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WIMBoot for larger laptop drive

wimboot doublespace

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#1 geordieandy

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 01:58 PM

Hi all

 

I previously used the great tutorials and forums here to save some space on an Asus T100TA tablet I had but then used DoubleSpace which someone mentioned here and it worked great on a Dell tablet but I now have a normal Windows 8.1 laptop that I have swapped the 1TB 5400 drive for a 120GB SSD drive and want to reclaim some of this smaller SSD disk. Would people recommend DoubleSpace or trying to do a custom WimBoot on a normal Windows laptop?

 

I also read somewhere online about maybe using NTFS compression as well as WimBoot / DoubleSpace - is that advised?

 

Thanks



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 05:28 PM

...  but then used DoubleSpace which someone mentioned here and it worked great on a Dell tablet ...

Just for the record seemingly (your first and only post to date):

http://reboot.pro/to...betas/?p=186552

you came here coming from the Doublespace homepage, at the time the thingy was experimental/beta, and you BTW never reported anything here about it working.

 

As I see it (but I may well be wrong) the "right" use of a Wimboot (or Doublespace or similar) and as well of NTFS compression is something that is mostly in the eye of the beholder, i.e. there is not a one-size-fits-all recommendation that can be given, on one of the stupid tablet devices with a fixed (and not replaceable) SSD it makes a lot of sense, on a "normal" laptop I would rather buy a SSD with a size fitting my needs (whatever they are) than use any of these solutions.

 

Bear with me, please :).

You have a stupid tablet with a meager 32 Gb or 64 Gb non replaceable SSD and you have on it installed by the OEM a stupid 8/8.1 OS and additionally possibly a recovery partition (besides the "normal" WinRE).

 

The stupid OS + other stuff "from factory" takes (say) 20 Gb and considering that a "healthy" NTFS filesystem has a need for a 10-15% spare space, this means that if you can spare (say) 10 Gb out of the 20 you will have increased the available space for your files/content from (32*0.85)-20=7.2 Gb to 17.2 Gb, with a dramatic increase of 10/7.2=139%, but for the 64 Gb you would have (64*0.85)-20=34.4 and 10/34.4=29%.

 

The more the device is large and the more the amount you can save for the OS files by using Wimboot or similar becomes thinner, on a 120 Gb the increase is (120*0.85)-20=82 Gb and 10/82=12%.

 

For the rest of the files (i.e. your content) the difference between a compressed filesystem (plain or Doublespace or *whatever* ) and a "plain" non-compressed one depends on the actual nature of the content, if you want to store on the laptop (say) all the texts in Project Gutemberg, it is easy to double the capacity, if you plan to store almost only jpegs, movies and files downloaded from the internet as .pdf, .zip, .7z or .rar it is likely that the capacity will increase by 5% to 15%.

 

This means that the net effect on the 120 Gb could be anything between 40 Gb (50%*82) and 8 Gb (10%*82), most probably on average something like 25% to 30%.

 

So maybe your SSD that theoretically can hold 120-20-15 Gb=85 Gb of data, if compressed is likely to contain "virtually" (120-10-15)/0.75=127 Gb of data with an increase of 127/85=50% which is an exceptional result, but is it worth it (on a device on which you can actually replace the SSD)? :unsure:

 

Wimboot may affect boot time (how much and if positively or negatively depends on the specific hardware involved, a relatively slow processor and a relatively fast storage subsystem will have an advantage with non-compressed drives, a relatively fast processor and a relatively slow storage subsystem may give a definite advantage with Wimboot).

 

In case of "disaster" ( NOT hardware) a non compressed filesystem usually allows much, much more chances to recover data.

In case of "disaster" (hardware) there is not much difference, you won't get your data back in any case.

 

A 240 Gb will allow you (with no hassle at all) 240*0.85 -20 = 184 Gb i.e. 184/127=45% more capacity when compared to the above compressed 120 GB

 

A 120 Gb is now on tigerdirect as an example *anything* between (say) 55 and 110 US$

A 240 Gb is *anything* between 85 and 180 US$.

 

You can draw the conclusions by yourself, the 120 (compressed) has a cost per Gb between 55/127=0.43 and 110/127=0.87, the 240 Gb "plain" between 85/184=0.46 and  0.96, which in practice means that the cost per Gb is exactly the same, but in one solution there is an increased risk for the data integrity, on the other there are none and there is not the hassle of Wimboot/Doublespace/NTFS compression, and overall we are talking of 30 to 70 US $, if you do it for the fun of it, it's more than OK, if you value the time needed to research for the "right" solution, for the experimenting, for implementing it (and without any actual guarantee to reach the available size calculated) the total is obviously negative.

 

Of course sizes/occupation of the OS+ pre-installed OEM crap, actual level of compression achievable, prices of the hardware, etc. are only indicative, feel free to replace them with more accurate values from your experience or from other sources but the "template" for the cost/benefits evaluation should be accurate enough.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#3 geordieandy

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 05:51 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply Wonko.

 

Not sure what the "for the record..." bit was all about but I think I just used the tutorials here as well as other forums at the time (tablet pc review amongst others) without always logging in / saying thanks as WimBoot was new with 8.1 at the time and there were still a few kinks to iron out. I'm now looking to see whether there are any tools (ideally free) or easier tutorials to follow now others have been messing with this all for fun for a few months like I plan to do on this new laptop.

 

Btw I got the 120GB drive for free from another system so the cost per GB isn't really relevant to me but I take your points on board that the benefit diminishes the larger the drive and have seen 250GB SSD's on Amazon for £59.99 on flash sales but even that's £59.99 more than I want to pay  :thumbsup:



#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 06:50 PM

Btw I got the 120GB drive for free from another system so the cost per GB isn't really relevant to me but I take your points on board that the benefit diminishes the larger the drive and have seen 250GB SSD's on Amazon for £59.99 on flash sales but even that's £59.99 more than I want to pay  :thumbsup:

Yep :), then you are (just like me BTW) cheap (which is a good thing IMHO :thumbup:).

 

So you are (for external reasons, i.e. the amount of cash available or that you wish to spend on the project) in exactly the same situation as the hypothetic user with the stupid tablet, i.e. the owner of a device with a SSD that CANNOT be changed.

 

Using Wimboot/NTFS compression then starts (again) to make sense, the question is now (with a cashflow of exactly £ 0.00) is the risk/trouble of any of the possible compressions worth the handful of increased Gb?

I mean, do you plan to fill from day 0 the whole amount "recovered" through compression?

Or you plan to slowly collect files (only you knowing if any of the high compressible formats or the low to none compressible ones) in a period of (say) 1 year from now? 

 

If you go for DoubleSpace instead you might need to take into account the retail price for the license of Zipmagic (of course unless you managed to have one for free or really like the other features of the software and you would use it anyway, with or without making use of the Doublespace ).

 

To compress or not to compress?  :dubbio:

 

This is essentially a hamletic question....  only you can make the right choice... :)

 

:duff:

Wonko



#5 geordieandy

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 07:24 PM

I would prefer to be known as careful with my money or resourceful than cheap  :D

 

I'm not actually in a desperate need to use the space WimBoot or similar will give me but I'm looking to do it now as everything is now installed on the laptop and looking at the process as similar to when people do a system image backup once everything is set up if that makes sense?

 

As for DoubleSpace it would be great if you could just buy that part without all the other ZipMagic stuff which I don't want and actually didn't install (unticked) when trialling the beta many months ago but I can't see an option for this on their web site   :money:

 

I will read through the latest methods for doing it all myself on here and then see what works out more cost effective in terms of my time etc. Any pointers to the best and latest guide to rolling my own?



#6 alacran

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 01:43 AM

Take a look to this post http://reboot.pro/to...ot/#entry191800


Edited by alacran, 01 April 2015 - 04:09 PM.


#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 10:17 AM

@geordieandy

 

Let's agree on both of us being "judicious in expenditures" ;).

 

Link to tutorials for Wimboot here:

http://reboot.pro/to...e-boot-wimboot/

http://reboot.pro/to...mboot/?p=183792

 

If you want to use the built-in WinRE instead of creating a WinPE (with QuickPE - nice :thumbup: - or with other methods) you will need to read "between the lines" of this thread:

http://reboot.pro/to...fi-boot-issues/

 

:duff:

Wonko



#8 alacran

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:20 PM

@geordieandy

 

Info for Backup: http://reboot.pro/to...ot/#entry191801



#9 geordieandy

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:37 PM

Thanks all. I will try and read through all that over the Easter holiday weekend over here in the UK and report back if I manage to make any progress!







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