clover is supposed to be based on DUET. Maybe I just didnt do something correctly. I was glad to see that Clover has native mouse support, I have a Logitech trackball device and the cursor worked in Clover, although VERY slowly. Can this be fixed? And the theme was quite ugly, that would definitely need to be replaced, LOL.

 

Thanks for any advice on how to proceed...............

 

EDIT: Windows is currently installed on a Samsung 850 EVO SSD, and the boot mode is AHCI, not IDE or regular SATA. So if Clover doesn't support AHCI then it's a no-go. I know for certain that DUET works with AHCI, at least the latest builds do. I'm hoping this won't be an issue.


Edited by AnonVendetta, 06 July 2015 - 08:48 AM.


#2 AnonVendetta

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:09 PM

Just figured I'd say that this topic was mainly directed at steve6375, since he's the author of the tutorial I tried to follow. Although a reply from anyone with relevant info is fine. Maybe I should have sent a PM?

 

Edit: I gave it 2 more tries just now with the Clover USB, but this time around 7 booted successfully both times without hanging. All the guides I'm reading recommend installing Clover to/booting it from USB. And I'm sure that dimply copying its' file into the EFI wont be enough, since DUET itself had to first be chainloaded by Syslinux in the protective MBR. Since Clover is partly based on DUET and is meant to *start out* booting in BIOS, then surely there must be a "first mover" yhat kickstarts everything into action. But what loader should go in the PMBR? Syslinux? grub4dos? or anything I choose, as long as it knows how to find Clover?

 

Edit #2: I'm also thinking that perhaps it might be enough to use something like RMPrepUSB to install Grub4DOS boot code into the PMBR, then edit menu.lst (which presumably should be located in the EFI) to point to Clover?


Edited by AnonVendetta, 08 July 2015 - 01:54 PM.


#3 AnonVendetta

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 05:59 PM

I just tried to install Clover directly into my SSD's EFI partition, but the BootDiskUtility wouldnt allow it, not even with the "show fixed disks" (or similarly worded) option ticked. I also unticked the options to repartition/format the drive (obviously). But even after all the util stated that the operation wasnt allowed. And on the Clover wiki, instructions fot installing into the EFI are given for Mac and Linux, but the Windows section essentially states that Clover should only be installed to removable disks. It is as if Clover's creators and the util's author either A) believe that Windows as an OS isnt advanced enough and doesnt have advanced enough tools or B) believe that Windows is inferior. At the very least the util should offer the option to install into an internal disk's EFI as as advanced option for advanced users who are willing to take the risk and consequences of whatever difficulty may ensue. This certainly isnt giving me much encouragement. At least I was able to install UEFI DUET within minutes with a Linux live distro eith little difficulty.

 

I'm still not sure what, if anything, should be installed into the protective MBR, and if this must be GRUB4DOS, how to go about writing a config file (grub.lst?) to get Clover to be chainloaded.



#4 AnonVendetta

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 07:32 AM

I'm still looking for a way to install Clover into my EFI to replace UEFI DUET. I would like to use it as both a UEFI as well as legacy bootloader,and for emulated UEFI, since from what I've read it is capable of all 3, whereas DUET's capabilities seem to be limited to loading EFI files.

I was reading the Clover wiki and noticed that mention waa made of possibly needing to install PBR code into the EFI. However, for native UEFI booting this shouldn't be necessary, since it would be ignored. But if booting via emulated UEFI (DUET, which is essentially what Clover is, with changes) then it would seem that PBR code is also needed.

I'm just looking for a way to get Clover installed, but need to clear up some questions on the installation procedure.

#5 AnonVendetta

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 05:05 PM

I gave up on installing Clover for awhile, since no responses have been forthcoming, but decided to try again last night. I recently installed Windows 8.1 Pro alongside several Linux variants, and have an empty unformatted 100GB partition waiting on a Hackintosh (which I'm still working on and is a longer-term project). Besides having some advantages over UEFI DUET (and being mostly based on it but with improvements), Clover is desired because it seems to have the unique ability amongst EFI loaders that can boot Hackintosh (there may be others but I'm not aware of any others that can do this). The interface is nice and themable and can probably enable the use of a mouse (since a cursor appears but can't be moved, I'm just assuming that drivers/extensions plugins are needed). There are a lot of config options. And unlike DUET, Clover can be booted in emulated mode via BIOS/GPT, or native UEFI mode with its' own EFI loader files (whereas DUET is strictly an emulator and no EFI loader files of its' own). I would assume Clover can also chainload other bootloaders like GRUB2, Refind, etc.

 

As detailed at http://clover-wiki.z...rg/What-is-what and http://clover-wiki.z...al-installation, I downloaded Clover and extracted the EFI and BOOT folders (which I assume are supposed to go into the EFI partition), as well as the boot0AF (active partition first). Then I dumped my current protective MBR into a raw file. Opening both files in a hex editor reveals they (the files) are exactly 512 bytes, but Clover wiki says 440 bytes of the boot1AF file is needed (same for DUET). So I copied 440 bytes, pasted it into my MBR backup and replaced, leaving the last 62 bytes as-is (to prevent destroying my partition table and reinstalling OSes). Afterwards I used HDHacker to write the contents into my protective MBR, then rebooted. At this point DUET's Syslinux PMBR has been overwritten. My BIOS has the capability of loading *either* a legacy OS or UEFI OS, as long as UEFI is enabled in BIOS. Unlike some other BIOSes I've seen, which can only load in UEFI *or* BIOS/MBR mode at any given time, without necessitating changing BIOS options. If I remember correctly I selected to boot from HDD (rather than Windows Boot Manager, which is one of my BIOS's UEFI NVRAM entries), which forces loading in legacy mode. Some error about boot0AF came up in upper left corner on a black screen. My best guess is that it is looking for its' PBR sector contents/files(?) in the EFI partition. In native UEFI mode Clover's EFI file would be loaded directly, but in emulated mode it needs thru the BIOS>MBR>PBR>EFI loader file>OS routine. I'm trying to set it up so that I can use either boot mode, which seems possible.

 

I tried copying the EFI and BOOT folders into my EFI partition, and writing DUET back into the protective MBR, as well as backing up my current \EFI\BOOT\bootx64.EFI file. DUET loads Clover just fine, but I can't load Windows loader or my Windows encryption EFI bootloader (DUET loads these correctly), the screen just blinks for a second then drops back to Clover. Strangely enough, all my GRUB2/Linux loaders boot OK from Clover.

 

I had to omit writing Clover's PBR into my FAT32 EFI volume, since it isn't empty. I'm also uncertain exactly where in the FAT32 volume this would need to be written. If Clover's PBR is similar to DUET, then it is supposed to be written in the 'hidden sectors field', but I have no idea exactly where this is (which sectors). The PBR's raw file name is boot1f32 and boot1f32alt (depending on whether you want a 2 second pause when booting) and is 512 bytes. I prefer not to damage the FAT32 volume by writing to the hidden sectors in this way, since I'm not sure of the exact location, doing so may destroy the FAT32 filesystem and its' contents.

 

Thanks for any help/ideas!



#6 AnonVendetta

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:40 PM

I don't even know why I bothered posting this topic (or on this forum for that matter), since all 6 posts in this topic are by me and with no responses. It's like I'm posting to myself. This site gets very little traffic already and is probably struggling to maintain a presence on the Net. Wonko and AlexanderQ are the ones that initially suggested that I try Clover instead of DUET, but when I go to try to 'install' it it seems you need Mac just to run the installer, otherwise it must be installed manually, and the Clover wiki gives insufficient details. Steve6375's method of using GRUB4DOS is interesting but seems to be mainly geared toward removable media rather than permanent installation on an HDD. He also seems to busy to offer any info of actual usefulness, given that he is busy with other projects, so I can't/won't fault him for that (according to several PMs between us). I prefer not to use something like an outdated name like G4D anyway, instead preferring whatever original code the Clover authors are using. Grub was made by the same people that are Linux-oriented, and DOS is most closely associated with MS, since the 2 are enemies, it make zero sense why anyone would use G4D as the name. This would be like me founding a Christian church and calling it Satanists4Christ.

 

Clover wiki says, under 'PBR sector installation' and 'installation on a FAT32 partition (http://clover-wiki.z...or-installation), that "The PBR sector must contain the partition's geometry. This data is written when partitioning the drive and losing it will have consequences". What does this mean? It sounds like it means the partition's data structure integrity must be maintained, but what this signifies in plain English rather than Greek is beyond me. It must be in relation to *something*.

 

I also checked https://en.wikipedia...FAT_file_system, in an effort to find out where these reserved/hidden sectors are, but it's a long article and it seems there could be multiple locations (but only one that would be valid) of where Clover's PBR code would need to be written. I'm assuming Clover's PBR code would be similar to what DUET uses, as well as the location, so I obtained and extracted the DUET installer, then inspected the contents of some of the files in hex, then compared them to the hex of the sectors in my current EFI partition. I couldn't find any definitive matches, except for dozens of instances of patterns like '08 00', which is too generic. Maybe I'm not searching for the right hex values. Most of the extracted files were 512 bytes, the much larger ones I ruled out. And I'm not even certain the Clover/DUET installers uses/writes the entire contents of the file, probably only writing a portion of it.

 

If I eve get this right, maybe I'll write an install script for Windows/Linux (once my coding skills are polished enough), except I won't be giving credit where it is due or even a mention of where I got this idea from in the first place, since til now I've received the suggestion to use Clover from here but virtually no help from anyone here on this when I've made a genuine call for help and demonstrated a basic willingness to "do my homework". I suppose some things one must figure out on their own, and if this must be the case, then none deserves any mention/credit for an install script but me.

 

I disagree with one portion of the community forum's rules (http://reboot.pro/to...-site-policies/), under the section titled 'Copyright and ownership of user-generated media content':

 

By contributing to reboot.pro you grant us royalty-free, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive permission to publish, use or edit your entry or any media in any way deemed appropriate by us. 

 

It should be the at the sole discretion holder (and the poster, if they have permission) to determine how and where their content is used, so if I do publish a script, it will be in the form of a link to an external domain under my legal control, rather than a direct posting of it here. It is assinine for this site's founders to believe they suddenly have a right to use someone else's copyrighted content as they wish just because it is posted here, even if permission to post has been granted, and even if the poster is the owner. So I never plan to directly contribute any content to this site in the event that I create it, while still abiding by all the other rules. One must always maintain absolute control of their content, and the only way to ensure it is used (for the most part, since there will always be violators) as the owner wishes would be to limit where it appears, ideally also in places that are under the owner's direct control, and relatively free of outside influence, indebtedness to others, etc. It is also important to prohibit others from redistribution, granting only yourself this exclusive right, and possibly even going after anyone that does so without permission (attorney involvement, courts, DMCA violation/takedown notices, etc), if the offender doesn't comply with removal.



#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 09:05 AM

Well, what do you expect from Amnesty International? :w00t:

JFYI:

http://nunobrito1981...al-page-at.html


 

Clover wiki says, under 'PBR sector installation' and 'installation on a FAT32 partition (http://clover-wiki.z...or-installation), that "The PBR sector must contain the partition's geometry. This data is written when partitioning the drive and losing it will have consequences". What does this mean? It sounds like it means the partition's data structure integrity must be maintained, but what this signifies in plain English rather than Greek is beyond me. It must be in relation to *something*.

 

I also checked https://en.wikipedia...FAT_file_system, in an effort to find out where these reserved/hidden sectors are, but it's a long article and it seems there could be multiple locations (but only one that would be valid) of where Clover's PBR code would need to be written. I'm assuming Clover's PBR code would be similar to what DUET uses, as well as the location, so I obtained and extracted the DUET installer, then inspected the contents of some of the files in hex, then compared them to the hex of the sectors in my current EFI partition. I couldn't find any definitive matches, except for dozens of instances of patterns like '08 00', which is too generic. Maybe I'm not searching for the right hex values. Most of the extracted files were 512 bytes, the much larger ones I ruled out. And I'm not even certain the Clover/DUET installers uses/writes the entire contents of the file, probably only writing a portion of it.

 

Only about the PBR.

The PBR (Partition Boot Record often not entirely correctly called bootsector) or VBR (more accurate Volume Boot Record) is basically made of two parts, DATA and CODE.

The DATA in it contains a set usually reffered to as BPB or BIOS Parameter Block.

This set of data contains all the data pertaining to size and charactristics of the filesystem and includes the geometry of the media (on hard disk 99.999% 255/63) and the number of sectors in the volume (besides the sector size), it's offset on device, etc.

https://en.wikipedia...parameter_block

 

Of course these data needs to be accurate and valid, for the correct working of both the *whatever* bootloader/bootmanager and the OS, this seems ot me the essence of that note.

 

You might want to use and peruse the Starman's pages on VBR's:

http://thestarman.pc...r/index.html#BR

 

:duff:

Wonko






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